This was very well expressed. I have never seen the crazy nature of the arguments and politics of this situation. I you make these 12 million legal then they will have to be paid a normal wage. Which means they will be fired and another 12 million imported. The argument is that we can't criminalize 12 million people. Yet if 12 million people stopped paying taxes I would bet they could criminalize that action.

What I am most curious about is the fact that the legal immigrants are protesting with the illegal aliens. So this is not about immigration this is about nationalism. This is not "A Day without Immigrants". When is the MSM going to stop calling ILLEGAL ALIENS Immigrants? An Immigrant is a person who immigrated to this country after they have applied, interviewed and had a physical screening and was granted a resident alien card "green card". Most of us welcome Immigrants everyday in this country. As I have posted at several different times that my spouse is an immigrant now U.S. Citizen. Currently has two sisters and a brother who are waiting for Visa's to immigrate. What gives an illegal alien the right to jump ahead of those who have complied with all the requirements and are patiently waiting for their turn. This is mostly Mexicans looking out for Mexicans. Its about assimilating America to become a Latin country. And our Government is helping them do it. I am Pissed off at our elected officials that are more worried about the Hispanic vote than about doing whats right. The hyperbol about "They do the jobs that others won't do" is total B.S. did anyone offer a legal immigrant or American citizen those jobs and pay them an honest wage? I think not.

FP I agree with you. The jobs that Americans will not accept are those that are offered at below minimum wage as it is illegal to work in that situation. Otherwise, I think the jobs would readily be taken. If I remember, it is our elected officials that established the minimum wage. I voted for Bush and have voted steadily Republican, yet this and similar activity recently are making me hopping mad. The only thing is the alternative vote is immediate socialism. At least with the Republicans it is taking longer.

"It is a blight on this nation’s long history of accepting immigrants legally from other nations with open arms," apparently you've read nothing of the trials, tribulations, and discrimination almost every minority immigrant, from the Irish, and the Chinese, and Italian, to the story my own Grandfather told me of having rocks thrown at him and other newly arrived immigrants simply for being German.

Every time I read one of these dogmatic diatribes railing against the Hibernian hoards (beyond Gangs of New York references) I am stunned at the open ignorance and prejudice on display. There is no doubt these groups have an obligation to assimilate just as all our forefathers have. There is no doubt that the boarders should be more secure, and that we should know exactly who is coming in and out of our own country. But put blame where blame is due.

The reason these people are here is because our businesses and corporations want them here. It is the nature of the capitalist system to have to stay ahead of ever thinning profit margins buy trimming labor costs. If you can go lower than the other guy, lower than even minimum wage, you have a step ahead on the competition in the battle against economic natural selection.

Ask your homebuilder friend if the market would bare a house that cost twice as much as what it would with the use of immigrant labor. Sure, if you threw all the dirty foreigners out, there would be more jobs for the “Natives.” That is, until the market adjusted for increased manufacturing prices. Then the cycle starts. Increased prices, a downward trend in overall purchases. Less work, less overall pay, and less production. All that in a housing vacuum created by the deportation (or whatever craziness it is you guys are advocating this week) of 12 million immigrants. Go ahead throw them out. I for one will be amused to see the results.

P.S. Although co-opted by many different groups over the years, May Day is just another holiday, like Christmas, based on a Gaelic/Celtic astronomically based celebration.

Because the immigrants like to say this land is theirs anyway I would like to point out, Geronimo was at War with the Mexicans. Fighting the Mexican is where Geronimo became the great war Chief to his people. It was the Mexicans that were first to offer a bounty for scalps of Apache people. I can't speak for Geronimo but for all of the violence that the Mexicans inflicted on the Apache people I really can not see how he would be for any thing the Mexicans wanted.

Fred.

Many people have posted their disapproval about Illegal immigration. Part of the overall picture that has been mentioned time and time again was to place and enforce stiff fines against those who employ them. Allowing someone to break the law to get here and then protest loudly with walkouts, pickets, signs protesting the very country they are coming to for a better life is a huge slap in the face of those of us that live here and abide by the rules. It is also a slap in the face of those who have immigrated here the proper way, Legal way, with papers and everything. My grandparents did it the legal way, you know, the way the rules say you should. It took a little longer and they had to work a little harder but they got here LEGALLY.

I have no problems with those that come here the proper way. To allow those that broke the law to continue to cheat the system demeans us all.

Fred, do you think for one second that the price for a house will increase when the illegal worker is forced to leave. What, are you out of your mind?
I have never heard of a builder lowering his price because he is saving on labor. That is total Liberal B.S. Not one builder is going to tell you to your face that he pocketed 60k on your 250k house. Get real. Illegals are a blight on our society. They take the jobs that Vocational Trade School graduates can't get because, why you ask? Because some illegal who lives 10 to 15 to a one room shack will do it for $5.00/hr. So save the whole immigrant can't get a job, my Grandad got rocks thrown at him. Probably because we were in the middle of WWI or II. They are not Immigrants they are Illegal aliens. They need to leave. If they want to come back apply and get in line with all the other folks that are doing it the right way. This whole let them stay flies in the face of all the non-bordering visa applicants that cant just walk across the border. Amnesty begets another hoard of illegals running for the border draining our social system.

