September 18, 2006

Noting the Differences

A British Muslim extremist named Anjem Choudary is stating that Pope Benedict XVI should face execution for quoting from a conversation between 14th Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel II Paleologos and an educated Persian.

The Pope's speech—a lecture on faith and reason—was a call for a reasoned synergy between faith and science to complete the human soul, and a reasoned dialogue between faiths. Islam has responded with riots around the world, the burning of no less than seven churches thus far, and the murder of a Catholic nun. A reasoned call for a lifestyle balancing secular science and theology has been responded to with unreasoning hatred, including calls for Jihad by al Qaeda and "moderate" Muslims alike.

Pope Benedict XVI called for reason and dialogue between faiths, and worldwide, Islam has responded with violence and the threats of violence, a point not lost on the Archbishop of Sydney:

Cardinal George Pell says "the violent reactions in many parts of the Islamic world" to a speech by Pope Benedict justified one of the main fears expressed by the world's Catholic leader.

"They showed the link for many Islamists between religion and violence, their refusal to respond to criticism with rational arguments, but only with demonstrations, threats and actual violence," Cardinal Pell said in a statement yesterday.

Once upon a time, I was under the belief that Islam was a rational faith, and that those that carried out violent attacks in the name of Islam misunderstood their own faith. It was both presumptuous and ignorant for me to make that assumption, as I see it now reflected in response to a call for reason from a man of God.

The violent acts carried out by Islamists—and the near-total silence from what we like to think is a majority of moderate Muslims—has ended the last illusions about Islam for many around the world. Our eyes are opening to see that Muslims seek not dialogue, but domination. Pope Benedict seeks reciprocity and respect between faiths, and Muslims are responding with attempts at intimidation. We see now that these calls for violence are not a minority viewpoint, but a sincere and troubling part of their core beliefs.

Islam means "submission," and one billion people who practice the faith seem intent on making the other five billion people on this plant submit to their views. Their desire for domination of the world by their increasingly irrational faith shows that it is they, not the West, that seeks to engage in a Holy War. They would be wise to reconsider their views.

The original Crusades saw Christian and Muslim armies that were technologically equals. That equality no longer exists today, and the military superiority of the West over the Islamic world is pronounced. To date, Western reason shaped by Judeo-Christian compassion has prevented us from using our military supremacy to forcefully thwart Islamist plans for world domination with our full might, but our decision to hold that power in check is not without limits.

If practitioners of the Muslim faith think that they can exert their will unchecked through the most violent of means without facing an earthly reckoning beyond their comprehension, they are sadly mistaken. Our rational beliefs have had us regarding Islam as a possible threat to be dealt with surgically, but not one yet worth acting against generally with our full military might.

One act of sufficient scope and horror would change the calculus of the equation. Islamists seem to sincerely believe that nations shaped by Judeo-Christian beliefs are soft, and that we will fall quickly if they act with sufficient aggression and callousness against those they see as infidels.

Islamic leaders should reconsider the ramifications of the widespread Jihad they call for against the West. If they provoke us sufficiently, the same reason that has had us hold ourselves in check to date will dictate that that restraint we have practiced is counterproductive to our continued existence, and Islam will not see another century.

We are not weak, but reasoned, and the Muslims of the world crying for violent Jihad against would be wise to note the difference.

Posted by Confederate Yankee at September 18, 2006 11:10 AM | TrackBack

Whoa there, CY! Aren't you doing a disservice to the moderate Muslims throughout the world in much the same way as the radical Muslims are painting all Christians as enemies of Islam?

Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 11:51 AM

"Whoa there, CY! Aren't you doing a disservice to the moderate Muslims throughout the world in much the same way as the radical Muslims are painting all Christians as enemies of Islam?"--RS

Ummm,no. What he appears to actually be saying is that there are NO 'moderates' worth worrying about. A viewpoint that "objective reality" is demonstrating on a more or less daily basis. Those whom the West considers to be 'moderate' are in fact more likely to be described as 'apostates' by the real powers in the Ummah.

If Islam does not want to be tarred by the demonization brush perhaps it should stop demonizing itself so handily.

