Given the Huffpos lack of training, weapons, ammunition, and general knowledge of when to duck, I say bring it on.

It will be a short revolution but a merry one for those left standing.

One small question - what on earth are they planning to revolt with? Lawsuits? Scurrilous MSM Op-Eds? Platoons of giant puppets?

"Wingnuts have to write about something and their readers love conspiracies."

What's that got to do with a writer at Huffington Post soliciting a revolution? A short visit to HuffPo shows one conspiracy theory after another. It is virtually all they ever write about!

"Wingnut’s love talking about “connections” and allowing their readers to “draw the right conclusion” from whatever bile it is they’ve managed to cough up during the night."

The "bile" comes from a Lefttard post. And even an idiot like yourself can see the obvious connection.

"Once they’re out of office they’ll go back to being the mostly harmless but annoying cranks they’ve historically been."

And you are a buffoon! But that is obvious given your BS comment.

funniest stuff I have ever read. Imagine Code Pink rising in violent revolution! Zeee rabblelution!!!

wtf, these ninnies can't pull 500 people at the conventions and burn a trash can without whining about the cops spraying them with tear gas.

I'm actually being referred by that hare-brained Alexandrovna.

These folks keep getting more whacked by the hour, but you're right, she needs a cell, and a padded one at that.

Aren't they revolting enough?

Heh, just smiling, thinking about Huffington trying to sneak a weapon of some sort into smelling distance of George Bush. She really does live in a dream world.

Even us liberals don't pay attention to anything at Zsa Zsa's place anymore.

So they metrosexuals are going to - what? Loot Abercrombie & Fitch, burn down Restoration Hardware, trash a Starbucks? Yeah, that'll bring down the Chimperor.

Classic agitprop, and revolution. Allege intolerable conditions, and then claim that you are "forced" to take up arms. Yawn.....

It is time we did something about this administration. Those of you dissing the dissidents would have been strong supporters of King George in 1776, just like you are now.

We are the dissidents and we see an out of control central government which has strayed from the Republic designed by our founders. We have the obligation and the right to attempt to help correct the ship of state as it falls into corruption and dictatorship. This massive bailout of financial institutions was totally preventable and was caused by the most fiscally irresponsible president in history(I won't capitalize the p for him).

Perhaps what they are worked up about is this little line from the draft of the bailout proposal:

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

So yeah....... some of us are quite pissed off. Aren't you? If not, why? I'm genuinely curious.

Even us liberals are paying attention to this article!!!

First they have to get up, avoid all the pizza boxes, get through mom yelling at them to clean up the basement, and then finally hitting the streets. Not gonna happen.

And for the intellectual midgets here the fannie mae and freddie mac problems are almost entirely democrat induced. McCain and Bush have tried to get some regulations on them for years (and they're anti regulation so you know how bad it must have been) but far left wing fanatical nutjobs like Charlie Rangel and upChuck Shumer have been blocking any regulations at all. Too much easy money going to democrats like Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, and name any democrat congressman.

My standard response to idiots, like Alexandrovna, who assert that we're already living under a Fourth Reich is:

"Well, if that's the case, why aren't you already behind barbed wire...and why am I not guarding you?"

"and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

Yep. Article 3 of the U.S. Constitution gives Congress the right to preclude SCOTUS from having any judicial review in certain cases. But the folks at HuffPo have actually read the Constitution they would so readily take to the streets to defend, haven't they? I'd expect much shouting and stomping of feet when the revolution comes.

And maybe a drum circle, then we'd know they were serious.

It's the last flail at their persecution complex.

they can only screech "BUUUUUSHHHHH is coming to get MEEEEEEEE!!!!1111!!" for 4 more months before they become total loons.

It is time we did something about this administration. Those of you dissing the dissidents would have been strong supporters of King George in 1776, just like you are now.

We are the dissidents and we see an out of control central government which has strayed from the Republic designed by our founders. We have the obligation and the right to attempt to help correct the ship of state as it falls into corruption and dictatorship. This massive bailout of financial institutions was totally preventable and was caused by the most fiscally irresponsible president in history(I won't capitalize the p for him).

Posted by: OctaviaA at September 21, 2008 07:56 AM

You misunderstand. I think we were all laughing at the thought of you actually doing anything other than screeching and whining about anything. If you want someone to talk to about your paranoid delusions, get a psychiatrist.

Octavia,

Your own words condemn you. "Preventable?" Yes. There has, indeed, been corruption, but you are so uneducated, so agendized by the Left, and so DUMB that you cannot see what is right in front of your screeching face: it is your heroes who've been looting Fannie, and Freddie, and many other corrupt acts. Now, go paint your signs, your revolution awaits!!

HeeHee

HuffPo comments aside ...

It's funny how right-wing simpletons don't even have the basic intelligence required to understand what is happening. Let me explain it for you, since you are not well-equipped intellectually. The American taxpayer is now assuming responsibility for the for the liabilities column on Wall Street's balance sheet. Private profit. Public cost.

I'll leave it to you NASCAR fans to look up the definition of "balance sheet". No, you probably won't. Better to get drunk, watch NASCAR, and blindly wave the flag. Morons.

I think a leftist revolution would be great. They would strap on their Ipod's, queue up their favorite RATM song, and we will check arms, load magazines, power up the laser sights, and reduce the nations Leftist population by millions while suffering only those casualties that can be inflicted by an acoustic guitar and a large expressicino. Sorry, Commies. We got the guns, AND the numbers. We sit around and TALK about ammunition. Your gangster friends may have a Glock 9 mm, we can field strip our AR-15's and Ruger Minis with our eyes closed. You'd lose if you tried to take over Minnesota. The population of Pilot Point, Texas is better armed and has more military veterans than the entire Huffington Post/Dkos, Msnbc, readership-viewership. My point is; Try it, please please please!!!

"Classic agitprop, and revolution. Allege intolerable conditions, and then claim that you are "forced" to take up arms. Yawn....."

Hey, isn't that what community organizers do?

The current Wall Street crisis demonstrates that capitalism is a failed ideology. Only a rigidly enforced command-and-control economy can truly provide the proles with the meager goods and services they deserve. The People's Republic of China only does what's best for its people, unlike America's desperate clinging to trickle down economic theory.

Just look at the baby food mishap in PRC - the official responsible will be given a show trial and shot. Compare that to the "punishment" doled out to Franklin Raines, James Johnson, and Jamie Gorelick. You tell me which system works.

I don't like the bailout. I also wouldn't like the depression that would occur if there were no bailout, so I'm willing to see what happens.

Speaking of education (?), has anyone claiming this is grounds for a revolution ever studied history? Or been alive for more than a decade or two? This is a big bailout, but there have been taxpayer-funded bailouts before. So, what's REALLY bothering you guys?

"Sire, The Leftists are Revolting!!!"

"You bet... they stink on ice!"

(with apologies to Mel Brooks)

OctaviaA: I won't capitalize the p [in President] for him. Wow... such resolve, such defiance.

A leader for the revolution has been found!

Bill H: HuffPo comments aside ... But that is what Bob is commenting on.
It's funny how right-wing simpletons don't even have the basic intelligence required to understand what is happening. Simpletons? If you cared to peruse the site, and perhaps most of the other "right-wing" sites you'd see a great deal of concern regarding just how disfunctional our federal government is. In fact, what is simplictic is a criticism of an invented subject based upon a post that doesn't even address that subject.

The interesting thing is that the Founding Fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson would actually agree with her. But then, they were a bunch of liberals.

I'll leave it to you NASCAR fans to look up the definition of "balance sheet". No, you probably won't. Better to get drunk, watch NASCAR, and blindly wave the flag. Morons.

Plus, we get to vote and our votes count just as much as your do. Doesn't that chap your ass?

See you at the barricades, Comrade!

No civil war is coming, just the usual riots by "disenfrachised" yootes in their exuberance of an Obama win (not likely) or in their rage over an Obama loss (likely). Locked and loaded here.

Private profit. Public cost.

Bill, this is hardly new. In fact, that's what got us into this mess. Fannie and Freddie had the implicit (and later explicit) backing of the federal government for their debts. I didn't see you bitching about it then. That backing fundamentally changed the market, forcing banks to seek business that they otherwise would have foregone. Business that results in loans made with a virtually certainty of default. How much money did Goerlick make? $26million? Where did Fannie and Freddie make their political contributions to?

