August 21, 2006
BBC Risks Lebanese Boy for Photo Op with Unexploded Bomb
It is horrific that they would risk a child's life by forcing him so close to an unexploded but still very much "live" bomb.
It is even worse that they admit it (my bold) (h/t LGF):
When Um Ali Mihdi returned to her home in the southern Lebanese city of Bint Jbeil two days ago, she found a 1,000lb (450kg) Israeli bomb lying unexploded in her living room.The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene for posterity.
The bomb came through the roof of the single-storey house and half-embedded itself into the floor, just missing the TV.
"Reluctantly" is correct. The Lebanese boy, wearing a blue tank top and jeans that hang on his thin frame, is visably leaning away from the unexploded ordinance, hands in pockets. That someone pushed him forward to be in such a picture, and that the BCC was willing to capitalize on this obvious bit of propaganda staging, going so far to admit it openly, is reprehensible.
This is an admittedly staged photo by an ostensibly professional and once-respected news organization. Martin Asser and any other BBC staff complicit in this event should be fired, without question.
Much to my disgust, the suicide of photojournalism continues at an every more dizzying pace.
Watch this video: He who lives by the bomb, dies by the bomb. (Click the video to start it.) : http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2006810232251.asp
Posted by: Nostradamus at August 21, 2006 02:54 PMHere in the States such behavior would warrant charges of Risk of Injury to a Minor, Reckless Endangerment, etc. All felonies.
Posted by: Specter at August 21, 2006 03:24 PMThe fin assembly appears to have detached (you can see a grove where it would clamp on, so what is that short pipe like looking thing sticking out the back?
I don't know of any Mk83 fin assemblies that would leave that there once they've gone away.
I don't think that's a real Mk83.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 21, 2006 03:51 PMFunny how you can suddenly muster up some outrage for the children of Lebanon when it's the dreaded Liberal Media putting their lives in danger, isn't it?
So, why is that missile even in their living room? Maybe there was a dead Hezbollah terrorist lying just out of shot.
Posted by: Flying Rodent at August 21, 2006 04:48 PMSo, why is that missile even in their living room?
Perhaps it was dragged there.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 21, 2006 05:13 PMToby928:
Maybe they used a hammer to knock the fins off, for effect. I'm sure someone here can PROVE it's a movie prop over here 10,000 miles away. Aparently there are a lot of ordinance experts on the net. As we all know nobody REALLY got bombed, nobody REALLY got killed, no little kids REALLY blown away. It's ALL just camera tricks.
I'm not an Air Force guy but the bomb looks like it's where it has fallen originally. And it looks unexploded.
I guess the US sould keep a better quality control on the bombs the manifacture.
Regards, F. Sgt. Alex
Posted by: Fisrt Sergeant Alex at August 21, 2006 06:34 PMrodent
maybe your wrath should be directed at those who started this war--Lebanon and Hezbollah. Or is that a little too straightforward for you?
Posted by: iconoclast at August 21, 2006 06:58 PMI'm not an Air Force guy but the bomb looks like it's where it has fallen originally.
Really? I would have thought that even 500lb duds would have made sufficent shockwaves to clear the room completely, but I'm no expert either.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 21, 2006 08:58 PMYeah, you're absolutely right, Tob, you're NO expert.
Posted by: Mike Meyer at August 21, 2006 11:03 PMI would have thought that even 500lb duds would have made sufficent shockwaves to clear the room completely
I've seen 180lb of *sand bags* make a pretty big crater going in from 1000' during prototype parachute tests where the chute in question didn't open...and this thing, claimed to be a "1000lb bomb" (which makes it a Mk83) is just sitting on some rubble?
Dubious. Very dubious.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 22, 2006 04:56 AMReal or staged (Looks real enough to me), the whole point is pushing the kid near it to take a picture. THAT, Mike and Rodent, is what is wrong with this picture.
