July 30, 2008
Choose The Facts You Want...
...as there seem to be plenty of "facts" to choose from.
James Hider in the UK TimesOnline is just one journalist of many rushing to tell the tragic story of a young Palestinian ruthlessly gunned down by an Israeli soldier:
Israeli soldiers shot dead a young Palestinian boy today during heated protests in a West Bank village close to Israel's huge separation barrier.Hammad Hossam Mussa, believed to be around nine years old, was mortally wounded by an Israeli bullet as protestors threw rocks near the West Bank close to the village of Nilin.
[snip]
Salah Al Khawaja, a member of Nilin's Committee Against the Wall, said Israeli troops fired live rounds at a group of protesters who ran into Nilin after security forces dispersed demonstrators using rubber-coated bullets.
"Protesters arrived at the wall's construction site outside the village and the soldiers started to open fire with rubber bullets and tear gas. This pushed the protesters back into the village where the boy was hit by a live bullet in his chest," he said.
It doesn't much look like a chest wound.
Other news accounts offer variations of the basic story that roughly corroborate the image, though the L.A. Times reports that the boy was in a crowd; the New York Times claims he was resting under a tree. Also, the boy's age ranges from 9, to 10, to 11, to 12 depending on the news outlet.
It's very sloppy journalism, but symptomatic of reporting from the region.
Interestingly, according to the New York Times, the Israeli Army "had no knowledge of the shooting."
The IHT states that Palestinian officials refused an Israeli request for a joint autopsy, which may cause some raised eyebrows considering the Palestinian history of faking deaths even on video. The Palestinian autopsy states that the bullet that killed the boy came from an M16, a weapon both sides have.
It will be interesting to see the results of the Israeli investigation into this case, even though judgement has already been passed in the eyes of the word's media.
Dude, that pali in the reflective vest looks like the same one that LGF nailed to the wall as a prop guy. He seems to be in just about every "child victim" photo-op in the region.
And what the hell is a 9 year old doing at a rock throwing "protest"?
Posted by: Smarty at July 30, 2008 10:37 AMWithout any reliable accounts to go on, I find it more plausible that the unfortunate one was the victim of Hamas/Fatah violence. There seems to be a bit of that going on just now.
Posted by: George Bruce at July 30, 2008 01:00 PMOr more likely a victim of a "Palestinian work accident."
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at July 30, 2008 02:49 PMDoes Israel use the M-16? I thought they were fielding Galils?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 30, 2008 02:51 PMI'd also like to point out that "rock throwing" doesn't quite tell the whole story. If you look at the picture in the TimesOnline link the "Rock Thrower" is using a sling and not just chucking rocks.
While even a thrown rock can cause injury and even death, using a sling to hurl rocks is an attack using deadly force. The reporters neglect to mention that. The sling is a cheap, simple to make, and easily concealable weapon. If Israeli forces are met by bands of Palestinians using slings no wonder they are reacting with deadly force.
Posted by: Reason at July 30, 2008 03:14 PMI say arm the Palestinians as equals to Israel. Then let them fight it out. The tragedy is that one side has only rocks while the other has a vast array of weapons to pick and choose from. Feed weapons to both sides and let them kill each other off. Problem solved.
Posted by: johnrw at July 30, 2008 03:59 PMPurple Avenger:
The Galil is an older rifle that has been mostly phased out of IDF frontline units in favor of newer weapons like the M-16/M-4. However, of the four Galil variants, three of them fire the 5.56 NATO round, the same round used in the M-16/M-4. (I believe one variant of the Galil was chambered for the 7.62) But infantry units in the IDF are using the M-16/M-4. Some frontline units are using the new Tavor, which also fires the 5.56 NATO.
Posted by: Eric at July 30, 2008 04:40 PMJohn, you want to arm genocidal islamic fascists?
Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at July 30, 2008 06:44 PMAnd the MoveOnMedia wonders why it keeps losing subscribers/viewers.
Posted by: C-C-G at July 30, 2008 06:52 PMCapitalist Infidel,
You have given 3 labels/names...
1. genocidal
2. islamist
3. fascists
of which only 1 can be possible...
1. Genocidal to whom? When you steal my land... and I fight back it's not called genocide... it's called Freedom Fighting. Not that Palestinians have 9 year old Freedom Fighters.
2. True. Islam is just a religeon.
3. Since they have no State to be fascistic with... that's laughable. I would call Israel a Fascistic State... using it's Defense Forces to do a lot more than "Defense."
Yes... there is nothing wrong with arming a people to fight back. American support for Israel's existance may be broad... but it's not Deep. It's recently lost mine. I'm voting for Ralph since Obama wears a yamika, from time to time.
Posted by: johnrw at July 30, 2008 08:43 PMThe wound in the photgraph, if real, would also be consistent with getting hit by a sling-launched rock at close range launched by someone behind the boy. In other words, a "friendly fire" incident.
Posted by: cathyf at July 30, 2008 11:47 PMcathyf -
What was this one all about? Yeah... the more I look into Israel... the more disgusted I get.
(I just started this yesterday.)
