March 14, 2008
Wright and Obama: It Only Gets Worse
The Wall Street Journal has published yet another damning sermon from Barack Obama's retiring minister of two decades, Jeremiah Wright.
The displaced anger, bigotry, and hatred displayed is chilling:
"We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he began. "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."Mr. Wright thundered on: "America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. . . . We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns, and the training of professional killers . . . We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children while trying to get public opinion turned against Castro and Ghadhafi . . . We put [Nelson] Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."
His voice rising, Mr. Wright said, "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. . . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . ."
Concluding, Mr. Wright said: "We started the AIDS virus . . . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . ."
As the story of Wright's forceful bigotry finally forced it's way into the mainstream media yesterday at ABC News with the story Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11, the people Barack Obama has chosen to surround himself with has come under sharp focus.
From a self-isolated, self-pitying wife, to a bombastic, bigoted minister, to an unreformed terrorist, Barack Obama has surrounded himself with very questionable ideological company, associations from which he has no defense. He wasn't forced to chose to spend time with this cadre of believers on the radical fringe, he embraced them willingly.
Predictably, as the media has come to focus on Obama's two-decade relationship with Wright, Obama supporters have been quick to attempt to minimize the damage. Unable to do it with a forceful denunciation of Wright's bigotry by Obama (Obama has only uttered the lamest of excuses), they have instead attempted to tar Republican candidate John McCain as being equally bad, for the support he has garnered from controversial evangelists Rod Parsley and John Hagee.
For those of you unfamiliar with these men, Parsley's most famous controversial statements include calling Islam a "false religion" that must be destroyed, opposition same-sex marriage, partial-birth abortion, hate-crimes legislation, and the separation of church and state. Hagee has been ripped an an anti-Catholic bigot, stated that Hurricane Katrina was an act of God against New Orleans for the city's "level of sin," and for claiming that the Qur'an has "a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews."
There, of course, is a difference between John McCain's political endorsements by Parsley and Hagee, and Barack Obama's 20 years of willfully absorbing Wright's hatred, a toxicity to which he has willfully exposed family.
I addressed this attempt to equivilate Obama and McCain in a comment to the ABC News blog story Obama camp: 'Deplores divisive statements', which featured yet another inflammatory speech by Wright.
My comment read:
I see that some are already attempting to trot out a comparative argument, that Wright's offensive, bigoted, and paranoid rants are somehow lessened by invoking John McCain's support from John Hagee and Rod Parsley, two prominent evangelists who have also made provocative statements.But here is the huge gaping difference between these attempts: Barack Obama has spent the better part of the past 20 years of his life listening to, absorbing, and yes, agreeing with Wright's sermons. If he did not agree with the bulk of those sermons, he would have of course left Trinity for another church--finding a church in Chicago that closely fits your own personal beliefs is not at all difficult, and Obama obviously agrees with Wright far more than he disagrees.
That Obama has spent 20 years listening to Wright, thought enough of him to use one of those sermons as the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope," that he was married by Wright, had both of his children baptized by Wright and brought up in this church, listening to these paranoid and racist rants that differ little in substance from the words of a much more famous racist, Louis Farakkan, means that Obama AGREES with Wright far more often than he disagrees with him.
From that, what are we to make of Obama? Actions, indeed, do speak louder than flaccid conciliatory words that have only just now been uttered.
I say again the obvious: no American would spend 20 years listening to a minister with which he vehemently disagreed.
McCain, by comparison, is guilty of pandering to Haggee and Parsley because of the (unfortunate) influence they have over a powerful voting demographic.
I can find scant evidence that McCain has sat though one sermon from Hagee or Parsley, much less 20 years of them.
Which is worse?
The politician that panders for votes, or the man who has listened to and internalized anti-American, anti-Jewish, and anti-white messages for 20 years before ever once publicly disagreeing with them, and who is raising his children in this same toxic environment?
Not only am I certain Barack Obama is unfit to run this nation, I now question his ability to raise his own children, for the hatred he has willingly exposed them to since their births.
Yes, I went there. Read again Wright's rant in the WSJ article featured above, or some of his other hate speech (for that is what it is), and try to explain to me that a good parent exposes his children to an environment that exudes such naked anger, resentment, defeatism, and conspiratorial paranoia.
Perhaps some of you are comfortable having your children raised in such an environment, but I am not, and I do not think that someone who willingly exposes himself and his family to internalizing such vitriol for 20 years is the kind of person we need or want to lead this nation.
The comments of his wife and his spiritual adviser is very disturbing. What I don't understand is how a man and his wife, who are upper class, can feel so persecuted.
When the Republicans nominated McCain I swore I would never vote for him. Obama or Hillary placed on the ballot forces me to reverse my pledge.
Are there no leaders in American politics anymore?
Ladies and gentlemen, this man WILL be called on to advise a President Obama.
Posted by: Techie at March 14, 2008 11:07 AMSo the question is - who is the real Obama? Is he the sunny, post-racial hoper, or is he the ideological confederate of his wife, his pastor and William Ayers? His voting record makes it clear that on policy he is a left-wing doctrinaire Democrat, but his appeal has been that he doesn't actually hate republicans like Hilary or Nacy Pelosi, he just diagrees with them, but can work to find compromises - but is this even true, or is he just a big smiley face pasted on a cauldron of hate and grievance? And if he loses to either HRC or the Maverick, will that just be proof of a conspiracy to deny him his rightful place (well, with the Hillabeast he might have a point....)?
Posted by: holdfast at March 14, 2008 11:20 AMExcellent post.
Might I add an obvious point--that in addition to being racist, bigoted, anti-Semitic, and anti-American, Wright's comments are just plain stupid. I have to explain the factual errors in my daughters' science books regarding global warming. Can you imagine the amount of intellectual damage control you'd have to engage in with your kids after one of those sermons?
Posted by: Cowboy at March 14, 2008 11:26 AMIt's ugly - but those of us who'd been looking into Obama for a long time aren't very surprised, except perhaps by the fact that it's taken this long for some strong video to surface. Yet more evidence that the Clinton operation may never have been what it was cracked up to be.