Innocent people die in war, have since wars began, Lebonan doesn't like it, they can kick Hezbolla out since they started it. Isreal has every right to defend itself. Do you deny that?
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 22, 2006 05:21 AMAfter checking out with a munitions expert from Combat Engeneering we reached a conclusion that it might be an unexploded 203mm artilary round (that would explain the form, the fact is has no fins and the little "pipe-like" looking thing - the connection to the ignition capsule).
But if it's indeed a 203mm artilary shell then the building is iether 10 stories tall and this is the last, or it was dragged ito position.
But nothing can be said for sure.
Regards, F. Sgt. Alex
Posted by: First Sergeant Alex at August 22, 2006 05:25 AMTob, you're NO expert.
Its the capitalized NO that give it undisputed truthiness.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 09:30 AMWow, I hadn't realized how ridiculous this 'staged photo' ruckus had become.
Too bad the bomb couldn't have exploded when the kid was at home, eh?
I mean, is that the undertext here? Are you folks really that far out of touch, that you give more grief to somebody who took a photo of a boy next to a bomb in his house rather than to the people that shot it there?
I mean, wow, just wow.
Wah, you seem to be the one out of touch.
We are not saying too bad, we are saying that it was wrong to put the kid in danger to "Pose near the bomb" just for a stupid picture. Is that so hard to believe?
As far as who shot it there, read my earlier post, Hezbolla started it and in my opinion Isreal has every right to defend itself.
Putting the kid near the bomb for a publicity picture was dumb, dumb, dumb.
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 22, 2006 11:26 AMIt could be the kids livingroom, his TV.(Tob, note that I CAPITALIZED tv)
Retired Navy:
Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself, that doesn't mean the photos are lies, doesn't mean the wrong people don't get killed or the "right" ones do. Just means somebody IS gonna die, that's all. My opinion, only the luckest fucking moron in the world is going to drag a piece of unexploded ordinance anywhere and live.
Retired Navy,
First I am very much in touch, but we'll get to that later.
Your statement...We are not saying too bad, we are saying that it was wrong to put the kid in danger to "Pose near the bomb" just for a stupid picture.
And I'm saying that shooting a bomb into the kids house is putting him in quite a bit more danger than documenting the fact that a bomb was put into his house.
Is that so hard to believe?
Yes, it's very hard to believe. Why do you think I put so many "wow"s in my post about these rationalizations?
As to your "they started it" defense. I think that's a crap excuse for killing 1,300 civilians. My take on 'who started it' goes back at least six months for this latest thing*, and quite frankly, it's a moot point here.
The point I'm trying to make is that you folks have so wrapped yourself up in rationalizations, that you are now saying it is worse to take a picture of bomb in some kid's house than it is to shoot said bomb into said house.
That's ridiculous.
*The way I saw it unfolding... Hamas was democratically elected, they continued their rhetoric and homemade rocket attacks on Israeli settlements. Right about the time they were going to fold into the PLO (which has already explicitly recognized Israel's right to exist), a Palestinian family was blown to pieces on a beach. Then the first Israeli soldier was kidnapped in response, then the tanks rolled back into Gaza in response, and THEN Hezbollah did their raid in response...then Israel carried out an already planned military excursion to destroy Lebanon's infrastructure and to try to terrorize the Lebanese people into submission. Sorry, but chasing away nearly 1,000,000 civilians from their homes by destroying entire neighborhoods can only be called "terrorism"...at least by sane people.
Also, and I hate to point this out, but doesn't Lebanon also have the right to defend itself? Isn't that why Hezbollah has gotten so popular there lately? Isn't that why they exist? i.e. as a response to the nearly 20 year Isreali occupation.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 11:58 AMthen the tanks rolled back into Gaza in response, and THEN Hezbollah did their raid in response
Gaza is not a part of Hezbollah territory so that's BS on stilts. Regardless, in war people die, good people, bad people, innocent and guilty. The answer is to avoid war and if unavoidable, for the right side to win as quickly as possible.