Israeli Army Suspends Cmdr Over West Bank Shooting - Sources
JERUSALEM (AFP)--The Israeli army Tuesday suspended a commander for 10 days after he failed a lie-detection test over the shooting with a rubber-coated bullet of a blindfolded and handcuffed Palestinian, military sources told
read THAT story here...
http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_885325076
Hey C.Y.
I got a "Server Error Encountered" and now there's a duplicate.
C.Y.,
I got a Server Error when posting... and now there's a duplicate. Something about scroogle.cgi
john
Posted by: johnrw at July 31, 2008 03:12 AMArming people to "fight back" when they are the ones who started it just shows serious stupidity. "null program".
The palis are willing pawns of the rest of the arab world. They and their masters need to be blown back to the stone age.
Posted by: Smarty at July 31, 2008 10:30 AM"1. Genocidal to whom? When you steal my land... and I fight back it's not called genocide... it's called Freedom Fighting. Not that Palestinians have 9 year old Freedom Fighters.
2. True. Islam is just a religeon.
3. Since they have no State to be fascistic with... that's laughable. I would call Israel a Fascistic State... using it's Defense Forces to do a lot more than "Defense.""
Okay...
1. When you wish to kill an entire nation and drive them into the sea, as Hamas et. al, have repeately said they wish to do...then that's genocide.
2. He didn't say "Islam" he said "Islamist". The former is a religion with numerous varieties and 900+ million adherents. The latter is an ideology which is a variant and some say a perversion of the aforementioned religion, which, briefly, wants to kill or compel obedience from all who are not members. The aformentioned Hamas and most other Palestinian resistance groups have more than superficial ties to the latter.
3. By your argument, Hitler would not have been a fascist until after he became Chancellor of Germany. Fascism is an ideology; one does not need to have a state to be one.
As to Israel, what do its Defense Forces do that is not Defense (if you say "Offense" prepare to be laughed at), and what does that have to do with Fascism?
Posted by: Andrew the Noisy at July 31, 2008 01:57 PMThe impressive part is how WE, the US keep supplying the Palestinians with money and aid, yet the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Brunei and Qatar, who are literally floating in gobs of oil cash a’la Scrooge McDuck and his Money Bin, they haven’t (comparatively) offered the slightest farthing in assistance.
It’s time to cut them ALL off. Stop buying our oil from them, stop sending out aid, and close up shop and let them ‘rot on the vine.’
Andrew the Noisy,
You did not read the posts I made... and their links.
Shooting 9 year old children to Death... Shooting bound(handcuffed, zip tie whatever it was) and blindfolded Palestinians... What do you call that? Defense? Or maybe it is that you have some perverse permutation of the word in mind...
I'm no Arab... but if this is the kind of treatment the neighbors are giving the Palestinians, who technically hold the only land claim to the land Israel sits on, well since 1948 anyways... then maybe it is time for the Palestinian big brothers to come to their aid.
I got news for you Israel supporters... as the world goes past peak oil... and oil gets scarcer and scarcer... the big ole USA is going to be able to offer less and less protection to the squatters on Palestinian lands over there. Hedge your bets.
You can try and shush everybody who doesn't "Just Love Israel" or paint them with a swastica and as a Hitler supporter... but still... your time is running out. China blocking the UN sanctions against Zimbabwe... shows they don't just go handing out sanctions like parking tickets. They said something about it not being important enough, doesn't shake the world up enouhh. As China's economy takes more and more control... makes you wonder what side effects will happen.
I have watched the USA from within learn to live more and more like Israelis(afraid of everything) over the last 7 years or so... and it isn't becoming of those whose fathers and mothers conquered a continent. Israelis never conquered the land they are on. They used trckery and chicanery and the Britian/UN. Ok, enough.
I did notice that story seems to have been buried.
Well, the 9 year old boy's name was Hammad Hossam Mussa.
Andrew the Noisy,
You did not read the posts I made... and their links.
Shooting 9 year old children to Death... Shooting bound(handcuffed, zip tie whatever it was) and blindfolded Palestinians... What do you call that? Defense? Or maybe it is that you have some perverse permutation of the word in mind...
I'm no Arab... but if this is the kind of treatment the neighbors are giving the Palestinians, who technically hold the only land claim to the land Israel sits on, well since 1948 anyways... then maybe it is time for the Palestinian big brothers to come to their aid.
I got news for you Israel supporters... as the world goes past peak oil... and oil gets scarcer and scarcer... the big ole USA is going to be able to offer less and less protection to the squatters on Palestinian lands over there. Hedge your bets.
You can try and shush everybody who doesn't "Just Love Israel" or paint them with a swastica and as a Hitler supporter... but still... your time is running out. China blocking the UN sanctions against Zimbabwe... shows they don't just go handing out sanctions like parking tickets. They said something about it not being important enough, doesn't shake the world up enouhh. As China's economy takes more and more control... makes you wonder what side effects will happen.
I have watched the USA from within learn to live more and more like Israelis(afraid of everything) over the last 7 years or so... and it isn't becoming of those whose fathers and mothers conquered a continent. Israelis never conquered the land they are on. They used trickery and chicanery and the Britian/UN. Ok, enough.
I did notice that story seems to have been buried.
Well, the 9 year old boy's name was Hammad Hossam Mussa.