Posted by: dougf at September 18, 2006 12:10 PM

RS, Maybe he is but until there is outcry coming from the mainstream moderates, how do we know where they really stand? Zain tried to make many valid points but when I keep seeing things like this go on in the world, it make me wonder as well. I am reaching my limit as well. I know there are good people out there and have met some in my travels, they need to get together and end this now before it boils over.

The Pope said nothing wrong, it was a Quote they were happy to take out of context and in doing so, killed an innocent Nun and set fire to some Churches, not tolerant, peaceful, or neighborly of them. It needs to stop. I know you agree, just wondering where your limit is?

Posted by: Retired Navy at September 18, 2006 12:12 PM

Oh. I see. ALL of those 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world are complicit in the radical lunacy of the minority ...

That surely clears that up for me.

Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 12:14 PM

One of the biggest problems I see in all this is that the main stream media is more interested in selling advertising and in selling newspapers than in publishing the words of the moderate Muslms. One such moderate was just on Fox News. Another was on the Heartland Show Saturday night with John Kasech. Even the Imam who appeared moments ago commented on the bravery of Fox News to give a platform to moderate, thinking Muslims.

Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 12:21 PM

We see what we see. It is exactly what the media wants us to see. It does not represent the whole truth.

Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 12:23 PM

You have a good point about the news not portraying everything and it should be shown more. I still believe that the extremists that go overboard are doing far far greater damage to any "peace" the religion had to offer. Even if you take the warped news into account.

Where will it go if they actually make an attempt on the Pope's life? Or even succeed for that matter?

My point is it has gone too far, the moderates in the religion have a better chance of doing anything than outsiders do. If more is being done, then I would like to see that in the news/blogs/public displays. It's a huge powder keg waiting for a spark, water needs to be put on it and those closer to the problem have a better chance of dousing the flame.

Posted by: Retired Navy at September 18, 2006 12:45 PM

Aren't you doing a disservice to the moderate Muslims throughout the world

Where are their voices siding with the pope's analysis?

*chirp* *chirp*

Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 12:49 PM

Oh. I see. ALL of those 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world are complicit in the radical lunacy of the minority ...RS

Problem is even if that "small" minority consists of
10-20%, that is alot of extremists.

And yes, they are swimming in the moderate's pool.

Posted by: USASamurai at September 18, 2006 12:50 PM


I'm not sure what evidence exists of all those "moderate" muslims. I have been hearing about the "moderate" Muslim since 9/11. I have yet to see any real evidence of this phenomena.

Yes, there is occassionally someone who appears on a western news station and utters "moderate" things, but it seems - based on the evidence at hand - that such individuals (and for this response I am not going to point out that many of the "moderates" say much different things when speaking in their own language and to their own c0-religionists) are a small minority, and do not represent main-stream islam.

I will not cite to any specific evidence here to support my thesis, as it is amply demonstrated, I believe, in the actions and words of muslims (including many of the muslim religious and political leaders) around the world.

What I would like, is for someone to show me ANY evidence of a majority (or even a sizeable minority) of "moderate" muslims.

[And, I suppose, we will probably need to have a debate on what constitutes a "moderate" muslim. I think people are equating those muslims who don't ACTIVELY engage in violence or calls for violence as "moderate". I'm not sure that is remotely accurate].

Now, if the "moderate" muslim does exist, then surely, such an individual would not be mad a CY for making what is a reasonable analysis based upon the evidence, but would instead be angry at those "extremists" who have "hijacked" their religion. Somehow, that is never the response we get from the "moderates."

Instead, the argument is always, you cannot say anything bad about islam, or else we will lose the "moderate" muslims and the violence will only increase. We should fear this result, b/c, I suppose, we have received soooo much support from them up to now.

I view the "Moderate" muslim like Sinn Fien is to the IRA. An alleged rational and reasonable group that keeps the crazies from really getting violent. Kind of a good cop / bad cop game. Here's how it works, someone says something bad about islam. Violence and calls for more violence ensues. the moderate muslim gets on TV and says, yes, violence is bad, but they have a reason to be angry - you really should apologize and refrain from ever saying anything bad about islam again. If the west does not back down, more violence, if the west backs down, we do so to appease the "moderate" muslims, not the crazies.