This article is right on the money IMHO.
This is the pastor who belched out his rasist, anti American, hateful garbage every single Sunday for 20 years of Obamas life AND for pretty much his kids entire lives.
I wondered why on earth Obama refused to wear a pin on his lapel of the United States of AmeriKKKa, thinking that it was some pathetic left wing pandering stunt but now it's crystal clear.
It seems now that after 20 years of fanatical preaching about how bad America is, how bad the white people are, how unjust the USA is, that Obama DOES hate the USA, he IS ashamed of what he feels America is....Viewed from his eyes, with everything he has been indoctrinated on from his "crazy Uncle" pastor(who is actually a crazy rasist) how can the USA be anything but the cause of everything thats wrong in the world today.
To end this post, Im listening to some guy telling a radio host that he couldnt understand what this minister said because its from a black mans point of view....My feeling on that statment would be as follows.
When I see a congregation whooping it up, dancing with glee and joy at a guy saying that the USA deserves what it got on 9-11.....I see absoultley zero difference than I did seeing Palastinians passing ou the candy as they too hooted and hollered,danced with joy as the actual 9-11 event unfolded.
But hey, thats my view.
In one of the sermons clips played yesterday by Rush, Rev Wright was shouting "...they want us to sing 'God Bless America?' No! God DAMN America!"
Suddenly, that picture a few months back of Obama not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem doesn't seem so trivial. And one has to wonder, are Michelle Obama's divisive statements just evidence that she isn't as skilled at keeping it under wraps? Obama has been asked about this, and he chose to be vague and evasive ("I disagree with some of the things he says...", "I don't think my church has anything to do with the election..." (quoting from memory)). Unacceptable.
Obama's socialism was enough to guarantee never getting my vote, but I'll go further and state that I'll never give my vote for the person to lead this country to a candidate that just might hate the country. Period.
Posted by: Satanam in computatrum at March 14, 2008 12:09 PMSo do Michelle and Barack [redacted] Obama hate whites, too? I can't say that's a quality I'd prize in my president.
Posted by: butch at March 14, 2008 12:12 PMSo do Michelle and Barack [redacted] Obama hate whites, too?
I strongly doubt it (Barack is half-white, after all), but Michelle Obama's Master's thesis did clearly reveal she felt alienated from whites. Alienation does not equal hate, however, so unless she says something more specific, I think that is going too far with a conjecture unsupported by the evidence at hand.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at March 14, 2008 12:18 PMCome on, Bob. To link Obama's parenting skills to his ability to lead the nation is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
It's obvious you hate the guy, and I agree this Wright guy is a kook, but this is really grasping at straws.
Posted by: dude at March 14, 2008 12:32 PMI honestly think that its more than feeling alienated CY.
If I was a member of that church for the last 20 years, listening to such bizzare sermons that puts my Ciuntry on the deserving end of every bad thing that comes our way, and I'm told it's due to the "white people" who run the contry and the world then I'm feeling a tad more than alienation.
Remember I'm not just the typical schmoo sitting in the front pew soaking up the venom, Im the guy giving large sums of my money to this church to do my part in keeping the venom flowing.
I'm not alienated...I'm pissed off, disgusted, and feeling victimized...those equal up to comming closer to hatred than alienation.
If I was Mcain, I would be searching both Heaven and Hell for videos of the Obama families physical reaction to some of these sermons as they are being given.
If they are dancing in the isle at this junk...well then...It would be interesting to see, to say the least.
Hey dude,
Kook?
If you tell me what your hearing from this guy isnt pure hared and racism on "parallel" with your typical old time KKK mettings then I suspect you have convienant tunnel vision.
Having your kids sitting through these...for a lack of a better word...sermons is at best borderline child abuse.
Posted by: Drider at March 14, 2008 12:47 PMcan someone please point to where anything he said wasn't true? we have bombed those countries and we have killed innocent women and children. how is that not evil?
I love how my fellow white people get up in arms when they hear stuff like this.it's like the entirety of u.s. history does not factor in their opinions. HELLO! did you forget that the black community has been struggling since slavery was ended. there has never been a formal apology for slavery and blacks have only been considered "equal" since the 1960's.
the great thing about america is that we can be ashamed of injustices carried out in our name and fight to end those injustices. Like it or not, we are responsible for 9-11. America gave weapons and money to mujahadeen fighters, who later became the taliban.
we gave weapons of mass destruction to iraq, and 20 or so years later invaded that country fro having WMD's. after all of this, we shouldn't blame ourselves? this is like giving a mugger a pistol and acting surprised when he takes your wallet at gunpoint as if it wasn't your own fault.
Dude - Grasping at straws? Really?
Watch the videos that are now available and come back and say that again. Please.
Posted by: daleyrocks at March 14, 2008 01:00 PMNow we know there is a lot of racism in the US>..It just goes the opposite of what we have been told for all these years. Apparently a lot of Blacks (hear the cheering in the back of the sermon!) hate whites. Obama has done more to harm race relations in this country than I could have imagined. IT certainly takes me back and now I would totally question every black person before I would vote for him whereas before I wouldn't have even thought of it.
Sad sad sad, & I wonder what country this 70 year old preacher would point to that has been better for huge numbers of blacks than the US? I do believe it was Muslim blacks that rounded up their own and sold them as slaves to the bad white guys long ago.
This whole affair with the preacher/advisor to obama has shaken my beliefs in the sameness of Blacks. Check out Oprah's show a few years ago about the conspiracy theories that Black hold against white people. A, isn't Obama's mother White?
Bob Cochran: Well, how about that we created the AIDS virus? Come on, you know that he is blaming us for the stuff that happened, not just stating that it happened. As if there were no justification at all.
Posted by: buford gooch at March 14, 2008 01:13 PMJeremiah Wright and Barack Obama can think what they want about America. That's their right. But we don't have to elect someone to the most prestigious post in America - the presidency, to someone who has no respect for our country. That's OUR right.
Posted by: Jo at March 14, 2008 01:17 PMBob, did't you mean to end your post with ...Amen.
Your a typical example of the standard issue Anti American.