You think we don't understand or care about this? We do. Some of us support the bailout plan and some don't. But just because we disagree, doesn't mean we are hayseeds that can't count past ten without taking off our shoes. I suspect there are quite a few small business owners here that know a balance sheet better than you do.

I find it deeply distressing that apparently the public in general is economically illiterate as reflected in this column and its comment section.

I have told people for more then three years the U.S. economy and dollar were on a straight trajectory for collapse. By mid 2007 we had passed the point of no return and what was left of the American economy and currency would fall because nothing would now be able to stop it. How did I know this? How is it thousands of us knew it and wrote about it?

We have 4000 years of monetary history that teaches us basic fundamentals; the laws of money. A dollar bill is not "money". It is not payment for anything; it is a promise to pay. Before Nixon took us off the gold standard our dollars had some real value but Nixon recreated them as a "fiat" currency; fiat currency is worthless and all fiat currency eventually returns to its original value which is zero; it's just a piece of paper.

I doubt anyone here has the patience for a complete history lesson so I will come to the point. I knew what would happen because I understand monetary history. If I know it then Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson know it. Do understand? Nothing like this EVER happens by accident because the alternatives to fiscal safety are known. When those options are available and ignored it tells you this result is desired; this is being done quite deliberately.

Again, without an understanding of economics (particularly on a global scale), the People do not understand how the current finacial banking behavior (credit derivatives et. al.) enriches the few; the few who might be described as Big Money. Big Money would be the same people who own all the politicians and therefore control laws, regulations, banks, 98% of the mainstream media and money creation.

What we are actually observing is the greatest transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class into the pockets of Big Money in the history of the world. This is the biggest heist ever and this robbery is being conducted in broad daylight right under the noses of the public; people just like you, because you are ignorant of the facts and apparently too ideological or intellectually limited to research the reality we face.

This economic collapse is still in its early stages. The criminal government (well documented in the book "Constitution in Crisis)and criminal financial industry is issuing propaganda and desperately acting to prevent the public and investors from understanding the gravity of our situation at least until after the election farce has played itself out.

Judging by the level of comment on this page they will probably succeed. For those who are interested in reality you might study the information available from the Ludwig von Mises Institute homepage. Von Mises predicted all that is happening quite accurately and demonstrated, through the Austrian Business Cycle, the only way in which economies and currencies can remain stable.

I hope at least some of the people here come to their senses and stop taking potshots at the messengers attempting to communicate actual facts to the deeply propagandized and misguided majority of the public....good luck to us all

This is the funniest thing I've read all day! The "Left" wants a revolution? How are they going to revolt when they don't have any guns? LOL.

By the way, bluenote, I have read von Mises, and I agree that the Austrian theory is the best economic theory. That's why I'm voting for McCain, because he is for less government interference and more free-market. Where as Obama-Biden have openly admitted that they want to "take" money from the rich and give it to the poor. Who do they think they are, Robin Hood?

Just an addition to my last post, bluenote. The reason that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac failed was because they were set up as partial government entities (stupid mistake) from the beginning and the Clinton administration and Democractic Congress passed law that made it ILLEGAL for these companies to deny subprime mortgages and loans to people who they knew would not be able to pay them back.

Bush and McCain have repeatedly called for more appropriate oversight of these to GSEs, but were repeatedly blocked by the Democrats and some Republicans. Why don't you look that up?

I suspect that bluenote isn't really on the McCain bandwagon. Maybe R0n Paul?

Joe,

You know as well as I do that the "take from the rich and give to the poor" mantra that Barry O and Joe preach is really "bend the middle class over and dork them, then put their money in another government program"...The rich Donks are too tight assed with their money to help anyone out but themselves (look at how much they give to charity, compared to conservatives). We, the middle class are the "well" that they will "tap" to fund the new plethora of programs that they feel we "need".

I'm convinced that voting for Barry and Joe is the equivalent of financial and foreign policy suicide for the country...I remember Carter, and we came close back them...

"Heroine" vs. "heroin." HA! CY, I know you hate newspapers, but you're a copy editor through and through.

I'm a liberal. And I'm pissed as hell about what's been going on lately. But I've also lived in Nicaragua and El Salvador — two countries that are still recovering from their revolutions. Talk to demobilized soldiers that fought on either side and you'll realize that even harmless mentions of a revolution are offensive. It's dumbasses like this that make us on the left look bad, which is especially stupid considering that we're holding a pretty strong political hand right now.

"Now not to brag, but yes, I've taken a heroine or two in my day."

CY - Remind me of a line from an old British comedy series

"Once a knight , always a knight. Twice a night - you're doing all right!"

CY is the MAN!

The Lefties aren't really all that upset about the current situation. They're really angry that they may not get their hands on the controls, again!!

They only object to government power when it's wielded by others than themselves.

Man the HuffPo weed smokers are fired up at Confederate Yankee! LOL! Nice job getting them all stirred up! Insert smiley face here!

"Government... should be formed to secure and to enlarge the exercise of the natural rights of its members; and every government which has not this in view, as its principal object, is not a government of the legitimate kind." So saith James Wilson in Lectures on Law, 1791. For all his insanity, Ron Paul was correct about the errors in our straying for the Constitution. To me, that fact alone is what has landed us in this mess that we are in today both with the financial bailout, and in our legal system, i.e. our Courts, which have wrought serious damage on our country. People are fed up on both sides of the aisles with the absolute corruption of Congress, and the twisting of our laws and Constitution by Leftist Courts. Including the Supremes ruling ISLAMIC TERRORISTS have American citizen rights, and child molesters cannot be put to death. But these moonbats do not seem to be exercised over those issues! Nope, they are all in a wad over issues that have not completely been fleshed out yet, and it has not occurred to them that if we drilled here and drilled now our financial situation might improve drastically. Government not looking out for our rights is certainly not legitimate.

I do not agree with Alexandrovna, but after the amnesty debacle, I can certainly sympathize with the Left in wanting a Revolution. I can also see why some are ticked at the bailout as well, but not with Bush necessarily, or even Clinton. Congress is suppose to be the check and the balance, and like it or not the GOP was in control of Congress during the Clinton era. The irritation of the Alexndrovna crowd seems to totally dismiss the Democrats like Franks and Dodd while foaming at the mouth over Bush. The difference between the two camps is that most Republicans are equal Revolutionary targeteers. We want EVERYONE involved in this fiasco to pay, and not just Democrats. We are willing to hear out what the plan is, and remember the S&L crisis history. If that was solved, then perhaps something good will come out of this mess, but we want both sides held accountable. Yet, we are the so called rich blood suckers that are so biased according to the Left; we are the ones that need to be exterminated in their Revolution.

I have been to Europe twice in my lifetime. I have seen Germany before the wall fell, and I have seen Italy desperately trying to emerge from serious socialistic insanity. We have been a host family to children from Belarus suffering from exposure to Chernobyl radiation. Their parents make $40 per month, and for every 2 weeks the children are in the U.S. their lives are extended by one year. These people on the Left for the most part have no idea how OUR country despite all the flaws is still the best on the planet. What is so inconceivable are the screaming memes from the Left at one time lived under such harsh regimes, and they are the very ones wanting US to become carbon copies of what THEY LEFT! What is up with that? Smoking wacky weed!

It makes common sense to put McCain into place to renovate Washington. IF he can cut government wasteful spending, bring oil money spent overseas home, build nuclear plants, and reduce spending then this financial insanity will not cost us as much in tax dollars. However, if Obama goes in with his $150 billion dollar wacked out, "Go Green, but I DO NOT Know With What, I'll Get Back To You Plan", and his National Health Care Plan, and "Lord Help US Capital Gains Tax Hike", then we really will see a Revolution.

FYI, if you keep trashing NASCAR you are only going to find yourselves loosing PA, OH, FL, and other states where people love NASCAR. Last time I checked there is some serious money in NASCAR. LOL! And to place the cherry on the top, we cannot help it that you Lefty hating the American flag folks left 12,000 American flags in the trash, and in turn so disrespected those that have died for THAT FLAG both Democrats and Republicans. Every time you trash our flag, you trash our military! I guess that is why you are working so hard to have their votes NOT COUNTED!

