May 12, 2008

Obama's Lying Roots

According to an op-ed in the New York Time called "President Apostate," Barack Hussein Obama was indeed born a Muslim:

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother's Christian background is irrelevant.

Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.

His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is "irtidad" or "ridda," usually translated from the Arabic as "apostasy," but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim's family may choose to forgive).

I don't personally feel that being born to any particular religion is of any significance; Obama could have been born a Buddist or a Pastafarian for all I care. None of us chose the religion we are born into. If we want to discuss Obama's religion, then by all means ask why he chose a Marxism-tainted bastardization of Christianity when he was an adult, and why he still continues to cling to that discredited faith that is dedicated more to exploiting racial politics than worshiping God.

That choice is a far more relevant question of his suitability to represent all Americans than any mention of his simply being born to Islam.

That simply shouldn't have mattered... until, as Charles Johnson notes, the Obama campaign was caught lying about his never having been a Muslim on his own Web site:

To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.

That Barack Obama was born a Muslim according to Muslim tradition is a fact. That he chose to dissemble about that to America is an entirely different matter. It shows an Obama campaign that has very little faith of the ability of the American people to think for themselves.

Barack Obama may have been born a Muslim, but he chose to become a liar. To most of us, that counts far more against him.

Posted by Confederate Yankee at May 12, 2008 12:52 PM

I dunno - if I don't care for, or obey, Sharia law for anything else, I don't think I'm going to care that, even without any action on his part, Obama was declared a Muslim. As far as anyone can tell, he certainly never has believed himself one.

This one doesn't float as a lie in my book.

OTOH, since he's considered apostate by Muslims, he's welcome to go say hi to President Ahmadinejad... they might have a wall waiting to fall on him.

Posted by: Jeff at May 12, 2008 01:49 PM

They left out that under Kenyan law, Obama is a citizen of Kenya.

Born a Kenyan Muslim.

Posted by: Neo at May 12, 2008 02:18 PM

Yeah, the Wright stuff is sufficiently out there. But this is a teachable moment, as some chumps like to say. What kind of "religion" does not allow even the possibility of leaving the fold? We should get some CAIR types on record as to just what it means to them that Barry is a straying sheep. (or goat, I guess) Do our Muslim fellow citizens adhere to the Khomeinist Rule that ALL apostasy properly is enforced by ANY good Muslim any old where at any time? Is it a Muslim duty to send Barry to his reward/punishment? Does Hamas find this news... troubling? Or do they assume that Obammy's "Christianity" is one of those mandated deceptions, again, a duty of every good jihadi? Hmm. I'm sure Chris Matthews will get on that. Funny thing though, who could have predicted that Romney would have proven such a tactically important candidate? Without the Mormon issues (dealt with well enough by him) would we even be able to mention such heresies?

Posted by: megapotamus at May 12, 2008 02:18 PM

It is funny how Obama's half sister and his childhood friends all remember him attending the mosque with his step Dad for Friday prayers. They all remember attending the same schools and claim they were definitely Muslim schools.

Posted by: Sara at May 12, 2008 02:33 PM

Did Obama have a Muslim childhood?:

• Obama’s Kenyan birth father: In Islam, religion passes from the father to the child. Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. (1936-1982) was a Muslim who named his boy Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.

• Obama’s Indonesian family: His stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, was also a Muslim. In fact, as Obama’s half-sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng explained to Jodi Kantor of The New York Times: “My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim.” An Indonesian publication, The Banjarmasin Post, reports a former classmate, Rony Amir, recalling that “All the relatives of Barry’s father were very devout Muslims.”

• Obama’s Catholic school in Jakarta: Nedra Pickler of the Associated Press reports that “documents showed he enrolled as a Muslim” while at a Catholic school during first through third grades. Kim Barker of The Chicago Tribune confirms that Obama was “listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school.”

• The public school: Paul Watson of The Los Angeles Times learned from Indonesians familiar with Obama when he lived in Jakarta that he “was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended.” Haroon Siddiqui of The Toronto Star visited the Jakarta public school Obama attended and found that “Three of his teachers have said he was enrolled as a Muslim.” Although Siddiqui cautions that “With the school records missing, eaten by bugs, one has to rely on people’s shifting memories,” he cites only one retired teacher, Tine Hahiyari, retracting her earlier certainty about Obama’s being registered as a Muslim.