Its one thing to be a pacifist but why you feel the need to tongue Hezzies' hole is beyond my understanding.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 12:48 PMIt would never cross your mind whya 1,000-lb. bomb was sitting in that particular living room, as opposed to one of millions of other dwellings and businesses in Lebanon untouched by Israeli bombs, would it?
No, it is much easier to pretend that the Israeli's were purposefully targeting Lebanese civilians. It is much easer than facing the well-documented physical evidence, including video footage of Hezbollah terrroists firing from residential areas, and then hiding their launchers in apartment building parking garages and the garages of individual homes.
You seem to have created a fantasy world for yourself where Hezbollah didn't fire more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli civilians, where Hezbollah didn't hide behind women and children, and where Isreal purposefully targeted little boys instead of terrorists. That simply is not reality, but what you would pick and choose from it.
The simple fact of the matter is that it is worse to knowingly force a child to pose with a large and armed explosive device than it is to drop that explosive device a suspected terrorist position. That is reality.
When your counterbattery radar, ground or airborne recon pinpoints a missile launch site, you kill it, as they are trying to kill your people. That is war.
None of us wishes harm on a child. But we live in the real world, where terrorists hide behind boys such as this, their sisters, and their mothers. You would excuse the terrorists for firing from behind a wall of noncombatant shields, and disallow Israel the right to defend itself. This is also an absurd position, enabling Hezbollah the right to fire on Israeli civilians without fear of reprisal. Of course, that might be perfectly acceptable in your world view.
I suspect that is the case.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 22, 2006 01:11 PMTob
Its one thing to be a pacifist but why you feel the need to tongue Hezzies' hole
It's obvious you aren't worth replying to. So I won't.
Confederate Yankee
True to your nick, your perspective is both dichotomous and hypocritical.
...as opposed to one of millions of other dwellings and businesses in Lebanon untouched by Israeli bombs, would it?
So your argument here as to why the BBC is "reprehensible" and "horrific" is because they found one of the houses that wasn't, but probably should have been destroyed by bombs, and took a photo of a kid next to the bomb that should have made this one of thousands of civilan structures destroyed as a response for the abduction of two soldiers? Also, you seem to think that no one should complain about civilian bombings in Lebanon because Israel didn't destroy the entire country.
No, it is much easier to pretend that the Israeli's were purposefully targeting Lebanese civilians.
Who is pretending? There are reports coming out that such is EXACTLY what Israel did.
"The Israeli military seems to consider anyone left in the area a combatant who is fair game for attack," Human Rights Executive Director Kenneth Roth said in a statement.
(The Qana attack) is the latest product of an indiscriminate bombing campaign that the Israel Defence Forces have waged in Lebanon", the statement said.Sorry, that's not quite right. They are accused (after analysis of the data) of "indiscriminate bombing", instead of your strawman of "purposefully targeting civilians". Although, in reality, they equate to the same thing."Indiscriminate bombing in Lebanon (is) a war crime", read the statement's headline.
Officer A: There's the target, but, umm, there are civilians there.
Officer B: Fire!
.. is pretty close to ...
Officer A: There's the target.
Officer B: Fire!
Now, of course all that changes depending on who's shooting, which is why I'm calling you a hypocrite.
You seem to have created a fantasy world for yourself where Hezbollah didn't fire more than 4,000 rockets at Israeli civilians, where Hezbollah didn't hide behind women and children, and where Isreal purposefully targeted little boys instead of terrorists.I see, so...despite killing more Israeli military personnel than civilians, Hezbollah was "firing rockets at Israeli civilians". And despite killing *VASTLY* more civilians than Hezbollah did, Israel still manged to kill *VASTLY* more civilians, AS A RATIO.