Revolution indeed! To quote a famous redneck, "That dawg don't hunt!"

Thomas Jefferson said it first. He said that it may be necessary for free men to overthrow the government when it begins to obstruct freedom. It is not a new idea in American politics. Has the Bush regime obstructed freedom? Do I really have to ask?

Has the Bush regime obstructed freedom? Do I really have to ask?

...without repercussion.

This so called financial crisis can be handled by Congress without giving up any powers to the Executive Branch.

Last time I checked the Constitution, it is unconstitutional for Congress to abdicate their powers to the Executive Branch or abridge the Constitution by legislative fiat without out first passing a Constitutional Amendment.

Why do the Republicans want Congress to commit treason, again?

"In an update, Alexandrovna is furiously trying to claim that what she wrote didn't mean what she so clearly did, and claims I must be 'near ready to call 911 and report me to the secret police,' before snorting that I must be 'taking heroine with his [my] coffee.'"

Hmmm, looks like the Right has mocked the Left into utterly abandoning their "irony" defense.

well, if it comes it will be a short revolution.

the people on the right are the ones with the guns.

I'm just saying...

I, for one, would welcome an attempted revolution by this scum on the Left. Please..please, try it. Pretty please!

Why do the Republicans want Congress to commit treason, again?

[Posted by: KEVIN SCHMIDT at September 21, 2008 02:09 PM]

It has nothing to do with treason. The Legislative branch gives up detailed governance all the time by investing executive departments with the authority to make specific regulations and take specific actions. The Legislative Branch takes up proposed legislation by the Executive Branch, in whole or in part all the time. Laws are often passed that is subsequently deemed unconstitutional by the SCOTUS and it's never considered a treasonous act.

Show where the proposals currently on the table are treasonous or admit you have no clue what you are talking about.

My son is in the Army, and after informing him of this birdbrain Huffington's remarks, he laughed and said, "The Armed Forces will not be on the side of any Leftist who tries to overthrow the government of the United States, and will forcefully put down any attempt to violently overthrown the duly elected government."

As for a coup, George Bush will walk out of government just like he came in, with class. There will be no theft at the WH like Bill Clinton, and he will ride off into the sunset.

Are any posters here actual taxpayers?

If "the taxpayers" knew the numbers, they'd be rioting in the streets.

Every $1 trillion "our" government "spends" to "save" their friends translates to $8000 per taxpayer (rounded up, based on 130 million taxpayers. Ignore the 'per citizen" numbers - non-taxpayers are not relevant.)

So far, just this year, "our" government has promised their friends over $3 trillion of taxpayer money (that we actually know of) in return for, what everyone from the NYT to the WSJ refers to as "toxic assets."

That's $24,000 per taxpayer, whose average income is $32,000/year - leaving the average taxpayer with a net-of-gross of $8000K for 08. Minus taxes at, say, a medium 25% (of $32K=$7000,) and, this year, the average taxpayer will take home an astounding $1000, or about 80 bucks a month. (And a handful of toxic assets!)

How many taxpayers voted to give AIG, Fannie, Fredie, and the rest basically their entire year's earnings as a thank you for robbing us blind?

Of course, add in another $8K for the Pentagon ($1 trillion budget,) another $8K for Iraq/Afghanistan ($1 trillion spent so far,) and another $24K to cover the $3 trillion 08 Fed budget...

And every taxpayer is on the hook - this year only, remember - for at least $64,000 apiece, or twice the average income.

Toss in each taxpayer's share of the National Debt, now approaching $10 trillion, or another $80,000 per tp... for a total of $144,000, or nearly 5 years worth of the average taxpayer's income.

These are the real, raw painful numbers that need to be shouted to every sucker - er, I mean taxpayer - in America RIGHT NOW.

Guess all the "patriots" posting here have no problem handing over their annual income to the Wall Streets criminals who have proven their love for America so strongly...

The latest economic prediction is for over one million foreclosures in 2008 and another million foreclosures in 2009, with a possible total of five million foreclosures before this Republican inspired Great Depression II is all over.

It would make better sense to bail out WE THE PEOPLE first. After all, that is how the banks got into trouble in the first place.

Bailing out the banks and Wall Street with tax dollars is corporate socialism, and is indeed fascism when big business is protected from bankruptcy while WE THE PEOPLE are not.

I thought the Republicans were against socialism and big government?
Apparently not!

Don't look now but here come the rich Chinese ready to take advantage of our real estate fire sale.

If you don't want the WalMart rich Chinese and oil rich Arabs taking over our country in a giant half-off sale, then the correct course of action is to stop the foreclosures.

Dude, this is the same three people all commenting over and over.

"(rounded up, based on 130 million taxpayers. Ignore the 'per citizen" numbers - non-taxpayers are not relevant.)"

Really, then you won't mind if Barry doesn't give 'em tax cuts paid for by my business then?

As for you liberals openly fomenting revolution or anarchy or wtf ever else it is your crack induced hysteria is telling you to do, don't. Seriously.

We have the military you so love to impugn on this side. Along with all the guns you haven't been able to confiscate yet, and lots of ammo to go with them.

From someone who is neither on the right nor the left, and is watching the country gallop its way ass backwards into an economic collapse , let me just say: we as Americans seem to have reduced ourselves into a group of ignorant, nasty, petty, dishonest jackasses who are only able to bray and screech at each other while the country is going up in flames. When it all comes down, and it WILL, we will have to re-establish a nation based on ethics and self control, as opposed to the corrupt, vicious self serving pigsty we have now.
And I am glad that I have moved deep into the countryside and created a sustainable way of life far from the cities, where all hell is going to break loose as food becomes more and more expensive and scarce, people can't heat their homes and homelessness confronts more citizens. All of you who can't come up with anything better than finger pointing and juvenile insults, good luck to ya. You're going to need it.

I, for one, would welcome an attempted revolution by this scum on the Left. Please..please, try it. Pretty please!
Posted by: templar knight at September 21, 2008 02:20 PM

Yes, I'm sure you just can't wait to blow away some of your friends, relatives and neighbors.

Show me where in her article she proposes a violent and bloody overthrow of the government?

What she is actually proposing is guaranteed under the Constitution.

We have the right to peaceably assembly and we have a right to have our grievances addressed.

In other words, WE THE PEOPLE can march on Washington and stay there until we decide to leave. Plus we have a right to impeach and remove anyone in the government that we want to. WE THE PEOPLE are the boss of them, they are not the boss of us. Collectively, WE THE PEOPLE don't need their permission to do anything. They need our permission to do everything.

Maybe she plans to bring Bill Ayres and Bernadine Dorn out of retirement?

Why do the Republicans want Congress to commit treason, again?

[Posted by: KEVIN SCHMIDT at September 21, 2008 02:09 PM]

Laws are often passed that is subsequently deemed unconstitutional by the SCOTUS and it's never considered a treasonous act.
Posted by: Dusty at September 21, 2008 02:20 PM

The reason why the SCOTUS never considers it a treasonous act when they overturn an unconstitutional law is because in these court cases no one is being prosecuted for treason. The SCOTUS decisions are limited to the the laws in question, not the treasonous politicians who voted for them. That would take separate criminal prosecutions.

"...can't wait to blow away some of your friends, relatives, and neighbors."

I don't have any friends, relatives or neighbors who are Leftist scum, you ape. And again, if a violent overthrown was attempted by Leftists, I would do everything in my power to stop it. As a citizen of these United States, that is my duty.

Revolutions don't have to be armed rebellions, numbnuts. They can take the form of boycotts, strikes, sit-ins, and other passive resistance.

I agree with her, this is a power grab, of the sort a "rugged individiualist" such as yourself (one who is so fond of the rights of states and individuals that he claims pride in a treasonous revolt against the fear of such a grab) would be opposed to it.

With 16 years in the army I (an OIF vet) am what you think of as, "a leftist". Push come to shove, and a revolt become needful (as the Founding Fathers pointed out might happen, and for them, and later for those traitors who fought to defend slavery) I will be with her, and against you.

There are things which are not acceptable to free men. Allowing for tribunes and consuls is not among them. Feel free to cower in your little corner of the internet; casting barbs and jeers at those with whom you disagree. But don't mistake your myth of "the Left" for the way of the world. We have hope in the system, but there are an awful lot of us who know our away aroud the rifle and the foxhole.