The USA gave weapons to people and they didnt like us in the end so they killed us, yada yada yada....yep....weapons industries are huge throught the world and some of ours made it into hands of fanatics due to bad policy or whatever, dynamics change throught history and I would agree that we should have learned by now on not arming and training groups such as Fatah.
But the thing is that the GREAT things the USA has done for the world are always overlooked by people like you.
I hear from "kooks" how we deserved 9-11 for instance and when asked exactly how people come to that conclusion they say we bombed and killed millions of muslims or some such nonsense and it becomes apperant that they say it just...because...because they hate their country.
It's pathetic.
Your reference to us deserving to be killed does not hold water...seriously try on focus on the many good things your country has done and you will be happier...You truley live in a country that is unique as any country throught history, pride is in order...not disdain.
Posted by: Drider at March 14, 2008 01:25 PMI like the part where we imprisoned Mandela and supported apartheid too. And how we keep Third Worlders in grinding poverty to maintain our lifestyle.
Wright is a nutter and if you can't see that like a big flashing neon sign, you're a nutter too.
Posted by: Pablo at March 14, 2008 01:26 PMHELLO! did you forget that the black community has been struggling since slavery was ended.
HELLO! Did you forget that it's 2008? And have you looked at Obama's private school upbringing or his current family income? Dude has NEVER struggled, except for maybe getting away from the cocaine. Which, of course, the white man made him snort.
Posted by: Pablo at March 14, 2008 01:29 PMWelcome to a snapshot of the next POTUS. This is gonna be painful.
Posted by: mike at March 14, 2008 01:38 PM"Can you imagine the amount of intellectual damage control you'd have to engage in with your kids after one of those sermons?'
No. Because if you were at the sermon you probably agree with Wright.
Posted by: davod at March 14, 2008 02:19 PMThere is no damage control Davod.
These poor kids are sitting there soaking up all this hatred, watching mommy and daddy and all of the other adults just going at it no holds barred.
It is exactly like what you see with the Palasitnians....They teach their kids to hate their neighbors and they do...they grow up to become the product of their teachings.
I bet they dont cross their hearts at the jewish national anthem or wear a star of David pin on their lapels either.
Posted by: Drider at March 14, 2008 02:29 PMBob - the US was responsible for 9/11 like the French were responsible for WWII - let me guess -we just had it coming
Posted by: bandit at March 14, 2008 02:44 PM
Obama has been the victim of racism.(And I hate that misused word, there is only one race...) He has not experienced overt racism that many Afro-Americans have.(I hate hyphenated Americans too...I'm just so hateful...)
He is the victim of soft racism, the soft racism practiced by liberals. Soft racism is equivalant to low expectations and not holding a person or group to the standard you set for yourself.
Affirmative action has reinforced soft racism in both the minds of "benevolent liberals", whose help they so desperately need, and limiting the goals of Afro-Americans. It kind of says, "No we can't, unless you help us..." or "No you can't, unless we help you..." (Makes you feel good about yourself, huh...)
Do Afro-Americans need help? My personal opinion is, only temporary. Can a society eliminate all racism? no... At best, we can equalize nepotism. I think that should be the new goal for Affirmative action.
Posted by: Sully at March 14, 2008 03:32 PM
Obama missed the opportunity for a "Sister Souljah" moment. When he heard his pastor say "God Damn America," he should have stood up and walked out. Instead, he kept going to this church, giving it money, and picking this pastor as his campaign's spiritual advisor.
It's now very clear to me why Obama won't wear a flag lapel pin or put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance: he tacitly agrees with the Hate America speech of his pastor.
God help us if we elect a man like this to the highest office in the land.
Posted by: Rick K at March 14, 2008 03:34 PMequivilate = equivocate
Posted by: Lee at March 14, 2008 03:39 PMBob Cochran 2008-03-14 12:58:
"we have bombed those countries and we have killed innocent women and children. how is that not evil?"
The abridged answer:
We bombed our enemies in those countries. The deaths of any non-combatant women and children that occurred from those bombings were an unwanted - from our viewpoint - consequence of our enemies holing up among the women and children. Their deaths resulted from our enemies' cowardice.
Our actions in prosecuting war against our enemies were not evil, but our enemies' actions that resulted in the innocents' endangerment were evil, and the blame belongs on them.
Posted by: Troll Feeder at March 14, 2008 03:40 PMObama's pastor also railed on about Obama's underprivileged status, how he's had to stand in the rain why a cab passed him by because of his color.
Please. Both Obama and his wife have Ivy League educations. They live in a $1.5 million house. Together they pull down over $500,000 a year. Their kids go to private school. If that's not evidence of how far this country has changed since 1960, nothing is.
Oh, and they don't have to worry about catching a cab; a limo takes them everywhere they want to go.
Posted by: Rick K at March 14, 2008 03:40 PMNo, equivilate = equivilate.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at March 14, 2008 03:41 PMThe difference here is that some of Hagee's remarks are eminently defensible: there are numerous sound reasons why hate-crime legislation is bad, and the Quran does in fact give scriptural permission for enslaving and killing Christians and Jews (along with everybody else who isn't Muslim). I don't see anything Wright says as defensible.
Posted by: Bob Smith at March 14, 2008 03:42 PMNo wonder Mrs Obama is so openly hostile towards America, inspite of her well-known, one-time attack of "patriotism". Having soaked up Jerimiah Wright's incitement to Hate-speech for twenty years..no thinking person could possible believe that both Obama's do not actually approve of what their "friend, mentor & spiritual advisor" has been ranting about all these years. As for John Hagee, his "tell it like it is" style does offend some people.. just like the Bible does. He has also been misquoted and mischaracterized; probably on purpose.
Posted by: Dixie at March 14, 2008 04:11 PMSplit hairs all you want, the bottom line is that when non-moonbat Moms and Dads hear Jeremiah Wright's rantings and learn that the Obama children were regularly exposed to this crap, they are going to question Barack and Michelle's judgment.
After all, the Dems are the nanny-state promoters. So here's a good ad: Jeremiah Wright rant followed by a voice-over question: Barack takes his daughters to this church. Would you want Barack exposing your kids to this?