• Barack Obama’s public school in Jakarta, Koran class: In his autobiography, Dreams of My Father, Obama relates how he got into trouble for making faces during Koran studies. Indeed, Obama still retains knowledge from that class: Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times reports that Obama “recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them [to Kristof] with a first-rate accent.”

• Mosque attendance: Obama’s half-sister recalled that the family attended the mosque “for big communal events.” Watson learned from childhood friends that “Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque.” Barker found that “Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers.” One Indonesia friend, Zulfin Adi, states that Obama “was Muslim. He went to the mosque. I remember him wearing a sarong” (a garment associated with Muslims).

• Piety: Obama himself says that while living in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he “didn’t practice [Islam].” Indonesians differ in their memories of him. One, Rony Amir, describes Obama as “previously quite religious in Islam.”

Posted by: Sara at May 12, 2008 02:40 PM

I'm pretty sure that Muslims believe that all newborns are Muslims and only by bad parenting does the child believe anything else.

Posted by: Sinner at May 12, 2008 03:00 PM

You speak about racism, what matters if Obama is Moslem, Christian or atheistic. What matters is how he can help to USA and to the world, already even they want to label he as Marxist. He not is Marxist, but this world needs a Marxist that arranges it.
Barack is the only one of the candidates that does not show arrogance in his vision of the world. If USA wants that the world respect it, it must begin respecting the others.
USA cannot continue being the policemen of the world, attacking and applying cruel sanctions to the countries. The peoples are the victims of these wars and of these sanctions.
What would think the american people if he was deprived of food, medicines..., only because we don't agree with his government? We don't have this genocidal and coward mentality, we are humanist and ethical.
The ignorance about what really the peoples of the world think has been a constant in the successive north american governments. The arrogance must be expelled definitively of the White House, and is Obama who could achieve this great change.

Posted by: Omar at May 12, 2008 03:51 PM

That he was born a moslem under sharia law is of no concern to me. The Rifs like to claim everyone is born moslem.
I do see potential problems with some of those Rifs he claims will suddenly like us if he is elected as CinC. Though it is far more likely they will leave off on his apostasy if he allows them to rearm and nuke up.

He seemed to have been rather lacking in any religion as he got older, but going to church or mosque and seeming devout doen't bother me either, and no concern as I myself am a nontheist, yet was in Catholic Church every sunday and Confirmed though not believing, because my mom made me go. Once 18 I stopped going. He seems(as to his claims) to have plugged along rather agnostically until he found his calling in Trinity's BLT screed.
Now there is reason to find concern.
Marx with god added to it. The central/south american version of Marxism with black racial politics added to it. This is what he claims brought him to Jesus. Is anyone surprised he has the most liberal voting record in the Senate? He was listening to Wright and nodding in agreement damned often. Maybe not on the more racist versions, (If he really doesn't agree fully, he didn't really disagree either. . though Micheal likely was cheering Wright on) but the Identity Politics spewed as Sermon was right(or Wright) up his alley.
Barak Obama is a Marxist. His beliefs are that of a follower of Marx, but someone added God into the equation and they use religion as the Fig Leaf to help the pill go down. I take pills without water, but there is no way in hell I'm swallowing what Obama is giving. No matter how much sugar coating it gets.

Posted by: JP at May 12, 2008 03:53 PM

But like his 1996 gun control survey where he said he favored an outright handgun ban, he'll say that a staffer said it, and if you question it, you're trying to be "divisive". And the media will offer no scrutiny, except perhaps of the seams on his jeans..

Posted by: BadIdeaGuy at May 12, 2008 04:25 PM

What do you know about Marx?? Lamentably, the american people ignores many importants things of this world, and uses the power of war and terror.

Posted by: Omar at May 12, 2008 04:34 PM

It makes no difference what religion Obama practices or practiced in his youth. What matters is his constant lying. It is becoming pathological. And his whining and blaming others for his own failures and lack of knowledge about almost everything.

And Omar, you might think the US needs to get the world to love them, but that is naive. When the "world" is in trouble, who do they beg for help? Who do they expect to step up to the plate and fix their miserable problems? When Saddam invaded Kuwait, were the Kuwaitis begging Muslems to save them or were they on TV imploring the US to come to their aid?

I don't give a damn who likes us. I know they respect us, respect both our strength and our generosity.

Posted by: Sara at May 12, 2008 04:47 PM

Is there something Freudian about Obama's 57 states gaff?