And push come to shove, I, at least, know I; in fact, I can kill people. Most of the jackasses who bray about how "the Liberals" won't be able to stand can't say that.

Boy, do they have me scared! They do come well armed with posters and they do know how to shout! How long can they last when they have no real weapons for a revolution/civil war when they don't believe in the 2nd Amendment?

The sheer mind numbing economic, political and historic ignorance spewed by the Huffington Post refugees in these comments defies belief.

"It's a huge conspiracy to transfer wealth from the poor to the rich"

Well if that's the case, then I guess all of the left wing Democrat morons who used the CRA to force lenders to lower their underwriting standards so that low income families could have access to the loans that led to the meltdown, I guess they were in on the conspiracy too.

MORONS.

The fact is that socialistic state meddling in the economy is what got us into this mess in the first place. Those loans would have NEVER been given if the state hadn't intervened, and those loans are what set up this whole collapse. Sew a button on THAT, you left wing clowns.

The left has for decades been doing everything it can to sabotage the capitalist system. And whenever it gets results, it blames capitalism for the mess.

A fantastic case of "chutzpah", akin to a murderer blaming his crime on the existence of his victim.

ACORN, the group that was largely behind the abuse of the CRA in blackmailing lenders to give loans to low income minorities, was founded by one Mr. George Wiley, who in the late 60's made a serious attempt to "bankrupt capitalism". He organized hundreds of thousands of blacks to storm welfare offices and stage sit ins and demand every single last shred of welfare entitlement that it was possible for them to have. In doing so, he didn't manage to bankrupt capitalism but he did manage to almost triple the numbers of blacks on welfare in just a few years.

How ironic that it was Wiley's organization, ACORN, which years later would try the same crap by forcing banks to give bad loans to the poor.

Whenever you interfere with the intricate workings of the free market, which are the net sum of millions of individuals trading with each other for their own self interest on their own mutually beneficial terms, you screw things up to the point where more interference is needed to put things right, and so on - until the whole thing comes crashing down.

The only reason why Bush has to now play at being a "socialist" is to fix the mess that this interference wrought in the first place. A student of the Austrian school of economics would favor no bail outs and would prefer to let whatever was "bad" come crashing down as they should, but unfortunately that would be political suicide.

You moron leftists would damn Bush if he didn't bail them out, and are damning him because he is. He can't win. And you stupid motherf*ckers started this whole thing in the first place. Damn you all.

America is not being taken over by Liberals and Leftists, it is being taken over by Neocon-Fascists.

"The country's conservative moralists shake their finger at low-income home buyers who dared to make a grab for a humble piece of the American dream. When the dream turns nightmarish, the foreclosed-upon are held personally accountable for their bad debt.

But there's no personal accountability for those who actually understood the fine print behind those shaky loans, because they wrote it. No one tells them to hand back their bonuses. If they are eventually forced out, they walk out with huge paychecks.

WHEN YOU are too big to fail, you are bailed out.

When you are too small to save, you are down and out on the street.

Some aspects of the Wall Street crisis are tough to understand. But one economic principle is pretty clear.

When a really big company goes bust, the little guy pays with his home or job. But those CEOs and money managers who boldly march their corporate empires into bankruptcy just get paid millions and millions of dollars more."

Welcome to Fascist America, former home of the former middle class. Your nest egg and Constitution have been foreclosed upon by the corporatocracy.

And you thought a revolution had to be bloody. Well in the recent revolution, the only thing that is red is the red ink of a bankrupted United States, now a fully owned subsidiary of rich oil Arabs and WalMart Chinese.

America is not being taken over by Liberals and Leftists, it is being taken over by Neocon-Fascists.

"The country's conservative moralists shake their finger at low-income home buyers who dared to make a grab for a humble piece of the American dream. When the dream turns nightmarish, the foreclosed-upon are held personally accountable for their bad debt.

But there's no personal accountability for those who actually understood the fine print behind those shaky loans, because they wrote it. No one tells them to hand back their bonuses. If they are eventually forced out, they walk out with huge paychecks.

WHEN YOU are too big to fail, you are bailed out.

When you are too small to save, you are down and out on the street.

Some aspects of the Wall Street crisis are tough to understand. But one economic principle is pretty clear.

When a really big company goes bust, the little guy pays with his home or job. But those CEOs and money managers who boldly march their corporate empires into bankruptcy just get paid millions and millions of dollars more."

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/21/hanging_the_little_guy_out_to_dry/?s_campaign=8315

Welcome to Fascist America, former home of the former middle class. Your nest egg and Constitution have been foreclosed upon by the corporatocracy.

And you thought a revolution had to be bloody. Well in the recent revolution, the only thing that is red is the red ink of a bankrupted United States, now a fully owned subsidiary of rich oil Arabs and WalMart Chinese.

Acording to Phil Gramm, James is a whiner.

It was a Republican Congress that took away the safeguards that allowed the subprime fiasco to occur in the first place. It was a Republican Congress that looked the other way when the subprime fiasco actually took place.

How very telling that the only people I see threatening to use guns and commit violence are a few mentally unstable, radical right posters in this ridiculous forum down the Republican rabbit hole.

Click on my name.

Revealing on a few different levels, as is the present conversation.

Alexandrovna would appear to be a "community organizer" on a scale equal to BHO. No mere coincidence, that.

KEVIN SCHMIDT:

I've yet to encounter one of you left wing morons who actually knows what the word "fascist" means in the first place.

Hint: It's a political ideology which is a hairs breadth away from the socialism that leftist "liberals" like Obama have supported their whole lives. The Nazis were the "National Socialist Party" after all.

And how typical of the left to absolve homeowners who took on shaky loans of all responsibility for their actions. The left after all sees the "common man" as a baby, incapable of making rational decisions for himself - someone who, naturally, needs to have his life run for him by socialists who know what's best for him.

When you have a low income and you sign up for a loan that is worth TEN times your income, you don't have the responsibility to stop and think "now, hang on...is this a good idea"?

Of COURSE you do! There is no "fine print" about it. It's a bad idea from the OFF.

Answer the question - if lenders had been allowed to go ahead as they were, applying their own strict standards of underwriting in denying loans that they knew were a risk, would the sub-prime crisis have happened?

If it were a vast conspiracy by big-money to steal taxpayers money, then surely they would have lowered their own underwriting standards without the state forcing them to do so through the blackmail of the CRA?

Schmidt, you sound like you've read one too many Chomsky books. You're a childish mess of theatrical left wing rhetoric and you should be ashamed of yourself.

A nice scenario would be riots or other forms of disruptive behavior if Obama loses by a whisker. Congress would probably get a makeover toward the right: independents would most likely shift right too. It could then be Palin vs Hillary in a struggle to the political death. One can always dream. The left doesn't have all the fantasies.

Why is it when Conservatives or Republicans want to argue with facts and historical evidence, the Left's responses are vile, name calling insults? Just wondering.

As a matter of fact I have a college degree and my husband has his Masters. So yes, we do have and education beyond high school. However, it is not my belief that one must have a college education, or a high school diploma to understand corruption or ethics violations via Frank, Dodd, Gorelick, Obama, Biden, etc., etc. It seems you Lefties are really exorcized over this. Perhaps it is the connections of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ACORN? Bad news there! LOL! It appears that local papers and news outlets were on the horn about this prior to the GOP picking up the matter. Perhaps it is because this could impact the Congressional and Presidential elections? The smell of mendacity and fear are quite overwhelming! Anybody noticing those tightening Congressional races and lack of $$$ THE ONE has to give to those Congressional races? LMAO! Told Harry Reid to buzz off!

But I would be willing to bet your ire is NOT over this country, (yes, I am questioning your patriotism), because all you want to do is damn Bush, damn our military, damn this country, damn free speech, damn people in small towns, damn Bibles, damn our rights, and turn personally vicious towards anyone that opposes your point of view. Yes indeed, "angrily belched" does aptly describe those who have not even made it to the forrest to see the trees.

I guess now that I have questioned your patriotism, I am going to be called a racist too! LOL! You know this schtick is getting old, and people are seeing through it despite the smoke and mirrors and vile name calling. But keep it up and see how far you get with the voters between the parentheses!