Posted by: capitano at March 14, 2008 04:24 PMRE: BOB COCHRAN'S POST:
"HELLO! did you forget that the black community has been struggling since slavery was ended. there has never been a formal apology for slavery "
Let’s see - half a million (mostly) white men died fighting to end slavery, and that’s not good enough. There needs to be a ‘formal apology?’ I suppose then, that as a Jew, I’m still waiting for a ‘formal apology’ from the Egyptians!! And who sold all these slaves to the slave traders?? Black Moslems!!!
"Like it or not, we are responsible for 9-11. America gave weapons and money to mujahadeen fighters, who later became the taliban." “we gave weapons of mass destruction to iraq, and 20 or so years later invaded that country fro having WMD's. after all of this, we shouldn't blame ourselves?”
Aside from overlooking the implicit lie that we “gave weapons of mass destruction to Iraq,” (please tell us what WMDs we gave to Iraq 20 years ago) what a simplistic view you America haters have. By your logic, we shouldn't have helped the Russians defeat Hitler, because The Soviets later became our enemies!! In life, Bob, one must survive TODAY'S problems and deal with tomorrow' problems TOMORROW.
Posted by: ALAN at March 14, 2008 04:28 PMMaybe, just maybe...we are missing the bigger picture here. Identity is a political construct in this primary.
If we peel the onion, at the core we may indeed find his wife and pastor.
It is not "necessarily" true that Dorhn, Ayers, Rev. Wright, and Michelle represent the "inner Obama"...but, if those birds are flocking together, it sure pays to look at his feathers.
Samantha Power, Brzezinski, ...it seems that Sen. Obama is a man who keeps close friends and mentors and advisors who have some strange notions about America, its allies, its enemies, Israel, Louis Farrakhan...
At some point, one has to question the company you keep closest... and how comfortable you must be with their worldview.
Sen. Obama has struggled mightily with distancing himself from some rabid, ugly, divisive and disturbing undertones from ...well...nearly everyone with whom he has his closest associations.
This is not just guilt by association, it is guilt by the complete failure of disassociation.
The people with whom we feel most comfortable, whose company we seek out, with whom we dedicate our elective time and energy...paint a picture of who we are. And for Sen. Obama,...Rev. Wright holds a large palette and paints with a broad brush.
It's entirely appropriate to judge a man by the company he keeps. A lengthy association with a raving racist grievance-monger like Wright reflects very poorly on Obama's character and judgment. I agree with Mr. Owens that Obama is unfit to be President.
If anyone still doubts, let's turn this around. What would you think of a presidential candidate who belonged to a church that's "unabashedly white", and published a newsletter article singing the praises of David Duke? How could such a candidate not possibly be considered racist himself?
Slavery was abolished over a century ago. Jim Crow died a well-deserved death 40 years ago. Get over it, already. One of my ancestors changed the family name because of anti-German sentiment during WWI; others had to deal with "No Irish Need Apply." I'm sure most people reading this could come up with something similar from their own family histories. I don't feel the country owes me anything for past injustices, and neither should you. Fix the problems of today, and move on.
Posted by: mwl at March 14, 2008 05:29 PMDoes anyone still doubt me when I say that the 5th column backs this stuff to the hilt? Bob Chohran's position is mild compared to other's I've seen. It's what they're about.
Posted by: brando at March 14, 2008 05:29 PMEvery U.S. President must stand foursquare behind this country, always placing its interests first. The Constitution of course does not say this literally. But its provisions concerning the President's duties and powers, considered together, require nothing less. As a former Con Law professor, Sen. Obama certainly knows that. The President has duties toward Americans, not Americans AND other nationals. And the first duty of any U.S. President is to keep this country safe from enemies.
Sen. Obama's decision not to wear a flag pin--trivial in isolation--becomes noteworthy in the context of statements by his wife and his minister. Who but a fool would have a lawyer who only half-heartedly advocated their interests? In the same vein, I want never to have a President with even the least reservation about representing the interests of the United States first, last, and always. I'm starting to suspect that Mr. Obama, in his heart, has some such reservation.
Posted by: Mike Hollins at March 14, 2008 05:42 PMClearly, we need more Christian-Republican Presidents, like John McCain. His Religious people who are backing him with votes and $ speak the truth. We must hate Catholics and see Armageddon happen in the ME to bring God back in all His Glory! With any luck, we can completely destroy the entire Earth with another Republican President. Praise be the war lovers, for they will profit from the misery of everyone else!
Posted by: Innocent Bystander at March 14, 2008 07:01 PMInnocent,
Yeah, ain't it terrible that the Berlin Wall fell, and the Soviet Union collapsed, under the watch of a Christian Republican President? Those people were so much better under the previous totalitarian rule, weren't they?
Go crawl back under whatever rock you came out from.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 14, 2008 07:20 PMEvery aspect of Obama life from his mother, wife and "pastor", including friends with leftist terrorists, tells us that he does hold the typical leftist hatred for this country.
But I say that the Democrats should nominate him as their candidate because as we know he truly represents 90% of today's Democratic party. So let's find out once and for all if this nation wants this America, "white" and men hating platform to represent them to the world. No coverups by the MSM or politic-speak from the Messiah. Put everything on the table.
Posted by: LogicalSC at March 14, 2008 07:55 PMInnocent is exhibit B. Set in stone.
Posted by: brando at March 14, 2008 08:03 PMBrando, the incredibly desperate lefty spin on this issue seems to indicate that even the left realizes that this could be the issue that buries Obama's candidacy.
So it looks like McCain will either be battling Obama, with all the Wright baggage; or Hillary, with all her and Bill's baggage.
Suddenly things look pretty good for the gentleman from Arizona.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 14, 2008 08:14 PMBob,
Your comments at ABC are spot on.
Obama was and is comfortable with what Wright preached because they reinforced his already held beliefs.
No one who loved their nation would sit through such rhetoric for 20 years....
Posted by: theMachiavellian at March 14, 2008 09:42 PMI find it funny how those that support Obama seem to feel they need to fall on failed attempts at insults to strengthen their stance. Is anyone able to provide any useful debate?