Fred perhaps the problem is the welfare state we have. If the Mexicans wanted to come here illegally I could care less. The problem lies in the fact that I have to pay taxes to support them. When they are legalized they will have to be employed at normal wage. At that point they will be fired. Those companies that were hiring them at below normal wage witll then import another 12 million workeres. In the mean time I am stuck paying the welfare tab for the original 12 million. You do not have to pick up each of the illegals to get them out of here. Start enforcing the law on the employers and convict a handful of the illegals as felons. In short order we will have movement back across the border.

With a builder like Toll Brothers running a P/E between 6 and 7, there's a LOT of room for them to "give a little" and still hold their prices.

Faithful Patriot,

Fred, do you think for one second that the price for a house will increase when the illegal worker is forced to leave.

Well, when I see, “I spoke to a homebuilder yesterday who told me that without illegal labor, his cost per square foot for framing a home would nearly double.” If you think hiring a crew being paid 100% of what they should be paid, instead of half working under the table at half rate wont effect the end cost, you don’t know much about business.

I have never heard of a builder lowering his price because he is saving on labor.

Me neither, nor did I suggest it.

Doc,

Fred perhaps the problem is the welfare state we have.

Perhaps it is.

Start enforcing the law on the employers and convict a handful of the illegals as felons. In short order we will have movement back across the border.

I agree 100%, still the problem lies with the corporations, not the illegals.

I gott a stick up for Fred on this one (Fred, get up. Fred?!?).

I've done my share of hammer swinging and wire-pulling personally (and badly) and know contractors and builders, and the price of labor increases, will necesarily be passed along to the consumer. That said, it won't double the cost of the home, either, becuase illegals don't do all the building, and in some places heavily represented by union labor, they might not do any at all.

I also agree with Fred if he is indeed suggesting that if folks wouldn't hire illegals, then they wouldn't be here. Make it financially unattractive for both employers of illegals and the illegals themselves, and they'll deport themselves back to Mexico if they find coming through legal channels is more attractive.

I'm not against immigration from Central and South America at all and respect their work eithic. I'd like to have them here working and contributing, but I demand that if you are going to come to my country, you must play by our rules, not those you decide to pick and choose from.

Re: picture.

Eeeeeeeuuuuuuwwwwwwghhhahhh!

Some of the work is attrocious. The illegals doing the sheetrock at the school I"m working on think nothing of ripping electrical boxes off the studs and/or shooting self-tappers into the mud rings (which penetrate the box, a distinct no-no) to hide their "modifications".

I've spent many hours repairing their damage.

I spoke to a homebuilder yesterday who told me that without illegal labor, his cost per square foot for framing a home would nearly double. In other words, that means that because of an artificial depression of labor costs, legal Americans in this trade are getting far less in wages than they should. Want to take a guess who hurts the most in this arrangement?

Of the things that the situation may be, I don't think it can be called "artificial"--indeed, it seems to me that it a very natural result of a pool of cheap labor coupled with the demand for them.

And certainly it is a mixed result: it also leads to cheaper houses, which is a benefit millions of Americans.

I spoke to a homebuilder yesterday who told me that without illegal labor, his cost per square foot for framing a home would nearly double. In other words, that means that because of an artificial depression of labor costs, legal Americans in this trade are getting far less in wages than they should. Want to take a guess who hurts the most in this arrangement?

Yes, it is a very natural result of a pool of cheap labour ... but at the same time it also is very much is artificial, in the sense that it feeds on the concepts of monetary wealth and (living) value having been disconnected. For this is a much broader issue than only that of which parts of a local economy are driven by immigrants, illegal or otherwise (and how to deal with a hidden reality). Underlying the whole thing is the concept that above all else a business should be competitive: but defining "competitive" increasingly and even only in the sense of producing high dividends ... regardless of whether those dividends happen to connect with anything of substance (aka Enron).

Ironically, simply by introducing shorter paths between supply-demand, whether or not those paths involved (illegal) immigrant labour: net costs to both supplier and customer would actually be lower, and it is not impossible that labour wages might rise as a side-consequence. (Check out the in-post link to the article on Katrina contracts: and note that it was neither labour nor the suppliers/contractors who most benefited.)

Do you think every builder hires illegal laborors?
So the premise of cheap labor cost = lower home prices does not equate. What you are saying is that a builder who uses skilled U.S. labor can't stay in business. I said it once I will say it again, "Not one single builder gives you an estimate on the cost of building a home based on a $5.00/hr. labor rate. The consumer is paying full skilled labor prices. What is happening is you would be cutting down on his profit margin.
That breeds competition! That would put them on an equal playing field.

G.K.Chesterton noted that in capitalism there is a logical contradiction. It subsists in the concept of an employer seeking to increase profits by paying as little for labor as possible.
The eventual result of this system is a populace that cannot afford to pay for the products its companies produce.
When this happens, the employers must seek cheaper labor markets (and cheaper materials) elsewhere.
In America's recent past (post WWII) that has meant seeking foreign sources for both.
With illegal aliens American businesses have not only imported the cheap materials, but the cheap labor.
Ergo, America is faced with the sorry fruit of the contradiction when you have most of the power (in a capitalist society read: monetary wealth) in the hands of the few.
The only way this can be changed is a redistribution of wealth, but not as a government mandate, but as a process of consumer action.
The solution:
Buy LOCAL and support the small owner as opposed to the Mega corporations.
It is local action of local peoples to support their neighbors, not governmen action or legislation t, that is needed to make the needed change.
Do it and see America transformed from within.