From Here's some additional perspective concerning the economic problems we're currently facing. Excerpt:

"Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

"The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory.""

To fail to take that into account is to be profoundly incurious and blinded to one of the most prominent - even pivotal - factors involved in the debacle.

KEVIN SCHMIDT:

If I remember rightly, the bill co-authored by Gramm gave financial institutions greater freedom to merge with each other - and Democrats like Maxine Waters bitched that the Community Reinvestment Act was being undermined.

It was of course, the Community Reinvestment Act which forced lenders to give bad loans in the first place.

Republicans are not innocent in this - they never have been. Conservatives have not done nearly enough to defend the free market and capitalism as they should. They looked the other way as the the CRA lowered standards - hell, some even encouraged it as a path to an "ownership society".

Well, you don't become an ownership society by forcing lenders to give loans to people they had previously, and rightly, declared to be too much of a risk.

You say that it was a Republican Congress that "took away the safeguards" which led to the crisis? Bullsh*t! The "safeguards" were already in place before Carters CRA - they were the rational, objective standards that free acting lenders had in deciding who was a bad risk or not. The CRA took those safeguards away in the name of "political correctness" and the idea that giving low income families loans to buy houses they couldn't afford was more important than worrying about whether or not they could seriously afford to pay back those loans further down the line.

Which "Republicans" do you see threatening to use guns? The ones who want to protect their right to own a gun to protect their family from the sub-human scum who might invade their home with weapons? What would a left wing liberal choose to do in such a case? Offer his family up for slaughter?

Let's not forget that throughout history it has been the LEFT that has been the most inhuman, the most violent, the most oppressive, the most controlling. Over 100 million people murdered by their own Marxist governments in the 20th Century. Stalin killed many times more people than did Hitler, yet I STILL see liberals walking around with red t-shirts bearing a yellow hammer and sickle. I STILL see them walking around with Che Guevara t-shirts on, advocating the kind of left wing socialist revolutionary hell which imprisoned millions on an island from which thousands attempt to escape in shark infested waters every year.

It's about time the infantile left grew up. It's getting embarrassing.

BUBBA:

Capitalism went bad BECAUSE of regulation and state intervention. In this respect moreover, what we had wasn't even capitalism to begin with. We have always had a mixed economy, a mixture of capitalism and statism.

Nobody is blaming "the average working person" for this mess; the "average working person" did not take out stupid loans they could obviously not pay back. Nor is anyone exclusively blaming the people who DID take out the loans. They were stupid, but so were the people who forced lenders to lower their underwriting standards to give them the loans in the first place.

I know what the definition of "fascist" is thank you very much - and it barely resembles anything which is happening now. This is a word that childish, infantile leftists have thrown around like confetti at a wedding for the last 8 years. It's a word you use for theatrical effect in the absence of any real intellect, any real objective sense of value.

I will ask the question again. Given that Bush was not to blame for the sub-prime crisis, and given that the tired politics of the left largely WERE to blame, what would you prefer Bush do about it?

If he didn't bail them out, you'd be screaming that he "didn't care about the consequences". He is bailing them out, and he's a "fascist".

It's getting to the point with you morons that rational people are just going to have to start ignoring you in the same way they politely ignore the mentally ill ravings of a demented lunatic on a street corner.

A part of me wishes they would try.

If I had one wish it would be to explain to every leftist what "fascism" is so I'd never have to hear or read the proud ignorance that streams from their keyboards/spittle flaked lips. Oh well. We can all dream.

What happened to the free market you guys used to love so much? All the lectures about welfare queens and not sucking the govt teat? This bailout is nothing except a chance for the corporate welfare queens from both wings of the one national corporate party to steal from us all and more importantly to steal from our kids.

This is the time for everyone to forget your party and remember your country. The free market dictates these companies should fail if they've screwed up. No welfare for them.

Right now, Pelosi(worth 500 mill) and Paulson(worth 350mill)and the whole gang of filthy rich crooks who run this country are in a back room selling you out. Wake up!

Good thing I'm well stocked with .22LR ammunition. With the legendary weapons skills of liberals opposing me, it'll be a short and hilariously slapstick revolution indeed. Of course, the libs might invite their natural allies, such as the Russians, Cubans, and fellow Marxists of all stripes, which would prolong things a bit, but goodness gracious, think of the opportunity to do away with them all at once!

Leftard Revolutionary Checklist:

Weapon: AR-15 - Check
Ammunition: 500 rounds minimum - Check
Training: Military Expert Marksman - Check
Opposition: Whining Leftards - Check

Probable Result: Lots of Dead Whining Leftards

Excellent!

If anyone here actually knew anything about the Preamble to the declaration of independence it states that " That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." that means when the government takes away our rights it is our duty to stand up and revolt, this is called the right of revolution.

This is the coolest thread I've read in a while.

Not even a little surprise to me. This isn't the first time I've heard Liberals argue for a violent overthrow of the entire country.

I try to calmly explain why that would be counterproductive, yet they're pretty dead set in their ways. With plenty of screeching about their heroes Che, Osama, and sometimes a nod to Fred Phelps.

The Liberals are really going bananas about this topic. They must feel pretty strongly about their revolution.

And heroin apparently.

Yes. Do not notice the transfer of powers. Nothing to see here.

YUUGAL:

For the last time - the free market was never allowed to exist. Conservatives have done more than so-called "liberals" to champion its cause but they have done not nearly enough to defend it.

The reason generally being, widespread economic ignorance. It would do the whole country some good to read for instance Henry Hazlitt's "economics in one lesson", a timeless classic which explains the problem perfectly - most people cannot think "long term" or "wider picture" in economics and can only think of what's best for this group or that group in the short term.

The problem is politics. Since the superiority of economic freedom is generally not explainable in simple soundbites which sound good on the news, and since the average Joe would prefer that the state protected their narrow little area of life through economic intervention without thought for the wider picture, it is generally impossible for a politician to propose more economic freedom without being accused of being mean, heartless and uncaring.

Yet economic growth can only occur with economic freedom. Man must be allowed to trade with his fellow man and act of his own volition, so long as he doesn't interfere with the rights of his fellow man to do the same. The thing that makes capitalism superior to all other systems is in the freedom of its price mechanisms and the fact that it's merely the sum total of millions of individuals pursuing their own wishes, trading with each other for their mutual benefit (whether they're trading their skills, their labor or their products).

As soon as the state interferes with this mechanism, it starts a cluster of errors which encourages the state to interfere more, and so on.

The current bailout would not have been politically necessary if it had not been for this economic interference. Of course, it is not necessary at all - the best thing in the long run would be to let all of the rotted wood come crashing down, to release their capital back into the system to flow into better structures, but of course this is politically impossible since it would mean having to go through a spectacular crash in which many more lost their jobs and their homes. If Bush had allowed this to happen, he would be accused of "exposing Americans to the horrors of the free market" and not doing enough to help them.

So, he bails the economy out. This may not end in catastrophe, but it will prolong the problem far longer than it would have if he'd allowed it all to fall. Take the Depression as a lesson. The crash which led to it was caused by government interference in the economy, and FDR's misguided attempts to help the poor in his New Deal resulted in the Depression lasting for years longer than it should have, causing unspeakably more pain and suffering than was necessary.

I know it's exciting for college age kids to think in terms of grand conspiracies to turn us into a fascist state and steal all of our money, but that just isn't the case at all. It turns out that we're being subject to yet another lesson about the idiocy of economic statism, a lesson which in all likelihood we're not likely to learn (again)

So just because you conservatives think you so clever switching one letter in Obama's name making it Osama does not mean that he has anything to do with the terrorist leader. and since when had any liberal been in favor of Fred Phelps. If you did any research into why Ernesto "Che" Guevara is so well liked you would see that he did excatly what we want now, he overthrew a tyrannical government he had no idea what Castro would eventually turn into.

JAYKOB:

Which rights have the government taken away from you?

Furthermore, given that most of the country disagrees with your left wing fantasies of revolution, and given that a socialist revolution (I know y'all want a socialist revolution - I've seen the Che t-shirts) would be a direct abrogation of the rights of he majority of Americans who do not want such a revolution (i.e. all those who do not wish to be enslaved by a socialist state), I am led to wonder - would YOUR revolution justify COUNTER revolution by the rest of us?