Your logic circuits are wired badly. When one looks at the data, it appears that (if part of the "good fight" in a war is to focus fire on military, rather than civilian infrastructure and personnel) Hezbollah fought a much more morally sound compaign. Which is horrific, as what has been designated a terrorist organization was fighting a cleaner war than an ally.
To reiterate:
Hezbollah kill ratio of civilans to military : 44 / 118 (over 2 to 1)
Israel kill ratio of civilians to military : ~1200 / ~200 (over 1 to 6..in the wrong direction).
Now, as to your simple fact.
The simple fact of the matter is that it is worse to knowingly force a child to pose with a large and armed explosive device than it is to drop that explosive device [on] a suspected terrorist position. That is reality.
You see that bolded part? That's the root of your hypocrisy. You accept the general claim that all of Lebanon is a "suspected terrorist position". Since it was all of Lebanon that got targeted, and Israel only targets terrorists, you obviously believe that all of Lebanon is fair game. And fair in a WAR game, means, well, as you mentioned all bets are off (so to speak).
Then you go off into even more ridiculous territory, where it's perfectly fine for Israel to fire on civilans, err terrorist suspects, in self-defense and then you look the other way when Israel carries out what would be considered terrorist acts had they been done by any other country, like...say, Iran. (try this...read that Human Rights Watch report, replace every mention of "Israel" with "Iran" and then tell me they aren't acting like terrorists. And don't miss this one, as well, just so you realize they are calling bullshit on ALL the bullshit.)
Also, you claim that Israel has a divine right to defend itself by bombing civilians areas, but neither Lebanon, nor the people who live there, has a similar divine right.
That's why you are a hypocrite.
Sorry to take so many words to explain the reasoning of your dichotomous view of the world. I know it will fall on deaf ears, but it's still worth a try every now and again.
Finally, your "suicide" links points out that it is things like saying that taking a picture of a kid next to a bomb is worse than dropping said bomb on said kid is what is "murdering" photojournalism. Did you even read the article?
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 03:57 PMIts one thing to be a pacifist but why you feel the need to tongue Hezzies' hole
It's obvious you aren't worth replying to. So I won't.
Can't is more the truth. Look here, you have a conflict between two groups, one, a democracy with full civil rights for its citizens of both genders, religions, sexual orientations, and nation of origin, a nation whose military wears uniforms, carries their weapons openly, and has a clear chain of command. vs A revanchist militia, shielding itself behind civilians while, as a policy, lauching unguided missles into civilian areas. You choose to side with the later, with the limp argument that because Hezbollah lacks the accuracy and the throw weight to kill thousands of jewish civilians this should rebound to their credit. Do you actually have any doubt, that if Hezbollah had missles with 100 times the explosive power they wouldn't be randomly shooting those? Ass, fool, thrice curse ninny. Do you really believe that there would even be a conflict, and hence civilian suffering, in Lebanon if Hezbollah left Israel alone. Israel left southern Lebanon because the cost of occupation was too high for them. I doubt they have any cravings to return.
As I said above, war is a hard hard thing and conflict breed hard and callous men, even in the IDF but there is simply no comparison between these parties as to their intent, aims, and official policies. For you to side with the punkass agressors here shows a level of masochism that would doom the West if it were commonplace.
You're not a humanitarian or anti-war, you're just on the other side.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 05:26 PMTob928
Good to see your folks let you back on the computer. Rest assured, once you get past puberty, you will actually be able to express an opinion on international politics without spitting. It doesn't mean you will, but you'll have the ability if you chose to use it.
The only coherent thought you have posted is near the end there. I'll address that.
Israel left southern Lebanon because the cost of occupation was too high for them.
They also took a few thousand prisoners during that 18-year occupation you kinda glossed over. Then there were the massacres.
Hence, there is an obvious reason (those thousands of prisoners taken during the occupation) for the resistance group that made the cost of occupation "too high" to continue it's self-defense attacks (yea, I'm using the...seemingly...popular rationale here that any offensive action is actually pre-emptive self-defense).