Posted by: Matt at March 15, 2008 12:10 AMInnocent Bystander seems to agree with Obama that Saddam Hussein should still be in power. Iraqis, who executed him, disagree.
Posted by: Pablo at March 15, 2008 05:28 AMMy cynical take. Obama is crafty not crazy. He doesn't believe in Wright's nonsense. Wright doesn't believe it either. It's simply red meat for a segment of his congregation.
Obama needed Wright--he had the money, power and connections on the South side--still does. Obama waited until the last minute to gently throw him under the bus because he still needs him. Remember where JFK stole the 1960 election? If it's close, Obama will need Chicago and the black vote in general.
This tempest will pass. It will be very difficult for Hillary or McCain to do too much with this without looking racist. He's apologized, repudiated, blah, blah. Let's move on.
Look for Hillary and McCain to inflict as much short term pain as possible, and then let it go for now.
But juicy edits of the Wright videos are being prepared as we speak. We may see them next month in PA, or this October.
Posted by: Old Dad at March 15, 2008 10:49 AMObama's pastor also railed on about Obama's underprivileged status, how he's had to stand in the rain why a cab passed him by because of his color.
Bah. I've had a cab pass me by and accelerate, and I'm white.
There's more to it than skin color.
Posted by: rosignol at March 15, 2008 11:41 AMYes, there is a lot of racism in the world - and Rev. Wright's sermons are examples of racism at its worst. The problem with his racism as opposed to the racism of the KKK is that Wright's racism is not viewed as racism by many people.
Posted by: TMS at March 15, 2008 12:28 PMLadies and gentlemen, this man WILL be called on to advise a President Obama.
Posted by: Techie at March 14, 2008 11:07 AM
------------
Yeah, kinda like the bigoted religious spokesmen Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, Hagee, Reed, Rushdoony, Haggard, etc. have advised Bush and other high-ranking GOPers.
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 15, 2008 03:19 PMMy cynical take. Obama is crafty not crazy. He doesn't believe in Wright's nonsense. Wright doesn't believe it either. It's simply red meat for a segment of his congregation.
Obama needed Wright--he had the money, power and connections on the South side--still does. Obama waited until the last minute to gently throw him under the bus because he still needs him. Remember where JFK stole the 1960 election? If it's close, Obama will need Chicago and the black vote in general.
Posted by: Old Dad at March 15, 2008 10:49 AM
------------------
My take too. What Obama is doing with Wright is no different that what McCain is doing with Hagee and Parsley. McCain needs them and the base they bring with them to win just like Obama needs the black voting base that Wright represents. Whether or not we the voters like this latest round of "religious-tinged political" pandering, McCain and Obama are just being politicians. In no way, shape or form do either of these men believe the extremist views of their "spiritual guides".
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 15, 2008 03:29 PMCheesy, tell me, does Hagee pastor the church that McCain has attended with his family for the last two decades?
Did Hagee officiate at McCain's wedding?
Did Hagee baptize McCain's children?
Has Hagee been given any sort of official status in the McCain campaign?
I am sure you'll ignore these questions, but your refusal to answer will be an answer of sorts.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 15, 2008 03:50 PMIf you had read Obama's statement (can be read at HuffPo, etc.) or heard excerpts of his interview with Fox's Major Garrett, you would know why Obama has stayed in his church and how he feels about the caring, pastoral side of Wright and the church. You'd also see that Obama does not agree with Wright's extremist views...just like McCain has rightfully said he does not agree with all that Hagee has said. As Old Dad very smartly pointed out both Obama and McCain are playing politics here but your political bias will not allow you to see the similiarities between the situations of Wright and Hagee/Parsley.
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 15, 2008 04:05 PMshould read: As Old Dad very smartly pointed out Obama (and, in my opinion, McCain too) are playing politics.
Old Dad did not say McCain in his post.
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 15, 2008 04:11 PMObama's getting what he deserves, all politicians have to pretend they are just regulah church goin' folks. Now he played the man's game and the man is playin' him. There is not a person on this board that really believes Obama agrees with or will espouse the more unpallatable statements of this pastor any more than people could believe that George Bush agrees with the segregationist rhetoric at Bob Jones University, but this is the hypocrisy you have to deal with in American politics, and it will be a test of his artfulness to see how he handles it.
Posted by: chris lee at March 15, 2008 04:21 PMCheesy, one does not stay in a church 20 years if one does not agree with what's preached from the pulpit. I happen to be a lay preacher myself, so I know whereof I speak.
Also, one does not ask someone to be an official part of one's Presidential campaign if one doesn't agree with that person's views. Can you see Obama asking George Bush (either one) to be a part of his campaign? The very idea is absurd.
Your candidate, Cheesy, is in very VERY deep water, and all your thrashing about isn't doing a thing to help him.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 15, 2008 05:06 PMCP:
The whole problem Obama has with his church's retiring (head?) pastor is the length and depth of the association.
I am Catholic and was personally damaged by the "pedophile priests" scandal. Though, obviously, I denounce those priests who offended.
Obama is forever tarnished by his mute acceptance of Wright's "hate whitey" preaching for the last 20 years. His repudiation now rings hollow.
Posted by: Mark at March 15, 2008 05:30 PMUnfortunately Mark, America seems to have the attention span of a doorknob, and will forget about this in a day or two. Hopefully there are enough intelligent voters left to throw off the mass idiocy.
Posted by: Matt at March 15, 2008 06:50 PMPASTOR WRIGHT, "GOD BLESS AMERICAN, NO,NO,NO, GOD DAMN AMERICA". Maybe the pastor could be more honest by stepping up to the plate and allowing us to quickly free his pockets and sundry bank accounts of all the goddamn American dollars he holds, tax free!?!?!?!?
Posted by: MARYLOU JONES at March 15, 2008 08:47 PMAnd out come the BDS moonbats, attempting to equate what this RACIST, America HATING freak, is saying with President Bush supporters.
We aren't buying it fools. Oh, and quick bytw for you, President Bush isn't running for office, Obama is.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at March 15, 2008 10:06 PMMuslims Against Sharia call on Senators McCain and Obama to cut all ties with their racist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic supporters.