*EDIT*

So just because you conservatives think you are so clever switching one letter in Obama's name making it Osama does not mean that he has anything to do with the terrorist leader, and since when has any liberal been in favor of Fred Phelps. If you did any research into why Ernesto "Che" Guevara is so well liked you would see that he did excatly what we want now, he overthrew a tyrannical government he had no idea what Castro would eventually turn into.

JAYKOB:

Che did no such thing. If the revolution he and Castro created in Cuba was what people wanted, then how come Cubans are prepared, in their millions since the revolution, to take to flimsy rafts across shark infested waters to escape to a superior country (America)?

Che was a nasty, cowardly son of a bitch - he had thousands executed for the crime of disagreeing with him and wanting to own property, and he had thousands more sent to hard labor camps for such crimes as political disobedience and having long hair.

If Bush tried ONE TENTH of what Che Guevara inflicted on Cubans, you left wing morons would be SCREAMING BLUE THUNDER.

The son of a bitch even shot a pregnant woman in the stomach at close range.

I know fine well why Che is so well liked - because you lefties LOVE the idea of oppressive socialist regimes that kill and imprison their own citizens, just so long as they're happening to people thousands of miles away and not to YOU.

Oh yes, and you're also sexually attracted to him. Am I being blunt enough?

How can you truthfully ask me what rights we've had taken away from us, how about one of the most important ones of all, THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, the seperation of church and state, equal rights to all Americans not just straight white men, but i will give you this, that last one i guess hasn't been taken away from us but actually we've never had it.

And for the socialism, what the hell are you talking about, we don't idolize Che's political views just his ability to mobilize the people and overthrow an oppressive governement.

"If you did any research into why Ernesto "Che" Guevara....."

OK, I've done a little research into Che. I know that he murdered hundreds of innocent people with his own hands. Is that why you like him, jay?

For one this Che had nothing to do with the current cuban government, and if no one wanted the revolution a group of 6 revolutionaries could not take down Fulgencio Batista's regime all on their own. And Bush has actually done more then one tenth, have you not heard of GITMO, and The Iraqi war of terror.

But i do love how you don't have enough reasons to justify your claim you have to resort to saying how we are all in love with che.

No if i liked someone who killed innocent people i would have voted for bush.

Uh, jaykob, if you had your freedom of speech taken away, how can you be speaking freely? And you are still free to worship or not, so how is there no separation of church and state? And you have equal rights and more, just not the only rights, which is what you scum really want.

If you did any research what so ever you should see that in 1954 when he helped overthrow the Guatemalan president Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán he AMERICAN CIA actually assisted him.

If you are so far gone that you believe on freedom of speech still i have no idea how to convince you. for the seperation of church and state, just look at most court houses, the ten commandments are normally posted somewhere, you have to swear on the bible, the reason gays can't marry is because bush says it is unchristian. how does anyone that is not a stright white male have equal rights, gays can't marry, women have less pay and in some states can't even have an abortion, and countless number of african americans can't vote.

The thing I find most ironic about the HuffPo commenters here is that they are here at all. Ever try to make a dissenting post at any lefty site? Poof, you post is deleted and bang, you're banned. Such hypocrites.

So i can actually assume that no one has done any research on the subject since one of my comments was completly false, che assisted Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán and The CIA had tried to overthrow them.

It's funny and sad how our "liberal" socialists are all worked up about the nationalization of big American companies - after all, isn't that what you guys have been preaching all along? Come on, komrades, Fannie and Freddie and AIG now belong to THE PEOPLE! Why aren't you celebrating?

The People, HA, more like the privileged.

KornKob, in what states would it be illegal to have an abortion? And PLEASE tell me in which state it is illegal for blacks to vote. I'm sure Jesse and Al would be quite intersted to know.

It is not illegal in any state for blacks to vote but that doesn't stop the polling places to not allow them to vote for any number of reasons, perfect example the 2000 election. and for the abortion thing, im sorry i regretfully misspoke. but bush and the conservative right have been trying to outlaw it, stating its murder.

"So i can actually assume that no one has done any research on the subject since one of my comments was completly false"

One?

Even Barack Obama, who opposed the Iraq troop surge, has finally acknowledged its success. But some of his fellow Democrats in Congress apparently remain unconvinced. Earlier this week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin teamed up to block a vote on a bipartisan resolution "recognizing the strategic success of the troop surge in Iraq" and thanking our men and women in uniform for their efforts.

This is naked partisanship.

Yes only one, which other do you assume are wrong

Jaykob,
Here is your hero..... There would be several of Castro's cronies questioning a prisoner. Che would walk into the room, listen for a while and then take out his gun and shoot the prisoner in the head. Then he would turn around and walk out without saying a word. Castro's men all took this to mean that they could have easily been on the receiving end. Che was a murdering thug, in charge of Castro's prison. He was responsible for murdering over two thousand Cubans in that position and you equate Gitmo and this administration to that...hmm what a maroon.

Publius!
Well spoken. Traitor.
I'll meet you on the field.

It's really quite hysterical to read the thoughts of the right-wing when confronted with the idea of revolution. For some reason, they think that just because part of the left is anti-gun, we all are.
I'm a Liberal. I have more guns than you could possibly believe (and, quite possibly, more than you could count; they were a willed gift from an also-liberal grandfather who built up quite a collection over the years). I was taught at age five how to handle, care for, maintain and be safe with guns. I went hunting for whitetail for the first time at age six, and got a clean kill at age seven on a fifteen point buck. I had to field dress it myself, and I was barely as tall as its shoulder. I can take guns apart, clean them, put them back together, and load them blindfolded. I can hit a pistol target at 50 yards with a 5-inch group in a Weaver stance. I can hit a target from 500 yards within 2 inches with a rifle and a bi-pod. I have land, I have ammo, and I have more intelligence than to scream revolution.
But for you people threatening the wholesale slaughter of the left with one more 'revolution' comment, remember that not ALL of the left-wing party are against guns. I can personally guarantee that if there is a revolution, you're going to be sorely surprised by what We The People can do (when I say We The People, I mean the revolutionaries; classically, in our own history, We The People meant 'the people not willing to take this crap from the government anymore. Whose side are YOU on?)
AND, just to clarify: If one more person makes the stereotypical "weed smoking liberal" joke again, I'll be forced to bring about the fact that most meth addicts are from the poverty-stricken areas of the country, the areas that are so violently racist and bigoted that they will under no circumstance support Obama, simply because of his skin color.
So.
I'm happy to say that I'm aligned with the occasional joint smoking hippy and not the meth-infused 'gentry' of the conservative party.

And for you right-wingers screaming bloody murder at the thought of socialism, I point you to the former ELECTED PRESIDENT of Chile Salvador Allende, who was overthrown by the CIA in the 70's because of his socialist views, regardless of the fact that he was democratically elected (because "The United States will not have this communist experiment in 'our back yard'".) And who was installed as 'president' afterwards? Pinochet. That's right, our Central Intelligence Agency helped to overthrow a democratically-elected president and install one of the most horrifically sadistic dictators in recent memory, who tortured and killed tens of thousands of people because they disagreed with him.
Or I point you to the current MSM's portait of Hugo Chavez, the ELECTED PRESIDENT of Venezuela, who is demonized by the United States media because he disagrees with our policies. Yet what you have to understand is that there are other countries out there who are trying to make life worth living on their own soil. In fact, ALL of Latin America has been oppressed and exploited by the United States, England, France, Germany, and even the Danes!
And so, when you degrade Socialism as a poor governmental choice because YOU don't agree with it, realize that there are people who would sooner kill you to get through you on their way home than be a part of Capitalist United States. You can sit in your house on your computer (as I am doing RIGHT NOW) and you can make outlandish claims about your opposing political party, or you can go and get a passport and see the world and see how millions upon BILLIONS of people live in our shadow.
But... That would mean leaving your comfort zone. That would mean admitting to yourself that you're not always right and the things you've been taught aren't always 100% accurate.
You accuse liberals of being on soapboxes, but youre doing the same thing, quoting their idiocies and making your own.
Heck, I'm doing it too. But you know what? I've lived in other countries. I've slept on dirt floors and eaten what would be turned down by 99% of our countrymen, and I've done all this before my 23rd birthday. I'm young and I'm quite probably ignorant, but at least I can say that in my littlest fragment of dead skin between my finger and fingernail, I have more experience in the world than you do.
Try survival without your credit card before you think to criticize someone for their ideas.