I doubt they have any cravings to return.
Obviously. Why else would they reduce the place to rubble?
And yes, I've little doubt that if Lebanon had been allowed to grow its democracy, and was given $5,000,000,000 worth of arms each year by some outside power, they would have done to Israel exactly what was done to them. And we'd be condemning them for their disproportionate response against a budding one-state democracy that let all the people who lived there vote, instead of huddling them onto reservations.
BTW, color-blindness is a disease, but there is some therapy. Given time and lots of patience and hard work, someday, maybe far in the future, but someday, you'll be able to see there are other colors than black and white.
Good luck with the puberty stuff, I know it's rough.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 06:18 PMNothing, zip, nada, vapor. I don't know how to categorize your fact free response. Rather than telling me why the Lebanese might wish to harm Jews, I was hoping that you would make a stab at telling me why you feel compelled to take the side of what is, for all intents and purposes, a mercenary army in the hire of Syria and Iran. I suspect its your judenhass but a little confirmation would be good.
As I'm probably old enough to be your grandfather, I should cut you some slack puppy, but I find that I'm less tolerant as I age. I have nothing but contempt for you and your kind. Able to bear the trappings of a civilized man but underneath, pure barbarian.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 22, 2006 06:31 PMdisproportionate response
Proportionate responses just encourage more of the same ad nauseam. "Disproportionate responses", wanton violence totally off the scale, settles disputes with finality (eg. Hiroshima/Nagasaki).
You don't see the Japanese getting uppity anymore and raping Nanking or anything unpleasant like that anymore do you?
Q.E.D. Disproportionate response is a good thing.
Proportionate response is a tool for mushbrained fools looking to engage in the next 100 years war.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 22, 2006 07:37 PMCan anyone logically explain how a "bomb" can be dropped from a plane and end up laying on top of the floor? Even if it were a dud, it would have penetrated the floor and buried itself deeply underground. Besides, it appears to NOT be an aircraft delivered bomb...at least one I've ever seen. *5 year Air Force Vet
Posted by: Doug Rodrigues at August 22, 2006 11:30 PMOle Tob
Rather than telling me why the Lebanese might wish to harm Jews [like those thousands of prisoners taken during an occupation and those, ya know, slaughters], I was hoping that you would make a stab at telling me why you feel compelled to take the side of what is, for all intents and purposes, a mercenary army in the hire of Syria and Iran.
I'm curious, what are all of your intents and purposes? Because from that perspective (the mercenary army one) guess who's mercenary army Israel is? And you know whose perspective that is?
You see this huge global affair, all tied to together, some vast conspiracy by the brown people to destroy the slightly less brown people.
I see people fighting for their lives. On both sides. What I see that you and the terrorists whose perspective you have adopted can't see is an end to this mess. A new generation that is ready to be one. To get along, and build a world together. In peace.
You can't see that because you probably won't live to see it. Sorry about that. But it's there. It's a long way off, now, at least another generation...thanks to the disastrous policies of those who are actually CALLING for a 100 year war. Yep, them damn neocons. The American Century of War (peace).
But we'll get over that blight, soon enough.
I'm sorry that all you see is global conspiracies, and off-white people gathering on your lawn.
If you get out of this echo chamber, and explore the interwebs a bit, talk to the kids, see what they see.
See what they don't see.
See how well we get along, across borders, cultures, religions, etc. You might be surprised to realize that we are all one people on this little rock, and you ... [string of expletives deleted]..assholes keep mongering for more war.
Keep excusing the uncexcusable, keep calling for the unimaginable (Purple Avenger, save some time, just post "glass parking lot" next time and I'll understand your [genocidal] philosophy precisely and with much less typing on your part), and keep glorying death.
You call me a barbarain. You old fool. Wake up.
The world has moved on.