McCain: http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/03/mccains-spiritual-guide-destroy-islam.html
Obama: http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/03/racist-congregation-cheering-racist.html
Posted by: C-C-G at March 15, 2008 05:06 PM
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You're making quite an a$$ of yourself with these assumptions of yours. Obama is NOT my candidate. I am an independent who does not like any of the candidtes I have to chose from come election day. Also, I'm not thrashing about or trying to help Obama. Unlike you who can't see beyond his/her own political bias, I am able to see the issues of the Wright and Hagee/Parsley situations from a neutral viewpoint. Both Obama and McCain have explained their positions with regards to what their religious supporters have said in the past. What matters here is Obama's response to the situation...which he made by way of his online post and interview made with Fox. No doubt you will not accept Obama's answers but then it's clear you have no interest in fair and balanced analysis when it comes to the similiarities surrounding Obama's and McCain's religious supporters and their outrageous remarks.
Can I see Obama asking Bush to be part of his campaign? That very question is absurd as this is about religious leaders who make outrageous remarks and the candidates they support. How about asking why Bush and his campaign advisor Rove solicited advice from Dobson during the 2004 election...the same Dobson who has made many outrageous remarks himself. Why was this Dobson given info on Supreme Court nominees by the White House before most of the Congress knew this same info? Why Dobson, Hagee, Robertson, Falwell (all of whom have made extremist remarks that Bush should have been asked to denounce just like Obama has been asked to do with regards to Wright) and numerous other religious leaders (Haggard, Morrison, etc.) have been in White House meetings in order to have input on our foreign policy stances with regards to Iraq, Iran, terrorism in general, etc. Who should have involvement in the forming of our foreign policies? Leaders of ally countries, military, intelligence & foreign policy experts - yes; religious leaders especially those who make outrageous remarks - no.
Face it, politicians from both sides of the aisle use and are used by religious figures who make extremist remarks. I don't think it's too much to ask that matters like this one with Obama, McCain and their spiritual advisors be covered in an even-handed manner which you are obviously incapable of doing.
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 16, 2008 12:21 AMCheesy, McCain hasn't been going to a church espousing these extremist views for two decades. He and his wife weren't married by an extremist pastor, nor were his children baptized by them.
McCain didn't use an extremist pastor's sermon for the title of his book, nor did he name any of these pastors to an official position in his campaign.
Obama is tied far, FAR more closely to Wright than McCain is to any extremist pastor on the right... and that fact is the one that you refuse to acknowledge. Why is that?
Posted by: C-C-G at March 16, 2008 08:49 AMCCG- McCain and Obama are politicians who take great pains to play to the Middle for the most part. McCain is not going to espouse or endorse Hagee's end times views ALTHOUGH he needs and wants his endorsement. Obama NEEDS to be a part of a church AND esp early in his political career a BLACK church. It's hard to talk about American history , for ALL of it's tremendous accomplishments, in entirely polite terms. It's hard to talk about Christian theology and Christian American history in entirely polite terms. The effort of politicians today to play to the middle (whether the middle 'left' or 'right') is always threatened be the extremist views of many of their needed supporters.
Posted by: chris lee at March 16, 2008 09:20 AMChris, why can't you lefties get the point?
* McCain has not gone to Hagee's church for 20 years.
* McCain wasn't married to his wife by Hagee.
* McCain's children weren't baptized by Hagee.
* McCain didn't take a phrase from Hagee's sermons for the title of his book.
* McCain didn't name Hagee to an official position in his campaign.
Obama did all of the above with Wright.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 16, 2008 10:40 AMYou are right on all of those points.
Posted by: chris lee at March 16, 2008 10:46 AMGlad you admit it, Chris. That means that you have to admit that Obama's relationship with Wright is far, FAR closer than McCain's with Hagee or any other controversial conservative pastor.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 16, 2008 10:50 AMI could care less about McCain, Hagee, Obama, Huckabee, Parsley....whatever.
But as far as Pastor Wright's comments....the only thing NOT born out in documented history is the source of the AIDS virus.
We are the number 1 killer in the world.
We HAVE been involved in drug running.
We are the worlds number 1 exporter of weapons.
Racism is STILL alive and well in America (Ok, the welfare state AND affirmative action DO help keep racism alive!)
We DID bomb all those places.
We DID support S. Africa's Apartheid state and the imprisonment of Mandela
We DO ignore atrocaties perpetrated against Palestinians
Other than the AIDS thing, everything the Pastor said is spot on.
As a nation, and a free people, we have lost our way.
Posted by: Dan at March 16, 2008 10:52 AMThis is Obama's dilemma. To get elected he has to be pallatable to Middle Class white america. He nevertheless needs the support of black america and the radicalized left. Although you can find lot's of examples of groundless "america" bashng amongst radicals in America they ARE at least willing to raise legitimate questions about American policy on issues or racism, sexism and imperialist ambition. Barack's challenge is to maintain his image as "safe" black man and hero to the radical left.
Posted by: chris lee at March 16, 2008 11:04 AMWe are the number 1 killer in the world.
WRONG. try reading about Stalin, Mao, Hitler for starters.
We HAVE been involved in drug running.A LIE. this is the Maxime Waters nonsense that a cretinous 3 year old would not believe. Of course, "progressives" are much more credulous and will believe--or promulgate--fairy tales like that.
We are the worlds number 1 exporter of weapons.So what? If advanced weaponry caused wars the Europeans and we would be radioactive ash by now.
Racism is STILL alive and well in America (Ok, the welfare state AND affirmative action DO help keep racism alive!)TRUE. Wrights' and Michelle Obama's comments prove that point, unfortunately.
We DID bomb all those places.Yes. And I hope we would do it again under the same circumstances.
We DID support S. Africa's Apartheid state and the imprisonment of Mandela.Support? As in trade with SA? Or do you think we sent them foreign aid in return for keeping Mandela in jail? What the hell are you talking about here other than bumper sticker slogans?
We DO ignore atrocaties perpetrated against PalestiniansOnly the fabricated ones--which has been all of them so far. Like Jenin. But maybe if those animals would accept peace, finally, the deaths could stop.