There are 57 Islamic states. Are those the states that this supposed non-Muslim is thinking about?

Posted by: Peter Boston at May 12, 2008 04:50 PM

Omar, you seem to be confusing America with Islamoterrorists.

The US doesn't fly hijacked civilian airliners into buildings full of civilians.

The US doesn't deliberately--note, I said deliberately--launch rockets at civilians.

The US doesn't ask people to strap bombs to themselves and walk into public places and then detonate them.

I could go on and on, but this should illustrate which side really uses the power of terror; it ain't the USA.

Posted by: C-C-G at May 12, 2008 07:35 PM

This post may be the most idiotic thing I've ever read. People aren't born any religion, they choose it. CY actually makes this point, then ignores it to say Obama lied. He didn't lie because he never chose to be Muslim. Islam is a religion, not an ethnicity, idiots. What is wrong with you people? I'll bet my house you are all retards or insane.

Posted by: Craig at May 12, 2008 09:01 PM

So the election of Obama is supposed to soothe anti-American savages into loving America? More likely the muslims will want to slit his throat for apostasy instead!

Posted by: Brad at May 12, 2008 09:41 PM

But Craig, what do we need with a box?

Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 12, 2008 10:00 PM

People aren't born any religion, they choose it.

Not according to some religions you insane retard. Craig, I have no interest in your trailer, but thanks for the offer.

Posted by: daleyrocks at May 12, 2008 10:07 PM

Some of our political/intellectual betters like His Saintliness, Obama, are correct, in a very narrow sense, that Americans can be somewhat unsophisticated. We do tend to view every other culture through an American prism of privilege, freedom and opportunity. This does cause us to make naive judgements about other nations and cultures.

Some correspondents suggest that no one is born into a religion; one chooses a religion. In the American experience, this is essentially correct, if we filter out the influence of parents in raising a child in a given faith. Ultimately, one may, once they're grown old enough to understand the utility of making such choices, chose one faith over another, or none at all. Americans have that freedom and few, if any, would think anything of it. Changing a faith is as unremarkable for Americans as buying a new cell phone or car.

Under Sharia, and Muslim cultural tradition, the child born of a Muslim man is also a Muslim for as long as they live. And while one may eventually choose to leave Islam, they do so, in virtually all of the Muslim world, under threat of death. In only a few Muslim nations is killing someone who leaves Islam notionally against the law, but even in those nations, the laws are virtually never enforced and anyone killing for that reason will likely suffer nothing more than an official wrist slap. In an interesting twist, horrifying to Americans, and utterly incomprehensible (requiring that the reality be ignored) to those who believe that every culture is equal, those most likely to murder one leaving Islam are the members of their own family, and great will be their glory in their religious community should they succeed.

What does this mean for Senator Obama? Let us assume that he is honest in his statements that he has adopted Christianity and has no involvement with Islam. That works just fine in America and among Americans, but not in the Islamic world, where the overwhelming majority of Muslims would see him as an apostate and would think themselves good Muslims for killing him.

If Senator Obama knows anything at all about Islam, he knows that he was born Muslim and that he studied Islam for years as a youngster. Americans might accept his protestations to the contrary, that is, after all, our religious tradition under the First Amendment, but no one should fool themselves into thinking that because he's black, hip, and multi-culti, Muslims would love Obama and thereby work hand in glove with him, improving America's standing in the world. Their first impulse, suspended only so long as it fulfilled their purposes, would be to kill him.

One is known by their enemies as well as by their friends. Being the enemy of the likes of Hamas (say, isn't Obama their man for president?) is a badge of honor.

Posted by: Mike at May 12, 2008 10:57 PM

In that Omar capitalizes "Marx" and not "American" says a lot about Omar.

Posted by: sh at May 13, 2008 12:44 AM

since you are so concerned about how the US looks to others around the world should you not be concerned that Barack has renounced the Muslum faith? The only thing that could possibly be worse than a Christian (Bush) is a Chritian who was born a Muslum and chose to renounce the "true religion", a crime punishable by death for those who you say we need to have better relations with. It seems to me that darn near anybody besideds Barack would be a better emissary to the Middle East.