Actually you are mistaken sir, he over saw the appeals of the tribunal court during the 5 months he was commander of the prison, occasionally he put some of Batista's men to the firing squad, but these men where the ones that were responsible for the two hundred thousand innocent cubans that were killed at the hands of Batista. that is nothing compared to the torture executed at Gitmo.

Jaykob, you moron, freedom of speech is what you are using RIGHT NOW to claim you don't have it.

That's as stupid as posting to say the Republicans have taken away your Internet access. The very fact that you can make the accusation proves it's false.

OHIO LIBERAL

I applaud you i agree that most liberals aren't gun hating lesbian hippies as we're made out to be, i do not own guns but not because i hate them, because my fiance does not wish to have them in the house. The right to bear arms is an extremely important one.

I've allowed this threat to run relatively unfettered, with exception of some posts that were deleted for obvious trolling or gratuitous profanity. but I'm growing quite tired of those on both sides chiming in with threats against one another.

If you want to seehow big each other's raisins are, by all means do so, just do it somewhere else.

The only reason that i am able to speak freely online is because the government has not been able to find a way to successfully censor it without showing thier tru facist nature. if you think freedom of speech is still around go to any anti war demonstration and see how quickly the police turn violent on the protesters.

JAYKOB:

How has your freedom of speech been taken away from you? You have more freedom of speech than in any other country in the world. Why don't you go and see how much "freedom of speech" they have in your socialist "paradises" such as Cuba and Venezuela, where political opponents are jailed and TV stations that don't tow the party line are shut down.

Name me one way in which your rights have been taken away re: the separation of church and state.

All Americans have equal rights. Name me one way in which they don't.

You don't idolize Che's political views but you idolize his ability to....WHAT? Mobilize the people? Sure - he mobilized many of them to firing squads and work camps. Screw you lefty - you're scum. Che overthrew an oppressive government? For all its faults, the government before Castro's was FAR less oppressive! Che installed a government which imprisoned everyone and prevented them from leaving the island. IS THAT YOUR IDEA OF NON-OPPRESSIVE? You left wingers are perhaps the most intellectually shallow, most ignorant people in existence in the world today. Words fail me.

JAYKOB:

Che had nothing to do with the current Cuban government? How many Cuban governments have there been since the revolution? Let's see now. Number of elections held in Cuba since Castro installed himself as dictator............0

Sure, there were more than 6 revolutionaries. But there were far more people who didn't want to be imprisoned on an island in terrible economic conditions with no freedom and no hope of democracy. Are you really this stupid?

I have heard of Gitmo - it's a paradise in which Islamic terrorists are treated like they're in a holiday camp. I have also heard of the war on terror - it's a JUST war fought against sub-human Islamo-fascist scum whose ambition is to kill all non-Muslims.

Lastly - of COURSE you're all in love with Che! You've been masturbating over THAT picture for decades now. It's about time it stopped.

Posted by: James at September 21, 2008 04:20 PM

Better look up the definition of fascism. You are certainly confused and wrong.

JAYKOB:

The posting of the ten commandments in a court house affects your rights....HOW?

Gays not being able to get married affects your rights....HOW?

Women have less pay because overall, they're doing jobs which bring in less pay. Besides which, when a company offers you a job at a certain wage and you accept it of your own volition, that affects your rights....HOW?

Not being able to murder an unborn child affects your rights...HOW? You have a "right" to murder children? I don't think so.

Which African Americans "can't vote"?

This just gets dumber and dumber.

Jayknob

You are truly deluded if you believe the government is trying to censor your online free speech. And the concept that a fascist government would try to hide that fact is laughable. Most socialist governments, like Venezuala for example, are proud of their fascist nature.

As for Che, that psychotic murderer who finally was put down like the mad dog he was, the quote of his I remember best is “If in doubt, kill him” . If you are running from fascists, you need to stop glamorizing Che.

You really have no idea how Batista ran cuba before Castro and Che came along. and just because most countries have less freedom of speech then us does not make our perfect, thats like saying Hitlers final solution was decent just because Mao killed more people for less reasoning. i will admit that we do have more freedom than most countries, but no where near what the constitution says we should have. and since when did political debate become who can degrade his opponent more, if i have offended any one i am truly sorry and hope you accept my apology. As for being intellectually shallow i think the apotomy of being intellectually shallow is resorting to personal attacks to defend your point of view.

All these "riots in the streets" comments from the pro-Obama MSM are just so much nonsense. Just like the comments from folks who promised to leave the country if Bush were elected (now THAT was a dumb thing to say--talk about motivating the Republican base!).

What DOES worry me is all this talk about initiating criminal investigations of members of the Bush administration, possibly including Cheney and Bush. This would truly be a hugely negative step in our historically peaceful transition of governments.

As awful as an Obama presidency would be (I think Obama has some sort of Vice Presidential candidate...), it is unlikely that he could destroy the country in a short four years. We would have to pay the price of his inevitable idiocies, but we would survive him. Just as we survived Jimmy Carter.

But if the Democrats begin the tradition of persecuting those leaving power the price we as a country could pay could be quite high indeed. Using Justice and Treasury to pursue political enemies can be done by both sides. And then what is the next escalation step? Massive voter fraud to hold onto power (sort of like the voter fraud being perpetrated by Obama's Acorn contractors?)?

I think even less of that talk than of the drooling nonsense of cowardly leftists as they speak from the protected positions in the MSM.

Ohio liberal,

Killed a fifteen pointer at age seven and field dressed it all by your lonesome, huh? Very impressive if true, but I doubt it.

And if so many in Latin America are so happy with their governments, then why in the hell are they trying to come here by the tens of millions?

As for the isms, I have no doubt that the propaganda propagated by socialist, communist, and fascist systems might convince morons to do things that are contradictory to logical thought. Very much like what I see coming from you. But one thing can't be argued, that hundreds of millions of people have been killed by communism, fascism and socialism. For you to sit in your home and defend it is disgusting to me.

james

Ill go through these one by one

The posting of the ten commandments in a court house affects your rights....HOW?

As an Athiest i would hate to be tried in a court that is obviously pro christianity.

Gays not being able to get married affects your rights....HOW?

Not me personally but if i was a gay male i could not marry my significant other.

Women have less pay because overall, they're doing jobs which bring in less pay. Besides which, when a company offers you a job at a certain wage and you accept it of your own volition, that affects your rights....HOW?

again not me personally but women are payed less on average for equal work.

Not being able to murder an unborn child affects your rights...HOW?

an unborn child is not living so it is not murder, but are you telling me that if you sister was raped you think she would have to deal with that child the rest of her life.

KEVIN

How have i confused the defintion of Facism?

Iconoclast

If the us government were to show thier true colors so dramatically they know that the majority of the us population would rise up in oppostion.

I think Larisa is mostly embarrassed by the fact that people beyond her tiny circle of conspiracy theory embracing fringe libtards read her post. It's funny what sunlight does to roaches and other vermin.

Ohio Liberal

A six year old hunting whitetail deer? Must have been with one of those inherited liberal guns that you field-strip blindfolded. You know, one of those ultra lightweight longarms with no recoil....

Just like socialism....a complete lie that doesn't bear up under examination.

how does the criminal investigation of bush and cheny scare you, thats like saying bringing manson or ted bundy to justice was a bad thing.

errr, kobber,

the 10 commandments are from the Old Testament, part of the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions.

OK, I agree. If the government of the USA were to become a socialist dictatorship like Nazi Germany then the population would rise up in revolt. Hopefully using those weapons that our 2nd amendment protects from government confiscation (sorry Barry). So, by your argument, there is no fascist censorship.

Or are you arguing that it is so hidden that we cannot even see that we are being censored? Wow. Maybe that tinfoil hat would allow you to see those tendrils of oppression hidden from everyone else.

I hate doing this because i know its amd old reasoning, but americans got so caught up in post 9-11 patriotism that it gave bush the excuse to do anything he wanted as long as it was in response to the attacks. this seems eerily similair to how hitler took power in germany, he used a national tragedy to his advantage and swept in and before enough people noticed it was already too late.

how does the criminal investigation of bush and cheny scare you, thats like saying bringing manson or ted bundy to justice was a bad thing.