Other than the AIDS thing, everything the Pastor said is spot on.Wright is a psychotic hater who does not deserve to live in this country. I expect soon to hear Wright believes white people were created in a lab in Africa 6,000 years ago (a tenet of faith amongst the reason-deprived Nation of Islam nutcakes). Wright clearly would prefer to create a Zimbabwe or Cuba here--a racist/socialist state. Posted by: iconoclast at March 16, 2008 12:19 PM
Sadly, as is your pattern here, your bias is keeping you from understanding...it's almost as bad as your flippant assumption that Obama is my candidate. I haven't refused to acknowledge Obama's close ties to Wright and that he stayed with this church for 20 years. We all know these things are true so your repeating it over and over just makes you look silly. If you had been paying attention, you would have seen that I yielded the issue to Obama himself...the reasons he gave (in his Friday blog post and Fox's interview with Garrett) as to why he stayed with the church as HE is the only one who can truly speak to it. I also agree with the reasons Old Dad and now Chris Lee mentioned...that Obama needed the affiliation for political reasons but, of course, Obama won't admit to this just as no politician would.
As far as McCain goes, it's interesting that while it doesn't appear that he belongs to a church that has a pastor (Dan Yeary) who has made controversial remarks, McCain has publicly said that he continues "to establish relationships with people like John Hagee, Pastor Richard Land, my own Pastor Dan Yeary and others in the evangelical community". (BeliefNet interview) Both Hagee and Land are religious leaders who have made outrageous remarks themselves as has McCain's "spiritual guide", Parsley. McCain's willingness to carry on future relationships with them (and even campaign/fund raise with them) after knowing the extremist things they have said doesn't speak any better for McCain than does Obama's past and more recent affiliation with Wright. As Wright is no longer part of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee and no longer the pastor at his church, Obama won't have a continued relationship with him (as he clarified in the blog/interview) while it does sound like McCain hopes to continue with Hagee, et al.
I find it disturbing that these 2 candidates and their affiliations with controversial religious leaders are, unfortunately, being handled with the typical double standard. Your comments are proof of this and do nothing to better the political discourse in the US. It's all about excoriating the other side while even-handed analysis is pushed aside.
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 16, 2008 12:23 PMThat last post was in response to C-C-G at March 16, 2008 10:40 AM
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 16, 2008 12:25 PMYou keep making the same error, Cheesy, in trying to equate what McCain has done and what Obama has done. As long as you keep making that error, I will keep correcting it. There is no similarity at all between going to a church for a one-off speech and going to a church and listening to this bilge for 20+ years.
Once you acknowledge that there's a world of difference between the two, and I mean acknowledge in deeds, not just words--such as stopping with this silly "McCain does the same thing" nonsense--we can move on to another subject.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 16, 2008 01:09 PMOllie North participated in Heroin trafficing to support the sandinista gun running and Iranian hostage buyoff. He was convicted in federal court for lying about this.
We supported South Africa both diplomatically and economically. Not just as a trading partner.
There have been atrocities committed against the Palestinians. The history goes back well before WWII
You hope we bomb Women and Children again? C'mon...
I don't see Wright as psychotic. I see an angry black man.
Posted by: Dan at March 16, 2008 01:29 PMOllie North participated in Heroin trafficing to support the sandinista gun running and Iranian hostage buyoff. He was convicted in federal court for lying about this.We supported South Africa both diplomatically and economically. Not just as a trading partner.
There have been atrocities committed against the Palestinians. The history goes back well before WWII
You hope we bomb Women and Children again? C'mon...
I don't see Wright as psychotic. I see an angry black man.
More lies. If you examine even briefly the three felony counts North was convicted of even you would find absolutely nothing in them regarding drugs.
Regarding SA, so you are saying the US government did send aid to SA to help them keep Mandela imprisoned? How interesting. A cite would be nice for this. From somewhere other than Mother Jones, please. By the way, I thought that having normal economic and diplomatic relations with outlaw states like Cuba, Iran and SA was supposed to be a good thing.
Yes, there have been many atrocities committed against Arabs in Israel. All the real ones have been committed by other Arabs. As opposed to the nearly daily atrocities committed against Israelis combined with the falsity of virtually all accusations of atrocities committed by Israel.
Regarding the total war of WWII, fiven the same situations, I hope we would do the same thing. You are an ignorant fool to think otherwise.
You can think what you wish about Wright, as will I. We both can share his actual comments with friends and acquaintances and they will decide for themselves what best describes him--a delusional, racist hater of america or just "an angry black man".
Obama attended that church regularly for 20 years and NEVER heard any such hatred coming from his pastor's mouth? And the media knew about these sermons through the years and never brought it up until they were forced to? Something wrong with this picture. Obama is lying and the media allowed it until this week. What else will they do to defeat Senator Clinton?
Posted by: Karol at March 16, 2008 02:46 PMNo error on my part so there's no need for your so-called "correcting", CCG. Both men have connections to religious leaders with extremist views. Obama has explained why he stayed at his church and that Wright didn't make these statement when he was sitting in the pew. He has seen a good side to Wright that none of us know. If you choose not to believe Obama's reasons, that's your choice but it clearly shows your bias against Obama (which no doubt existed before the Wright fiasco ever came out). Wright is moving on and will no longer be part of Obama's circle. Meanwhile, McCain has said he plans to continue his association with Hagee, Land, Parsley and others via campaigning, fund raising and endorsements. This shows his current and future intentions in words and deeds. Your denial with regards to what McCain is doing with his Hagee, Parsley, etc. associations shows your inability to acknowledge that McCain is engaging in the same type of behavior you are condemning Obama for. A double standard for sure and very telling about your biases. Feel free to move along to another subject as I will no longer be responding to your posts. You're beyond help and your ability for critical thinking is totally screwed up by your lack of fair and balanced analysis.
Posted by: CheesyPoofs at March 16, 2008 06:51 PMThe point, Cheesy, is that Obama has spent, if we count just Sundays, over 1,000 mornings in that pastor's company (20 years, 52 weeks a year = 1,040 Sundays). The number could be--and probably is--a lot higher.