Posted by: Web at May 13, 2008 07:15 AM

Craig - The republican play book is sooo 2004. This is just the 2008 version of "swift boating". They are already finding "childhood" friends who will say he went to a Muslim church and other that saw him do this and that Islamic as a child. Look for a 529 group called "Muslims for truth" to come out. Republicans KNOW they can't win without their religious base and you can't obviously campaign against "Hope", "change", race or gender. They need their signature "religious intolerance" issue (i.e. gay marriage, abortion, sexual affairs, catholism, etc) to rile their base. This is it, "he lied about being born Muslim! He's a bad Christian!" It is pretty stupid...

The Marxist label is simply to try and convince those uneducated that he is unamerican. The truth is that there is a many different versions of Marxism as there are Christian religions. Some Marxist principles have been adopted by US society (i.e. Unions for example, some would argue that OSHA and the EPA are also the product of Marxism at work). Can anyone point to a particular flavor that Obama subscribes to and some examples?

Of course feel free to simply insult and name call if that would be easier than civil discourse...

Posted by: matta at May 13, 2008 09:03 AM

matta - With a candidate whose speeches are so full of platitudes and whose individual track record is so devoid of accomplishment but full of avoiding controversial decisions, determining what Obama actually stands for is the singular issue for many voters. How do YOU read his tea leaves?

Posted by: daleyrocks at May 13, 2008 09:30 AM

I wanted to put this yesterday, but suspiciously it was not allowed. I try again:
O.K. USA has done good things for the world; but I speak about that is the principal causer of badly that is the world. You know that USA supported the apartheid in South Africa; and that thanks to the troops Angolan and Cuban, and to the noble South African people, there was achieved the liberation of Namibia and the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
USA provokes wars for interest, now they are in Iraq for oil. It is what we perceive in the world.
Do you know that Cuba helps to the poor countries with doctors and not sowing terror? Why USA wants to exhaust for hunger and diseases the cuban people? Why now that Venezuela looks for the social justice does USA see it as his enemy?

Posted by: Omar at May 13, 2008 09:50 AM

As you folks may guess, "Omar" is a Cuban government official posting from Havana.

Silly Omar.

Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 13, 2008 09:57 AM

I must respectfully disagree. I don't care what Muslim law says. If Obama says he is not and never was a Muslim, then that is the end of it so far as I am concerned. All individuals are uniquely qualified to conclusively declare their own religious faith, or lack thereof. No one can gainsay that.

Now, there are about one billion other reasons why Obama is not suitable to be our President. Let's focus on those.

Posted by: George Bruce at May 13, 2008 09:59 AM

You're obviously an intelligent guy, but I don't understand why you split your efforts between being a serious investigative journalist and a poor man's Lee Atwater. All this alchemy to conjure up the perfect narrative and definition of Obama as a fundamentalist Muslim Marxist is nothing but an exercise in deceiving mental midgets like Daleyrocks and CCG. Clap, clap, good job, but it takes no special talents. Simply writing Obama = Muslim would have sufficed. That said, b.s. like this will always offset any acclaim that your more serious efforts could otherwise garner. That is, your credibility with the unconverted will always be undermined by your low-rent smears based on b.s. and wild exaggerations.

Posted by: Craig at May 13, 2008 10:08 AM

When solid arguments are not had one comes to the offense; it is typical of your friends of the White House.

Posted by: Omar at May 13, 2008 10:21 AM

... sez the communist shilling for Obama.

Please, Omar, do continue on why America sucks and Obama is the man to remake it more to your liking.

Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 13, 2008 10:28 AM

@dale - Great question. I'm not inclined to try. My personal opinion is that Obama is the "Left"'s version of GWB. GWB came to DC with alot of the same platitudes and empty slogans and its pretty clear it was a smoke screen for an idealogical agenda. I've listened to Obama's speeches and reviewed his track record and I haven't seen any "Marxism" streaks that everyone slings around. It doesn't surprise me that a black church might have a marxist background given that the race's obvious history of class struggle in the US.

I'm simply not going to vote for him because I don't think he has the experience to be CinC. It takes more than the willingness to do what others won't. It takes the wisdom of national politics to know when to try. We are in Iraq and we need to have a commander who has some idea why we should remain and how it should be done and when is it time to leave. I think we need a CinC who realizes war is a last option, not the only one and then when war is being considered, realize more planning should go into executing it then spinning it. We need a CinC that realizes that tripling our national debt in 8 years has incredibly weakened our dollar and that balanced budgets/debt reduction is what will strengthen it (whether that takes raising taxes or reducing spending). We need a CinC that realizes that the govt's role in the free market isn't to look the other way but to hold individuals and companies accountable and prosecute illegal activities.