/...and go judenhass yourself.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 11:40 PMit appears to NOT be an aircraft delivered bomb...at least one I've ever seen.
it's a 203mm artillery shell from what I understand*. They showed 'em firing a lot on CNN, but never really showed what it looks like when they land...at least not in real time.
/*could be wrong...about ths.
Posted by: wah at August 22, 2006 11:42 PMWah, I have been across borders. I have talked to the people in other countries around the globe. I have been there and see a lot of good people. I also, however, see a lot of 'bad' people. There truely are those out there that just don't like the 'west' or our ideas and oppose them at every turn, the worst being terrorism. It won't change in a generation because they keep recruiting as much as they can.
You may see it on the internet but on the planet, it just isn't there like you believe. How do you change a violent mindset when the people you are trying to get to understand democracy just don't believe you, don't want it (want to keep control), and because of beliefs/religion, believe you should either be subjucated or dead?
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 23, 2006 05:35 AMAnother vacuous and impotent post, serving only to hightlight your prefidious toadying to barbarism, Wah. Now you express a faux pox on both your houses moral preening that would have earned you a mere Feh! from me before but its too late. You've chosen your swamp to stand in, and any grasping for the high ground shows that you lack even the fortitude of your heinous allies.
I was born in the aftermath of one existential civilization war, lived to see another through to victory, and now find my nation involved in a third. Each time the West has had to suffer with your kind, twisted creatures so filled with loathing for themselves and their own culture that they would seek common cause with the vilest of thugs. An enemy without pity or conscience. Killers who kill grandmothers and their grandchildren with blind rocket fire, as a policy, and call it a victory. Shield themselves with noncombatants and when the innocent are inevitably killed, parade their sad corpses as a PR coup. Groups truly worth of the contempt of civilized men, deserving of the appellation Hosti Humani Generis and destined for a dogs's death.
Yankee runs a classy joint here and decorum prevents me from using the appropriate language to express my disgust with you and your kind of "progressive" bootlicker and your dreams of a judenfrei world. However, AOSHQ is auditioning for a new resident troll and this Friday, we will be commemorating The Wreck of the Hesperus. You can be the star attraction.
I appologies to the Yankee for my screed and have had my say. I can only plead that I lack the patience to suffer pretentious fools and lackeys anymore.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 23, 2006 09:04 AMRetired Navy
There truely are those out there that just don't like the 'west' or our ideas and oppose them at every turn, the worst being terrorism. It won't change in a generation because they keep recruiting as much as they can.
And there truly are people here calling for genocidal acts of mass destruction. And the teorrorists have been given a HUGE BOON in recruiting because we are following the neocon plan for 100 years of war and remaking the ME in our image. We have done exactly what OBL said we would do. As such, we've given their framing MASS amounts of evidence to support it.
The reaction there is much the same as that of people here worried about the oxymoronic phrase "islamo-fascism". People see an outside threat, and support those they think are best equipped to fight it. This is why radical Islam doesn't fear elections, it wins them. And why radical militarism won the last major election here.
How do you change a violent mindset when the people you are trying to get to understand democracy just don't believe you, don't want it (want to keep control), and because of beliefs/religion, believe you should either be subjucated or dead?
It's not "democracy" we want to export. That, they understand just fine. What we really want to export is "liberalism" (which you folks hate, I know...kinda ironic, eh?). And by "liberalism" I mean in the classic sense of equal rights for women and minorities. The rule of law, balance of power, peaceful transition of power, etc. All the things that people who hate liberals hate.
Only the fundies (much like the ones here) want to convert or kill everyone. The strategy should have been to avoid ultra-violent means, as that only radicalizes a people and causes they to gravitate towards to same violent types ind defense. The strategy should have been to build, not destroy.
We had a great opportunity to do this in Afghanistan. To rebuild a country that was destroyed fighting commies. Instead, the energy interests realized we now could whip up the fear to support an occupation of Iraq...and we've all seen how wonderful that tangent has worked out.