McCain has spent, at most, 1% of that (10 mornings) with the controversial pastors you're trying to link him with.
The math is so simple most schoolchildren can understand it, Cheesy, why can't you?
Posted by: C-C-G at March 16, 2008 07:04 PM"Obama has explained why he stayed at his church and that Wright didn't make these statement when he was sitting in the pew."
Cheesy. Please answer a few simple questions for me.
First off, exactly what explanation are you talking about? The only thing that I have heard come from Obama's mouth is that he denounces Wright's views. I also never heard anyone say that this was a new sermon for Wright. As a matter of fact, many news agencies report that they have been that way for years.
Do you know what sermon is in question? Well there are several. The first time he gave his "Audacity To Hope" sermon was in 1990. Obama was a regular visitor of the church at that time. Many, no most of the pastors that I have heard in my short 29 years on this earth have used the same sermon on more than one occasion when it was a strong sermon where they were trying to prove a hard point. So please do not tell me that you believe Obama's claim to have never heard such things come from Wright's mouth. There have been several documented cases where Wright preached in such a way. But I would be willing to bet that neither you nor the general public would take the time to figure out how often he spoke like that. Oh frigging well. People are stupid and will continue to live in idiocy.
Posted by: Matt at March 16, 2008 07:19 PMWell, Cheezy claims to have left....hopefully he took his typical lefty moral equivalence response with him. Only someone willfully blind or intentionally deceptive would compare the racist, anti-American ravings of Wright with the statements of Parsley or Hagee.
So goodbye Cheezy. Don't bother to write.
Posted by: iconoclast at March 16, 2008 07:32 PMThat would require them actually researching something for themselves. We can't have that can we?
Posted by: Matt at March 16, 2008 08:00 PMNo, Matt, some people have to have everything explained to them, because they're incapable of thinking for themselves.
Posted by: C-C-G at March 16, 2008 08:06 PMObama has explained why he stayed at his church and that Wright didn't make these statement when he was sitting in the pew.
So that's plausible deniability? Well, it would be, but...
Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”
According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
That was over a year ago. Obama has just jettisoned Wright in the last few days after America has had a chance to see Wright in action.
You can buy the plausible deniability argument if you like, though it requires a willing suspension of disbelief. And it also requires ignoring Obama's own acknowledgment of the problem, as related by Wright, well over a year ago. Feel free to fool yourself.
Posted by: Pablo at March 16, 2008 08:52 PMBoth men have connections to religious leaders with extremist views.
Vincent Bugliosi, Sharon Tate and Squeaky Fromme all "have connections' to Charles Manson. But they're not all the same, are they?
Posted by: Pablo at March 16, 2008 08:58 PMThis whole issue is is one of equivocation, bias, and personal agenda. The defenders of Barack want him elected, they will play DOWN his connection to Wright because of it, the opponents of Barack want him defeated, they will play UP his connection because of it.
Posted by: chris lee at March 17, 2008 09:04 AMNot quite, Chris. Even the Asia Times is weighing in on Wright.
Would they be pro-Obama or anti-Obama?
Posted by: C-C-G at March 17, 2008 12:21 PMThus illustrating my point CCG..and what pray tell is your bias or preference?
Posted by: chris lee at March 17, 2008 12:23 PMThis whole Barack and Wright thing is chilling for sure which is why who these candidates mix with is very important. Which is why since my guy Romney is out of the race and I will probably be voting for McCain, I have to say that his association with the likes of Hagee and Parsley bothers me. If he's smart he'll stay away from them and I've emailed his campaign so. It's only a matter of time before the media starts daily attacks on McCain in order to justify Barack and Wright. There's potential for a backlash on him because of what's happening to Barack. I'd like to ask the ones here who are not Barack supporters:
1) are you McCain supporters? are any of you Hillary supporters?
2) are you OK with McCain having ties to Hagee and Parsley in spite of some of their past words some of which I think are awful and very divisive?
3) or am I the only one who worries about Hagee and Parsley hurting McCain?
Matt, before you make smart-alecky posts about can't we have posters here doing research for themselves why don't you look up Barack's explanation for yourself. It's on the internet and he gave interviews on television. I just looked it up myself. The transcripts and videos are online. Up above it says that his explanations were given at Huffpo and in a FOX News interview. How about less rudeness and more manners.
Posted by: MajorJB at March 17, 2008 02:29 PMChris, did you even read the article from Asia Times?
Posted by: C-C-G at March 17, 2008 06:59 PMThis whole issue is is one of equivocation, bias, and personal agenda.
Gee, I thought it was part of the character assessment process of a man who hopes to be the President of the United States of America. Perhaps it's that for me and what you said for you.
Posted by: Pablo at March 17, 2008 09:37 PMWow, no responses to any of my questions? Do the McCain backers here have no concerns about what Hagee and Parsley have said and whether it will hurt McCain?
Posted by: MajorJB at March 18, 2008 01:00 PMMajor JB, Hagee and Parsley are largely irrelevant. Their relationship to McCain is that they're supporters. There is no comparison between that and the Obama/Wright relationship. Yes, they'll be used against McCain, but I don't think most people will care, as they'll see right through the effort, if they ever hear of it.
If McCain had the deep personal connections to either that Obama has to Wright, I'd feel differently. But he doesn't, and America is well aware of who and what McCain is. he's got an awfully long, awfully public record and attempts to paint him as an extreme Christian fanatic will fail.
Posted by: Pablo at March 18, 2008 04:28 PMThanks for being one who answered Pablo. I'm not worried that McCain will be painted as an extreme Chrisitan fanatic because I don't think that will happen. I do think that people will ask why is he continuing to associate with people who have said some of the things Hagee has said. There's plenty of Catholics out here who want McCain to have nothing further to do with Hagee, deep personal connections or not, because of his anti-Catholic rantings. I'd like McCain to keep his distance from Hagee and not campaign with him at all as I think if he does, it will only come back to bite him in the butt. Hagee and Parsley don't seem irrelevant to me so it looks like we're going to disagree on that point.
Posted by: MajorJB at March 18, 2008 09:05 PM