I don't think Obama will do any or most of that. Unfortunately, I don't think McCain will either.

Posted by: matta at May 13, 2008 10:31 AM

Craig - It's tough for you to admit that those mental midgets to whom you refer are kicking your butt in every argument on this site, isn't it? Bitter much?

Posted by: daleyrocks at May 13, 2008 10:32 AM

"Of course feel free to simply insult and name call if that would be easier than civil discourse..."

matta, it is humorous that you chose that way to end a post which is dripping with insinuation, insults, implied insults and condescension. I suppose the irony is lost on you.

Posted by: George Bruce at May 13, 2008 10:44 AM

When you do not notice arrogance and see possibility of kindness for the others, already you label the personage of communist, it is ridiculous.

Posted by: Omar at May 13, 2008 10:57 AM

@George - You can call it irony, I call it setting the bar. It takes no special talent or inteligence to sling slurs and insults and yet anyone that dares to disagree with CY usually gets called all kinds of names and insults. An actual discussion of what Marxist principles Obama believes in would be interesting. From what I've gathered, the Marxist label seems to mostly come from the fact that his church has a Marxist background of some sort. Again, I don't find that overly alarming. I am a Southern Baptist for 30 years but I don't adhere to their prohibition against alcohol. I'd imagine similar disagreements occur with other religions and their parishers.

Posted by: matta at May 13, 2008 03:01 PM

Matta, you once again are wrong. I have myself disagreed with CY, and he and I were polite throughout.

The people he is rude to are the numbwit lefties who come here and think that they can change our minds with their DNC-issued talking points.

If you had any brains you'd realize that you are not going to convince any of the regular readers/commenters here to accept any of your idiotic platitudes. Of course, that raises the question of why you keep coming here. I can only conclude that it's either overweening arrogance or blind stupidity, thinking that you're helping the Party of the Donkey.

What you're really accomplishing is nothing more than showing us the face of a typical lefty of 2008. At that, you are succeeding wonderfully.

Posted by: C-C-G at May 13, 2008 05:48 PM

Anyone who can describe the Muslim call to prayer lovely has to be a Muslim or an idiot.

For people to believe you are born into a religion well I guess you can see who the secularists are or the buffet religionists. People who have faith do not get born into it they make a decision. I could care about Snobama's religion. I do care about his endless lies and the cult worship of the sheep that follow him. Its scary. It reminds me about the film about Stalin's projectionist who witnesses the lies and horrors and then cries when Stalin dies despite his hatred for the man.

I thought Jimmy Carter and Clinton were about as low as you could go until I saw Snobama's travelling circus.

Posted by: Thomas Jackson at May 13, 2008 06:10 PM

By the way, I wish to point out that when I spoke of Matta's "idiotic platitudes," I was not including his occasional non-idiotic statements, such as the one above regarding the qualifications desirable in a Commander-in-Chief. While I may not agree with everything he said in that statement, it was certainly not idiotic.

The statement I made still applies to his truly idiotic platitudes, of which there are many examples.

Posted by: C-C-G at May 13, 2008 06:51 PM

@C-C-G - Thank you for again proving my point. I did not say that CY was impolite only that those that disagree with him are treated rudely and insultingly as you have more than adequately demonstrated. I'm not interested in convincing anyone of anything. I've already stated I'm not voting for Obama so the only one tossing platitudes around is you. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Posted by: matta at May 14, 2008 09:19 AM

See what I get for admitting that one of Matta's posts wasn't idiotic?

The question remains, though, why are you here, Matta?

Posted by: C-C-G at May 14, 2008 01:36 PM

@C-C-G - apologies for not acknowledging your most civil response yet. I will be more dilligent in the future...

I'm here to see what other people think and to contribute in dialog about areas I agree in and areas I don't. As an adult, I don't see the value in name calling and insults so I typically stay away from it. In my experience, I find that those that can only insult others do so because they have very little else to say.

I learn alot from his various posts on firearms and subjects that I haven't considered or thought about. I don't agree with all of CY's opinions and will say so when I don't. Then again, most of CY's opinions are about him disagreeing with others, so I imagine that is the point of the blog and the reason to discuss it.

Posted by: matta at May 15, 2008 12:16 PM