The general strategy should have been to marginalize the radicals, not lionize them and make their power seem great. To build real, and physical, and lasting solutions to the problems we all face (transportation, education, health care), rather than trying to Shock and Awe a population into submission.
But the neocon strategy was used, and now we've got another generation of people, sitting at home, staring at Western bombs in their living rooms....wondering...who is going to protect me from those savages...
Tob
You're drooling again. Wipe that up.
Posted by: wah at August 23, 2006 01:51 PMYou're drooling again. Wipe that up.
In a battle of wits, you are truly unarmed.
Tob
Posted by: Toby928 at August 23, 2006 03:16 PMThey may understand Democracy just fine, but Liberalism is not just understood by them, but is being used as a weapon against us. They play the news, liberal politics, and bleeding heart strategy every chance they get.
Afganistan is still being rebuilt, it doesn't happen over night.
The 'Neocon' Stragegy may need work, but what ideas came from the lib side? Other than patting them on the head and giving them everything they want?
I don't relish the idea of killing anyone but if it comes down to our (U.S.) way of life and our very lives itself, or them, I choose us.
Iraq has been unstable since, ever. We didn't make it that way. There have been overthrown dictators there since the turn of the century. Saddam was just the last one (and hopefully the last) in a long line.
Wars between Democratic nations don't really happen. Look at history and find one that happened between two Democratic nations. When they become Democratic over there it will be a boon to the world.
Posted by: Retired Navy at August 24, 2006 05:51 AMWhat Wah is trying to say is, that WE as the west need to understand the loving, tolerant, peacful ways of Islam and to open our arms and except it as the one true religion. To be led like sheep and be assimilated into that most wonderous of religions and live in paradise. Where you have no rights or freedoms, could almost certainly be killed for having pemarital sex, sliting you own son or daughters throats because they wanted to marry someone of their own choosing. Be beaten by the religious police for not praying when your are called to prayer or they saw your ankle underneath your burka. Woman have absolutly no rights and are forbidden to be educated. BTW it is a death sentence to own a Christian Bible. So let me tell you something you ignominious POS I have no tolerance left in me for your version of nirvana. I have no desire to lay down with the wolves. Their goal is total world domination not to just be excepted and left alone, but to rule the planet under one religion. No freedom of choice, No elected officials, No Freedom of speech BTW you seem to enjoy. How ignorant are you of the world and its history? We cannot let them have it their way. History is repeating itself. This is slow global domination, no different than Hitler or Stalin, Isreal no matter how you look at it through your severe dementia is fighting for its existence. Its a tiny country surrounded by wolves. Those same wolves that let their innocents be killed by placing them in harms way. Then praise a lunatic like Nassrallah, as a hero. You know why? Because somebody makes damn sure they say the right thing or else. Fear like it or not gets results. Remember "Oil for Food" that did alot of good, Sadaam bought weapons. YOU need to understand the ME culture not I. I understand it, you would much rather have them at your feet than your throat. Your bloviating and spinning the facts will not hold up in the court of world opinion. Iraq will be a democratic country someday, like Retired Navy stated your are not going to change a mindset overnight. If Iran and Syria would stop supporting the insurgency and propping up the likes of Al Sadr and Nassrallah this would be over.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at August 24, 2006 07:03 AMwah -
"Only the fundies (much like the ones here) want to convert or kill everyone"
Did I miss something or is this not the expressed goal of Hezbollah when it comes to the Jews or us for that matter
Your thoughts are that they Israel should try
"To build real, and physical, and lasting solutions to the problems we all face (transportation, education, health care)"
Would Hezbollah accept a single cent towards this goal from Israel? How can Israel be expected to build educational facilities in a country that allows terrorists to lob rockets into their country.
Let me guess, if we just apologies to al-Qaeda and build them some roads and schools they will like us again and not want to convert the entire world to Islam, and destroy al infidels as is dictated to them by their interpretation of the Koran?