- GB

Posted by: Great Banana at September 18, 2006 01:20 PM

A true Moderate would understand that it is only a difference of opinion and be (tolerant) of the fact that everyone has the right to have a difference of opinion. They would also have a sense of (Forgivenes) for the non-believers. They would (love) us even though we do not worship the way they do. That killing in the name of your religion would be considered savage and unconscionable, that the murder and mayhem associated with that most (peaceful) of all religions would be condemed by the rest of the world. So if the moderate Muslim (if there is such a thing) need to stand up and be counted. They need to have counter protests by the hundreds of thousands. Until such time we need to have a posture of Offense instead of Defense. Take it to them Hard and Unceasing until they decide that it is better to get along with others. Not threaten your fellow man with forced religion or death. Truely be the religion of Peace, Tolerance and Love.

Posted by: Faithful Patriot at September 18, 2006 01:43 PM

I saw a few numbers some months ago that said 10 to 15% of Muslims have terrorists leanings or are actively engaged in the process. Another 70% were sympathetic to their efforts.

This seems to correlate with what I see at work. I am at a large public hospital in Louisiana. We have a large number of foreign doctors. When you discuss these issues with this highly educated bunch, they still see reason in the terrorist activities.

I am with a number of you. I do not hear voices of complaint from other Muslim groups about the actions of the terrorist. In the legal field if you do not say anything, you consent to the action.

Do you think that despite all that has happened in the last several years, we will look back on the Pope's remarks and attribute them to the beginning of WWIII (think of what would happen if they actually kill him)??

Posted by: David Caskey at September 18, 2006 01:55 PM

"Why the Pope Apologized"
at RightLinx

Posted by: McCain at September 18, 2006 02:24 PM

These moderates need to be gathering in large numbers to protest the of killing innocents in the name of their religion. Where are those protests? Has there been a demonstration from all the people the murdered Nun has helped in Somolia? Anyone? I know in Dearborn MI there was a large demonstration for hezbola not to long ago. Plenty of "moderates" got out for that event. Are those "Not in my name" folks moderate Mulsims saying not to wage war in the name of Islam? I didnt think so.

Posted by: Jeff at September 18, 2006 02:36 PM

Hey CY...your trackback link is broke! Thought you might wanna know.

Great post...well thought out and well said.

Posted by: Buck at September 18, 2006 02:41 PM

ALL of those 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world are complicit in the radical lunacy of the minority

That there aren't more dimes being dropped pretty much confirms this. IMO, turning a blind eye is substantially similar to complicity.

To be fair, there are some dimes being dropped, but not nearly as many as one might expect if the majority were truly against the terrorists.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 02:59 PM

I agree with CY on this one...
And I state this due to this I read today:

I noted, especially, the part in which he announces his FEAR of speaking his 'moderate' views.. the fear that Salman Rushdi also faced...

Which seems to correlate with other comments about 1.2billion and 10-20 percent... if less than a majority can control the narrative...
Is there really a true 'moderate' or just another Nazi prison camp guard sending folks into ovens becuse 'he was just following orders'....

Silence speaks volumes.... just as loudly spoken words.. and flaming ephigies do.

Posted by: Darrell Gregg at September 18, 2006 06:44 PM

I love it! You guys are actually thinking all this through to arrive at reasoned assessments.

It is fun to play the Devil's advocate from time to time .....

Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 08:31 PM

Is there really a true 'moderate'

If you've read the Koran as I have, the answer is plainly no. A "moderate" making their feeling known could be legitimately executed as apostate.

Unlike the bible to christians, the koran is to Muslims the literal word of god, perfect in every way and unchallengable. If you buck what is said in the koran you are by definition apostate.

In a manner of speaking, Islam controls its own faithful through a form of terror.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 11:32 PM

So the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is visiting with President Bush and the Prince begins to complain about Star Trek of all things.

"What is wrong with Star Trek?" asks a puzzled President Bush.

"Always it is showing people of different races, different planets. It shows Blacks. It showes Jews. It shows Russians. It shows Chinese. It shows Hindu's. Why does it never show Muslims or Arabs?"

"Oh," says President Bush, "That's simple. You see Prince, Star Trek is a show about the future. . ."

Posted by: MFB at September 18, 2006 11:47 PM

*still laughing at MFB*. A classic.

Posted by: Atticus_NC at September 19, 2006 04:48 AM