Posted by jaykob at September 21, 2008 08:33 PM>/blockquote>

Because using the levers of power to criminalize political differences is the first step to ending the peaceful transition of power that has uniquely characterized the American Experiment for over two hundred years.

But making the comparison of Bush & Cheney to Manson and Bundy you show that you really are too mentally ill to even vote (or own a firearm). Do you propose to persecute the entire Congress? How about those with the same information as Bush, such as Rockefeller of W. VA? Is he like Manson or Bundy too?

How about that portion of the population that supports the Iraq war (like me)? Am I to be persecuted as well?

See what I mean about criminalizing political differences? Or is that too far above your head?

I am a retired U.S. Army Helicopter Pilot who served three years in Vietnam, was awarded The Distinguished Flying Cross, two
Bronze Stars ( with "V"), 32 Combat Air Medals and the Army Commendation Medal. For Fifty, years of my life I WAS a Right-Wing, God Bless MY GOVERNMENT, Kick Ass AMERICAN!!
But Now.... my Government says that if I DISAGREE with THEIR POLICIES, which is my RIGHT under the U.S. Constitution, if I protest my disagreements, which is ALSO my right under the Constitution, I AM CONSIDERED A TERRORIST!!!!! Under the Patriot Act and the Protect America Act and WHO knows what other Acts, WE ALL have lost our FREEDOM OF SPEECH; RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS OF LAW; and Right to Privacy, due to unwarranted search and seizures, AND WIRE TAPPING (probably including this response) and on and on and on.
I DO NOT AGREE WITH MY ELECTED GOVERNMENT AND DEMAND MAJOR RADICAL CHANGES!!!!!!!
The Economy is in the shitter. Inflation is and will be OUT OF CONTROL! THE U.S.DOLLAR is crashing around the world. We are in TWO WARS OVER THE CONTROL OF OIL and most likely a third with IRAN; MASSIVE MONEY BAILOUTS NOT VOTED ON BY CONGRESS WHICH the U.S.TAX PAYER will have to make GOOD over the years to come. I WANT IT STOPPED!!!!
SO NOW I'm called a TRAITOR, a Left Wing Extremist, a WING NUT, A TERRORIST.
YES I HAVE PREPARED, FOOD, WEAPONS, AMMO,and SILVER! And don't kid yourselves - MANY...MANY...MANY Conservative and Right Wing U.S. Citizens who have crossed over to the Far...Far.... LEFT are doing the same. We are talking MILLIONS of MILLIONS of Democratic Free Thinking Patriotic AMERICANS who want OUR CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS BACK.
And,under the provisions of the U.S. Constitution, armed revolt is justified when your elected officials and your Government do not represent the wants of the people. "Tear that Government down".

i never said they should be brought up on charges for political differnces, but for the slaughter of hundreds of innocent people. what does my comparison have to do with me not owning a fire arm?

I'm not buying it. I still don't think a bloody violent revolution is a good idea.

Well Jaykob, you being wrong about more than one thing isn't an assumption. You shouldn't have said that, so you can add that to the list.

For starters. You accused me of being a Conservative. I'm not a Conservative. I know that I'm not and you know it too. You're dead wrong. You shouldn't have even implied it.

Second. Liberals have openly gloated for Osama. You denied it. But the rock solid fact is that I've met them. You know the "chickens roost" mantra? I've personally met these people, and there seem to be a lot of them. You are wrong.

And then there's the Fred Phelps thing. I've met a full blown Liberal that was absolutely giddy about the behavior of the Westboro Baptist Church. I've also read comments where Liberals consider that a real feather in their hat against the Military. You denied it, when you know full well you're wrong.

There are more people in the world than just Conservatives and Liberals. Maybe someday you'll learn that.

This argument was pretty much between CY and the Huffpo poster who wants a total revolution. I think this thread is sweet. Consider this thread bookmarked, cause it's so awesome.

UNCLE SAM

i am glad to see that there are some free thinkers out there like you, i am very happy that finally someone remembers the right to revolt when the government becomes to corrupt.

the so called liberals who gloated for osama and think the world of phelps are not anything like real liberals im sorry you are mistaken on that.

i have never said i am for a bloody revolution, just a overthrow of the current powers at be.

CY!!

How cool! You have your own astroturfer in Uncle Sam! Maybe you have come to the attention of Axelrod?

But maybe you aren't able to read the note, since your power has probably been turned off (economy in the shitter and all). But there is still plenty of money for astroturfing and vote-buying, it seems....

America is about to be legally stolen from the people, and given to a very small group of powerful men.

The Patriot Act of Finance, otherwise known as Paulson's $700 billion bailout bill, if passed in its present form will be the nail in the coffin for an America by, for and of the people.

Just like the Patriot Act appeared to be written before 9/11, so does this Patriot Act of Finance appear to be written before the housing crash. And yes, both were rushed through a panicked Congress and complacent media in the middle of the night.

A nation founded by the people, for the people will be given to a very select group of bankers. Legally. Without a shot fired. Because Americans were too distracted and too dumb to know what was going on.

Brilliant.

Here's how it will be done:

1) The key line in the proposed bill is this one:

"The Secretary's authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to 700,000,000,000 dollars outstanding at any one time"

What this does is give Hank Paulson, acting as an emperor with unchecked control over the nation's treasury, a $700 billion line of credit in which he can buy up toxic debt for whatever price he'd like to pay, $700 billion at a time.

In other words - he could buy trillions. Trillions and trillions and trillions. Buying and selling, buying and selling.

He can sell the junk he buys from his banker friends for whatever price he wants, saddling the taxpayers with the loss. He keeps this process going, using his $700 billion credit card. Buy for 60 cents on the dollar, sell for 30 cents on the dollar. Buy for 80 cents on the dollar, sell for 5 cents on the dollar. He's in charge.

$700 billion folks IS JUST THE LINE OF CREDIT. He can purchase trillions and trillions of bad debt with this credit card, as long as only $700 billion is OUTSTANDING at any one time.

2) Hank Paulson, CEO of Goldman Sachs on leave, has complete and total control over the nation's treasure. He would be unchecked by Congress, unchecked by the President. He will be king. Here's the text:

"The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation"

Using this power, Hank Paulson of Goldman Sachs could pay Goldman Sachs anything he wanted for their mortgage assets. Let's say the market value was 20 cents on the dollar. Hank Paulson could pay them 100 cents on the dollar. Its his decision and his alone. No oversight. No limitations. Hank Paulson could simply give the nation's treasure to Goldman Sachs.

Get it now?

3) Deputizing the banks and investment banks as "agents of the government". Seriously. Here's the text:

"Designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them"

4) Have no outside control over the firesale of assets and loss to the taxpayer. Again, Hank Paulson and Hank Paulson alone shall be in control. No auditors. No oversight. No multiple bids. No nothing. Hank Paulson and Hank Paulson alone. Here you go:

"Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets. The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act."

5) Hank Paulson has final say. Hank Paulson knows what's best. Hank Paulson cannot be reversed. Hank Paulson cannot be sued. Hank Paulson is king.

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency"

So, what can you do? Normally here I'd say contact your corrupt Congressman or Senator. Contact the media. But folks, Congress has been bought. The media have been bought.

The American people have lost.

Deal with it.

So unless there's rage in the street, which there won't be - the new Fall TV season is starting - it's over. They win. In eight short years, they took everything they wanted. And nobody could stop them.

The only hope, for the hopeful? That we can run out the clock, and this bill doesn't pass until Bush and Paulson are gone. But if that's the case, and the bill does pass after January 2009, then the question is - who do you trust more - the outsider or the insider. And with this much on the line, will the outsider be allowed to win?

If this bill does pass ASAP, well, then watch Paulson get busy with his new credit card as fast as he can. He only has four more months. He'll be buying up crap as fast as he can in a desperate and reckless orgy of greed.

http://housingpanic.blogspot.com/2008/09/end-of-america-as-you-knew-it-is-at.html

i never said they should be brought up on charges for political differnces, but for the slaughter of hundreds of innocent people. what does my comparison have to do with me not owning a fire arm?

Posted by jaykob at September 21, 2008 08:51 PM

Because the military actions in Iraq were approved by Congress and, if you believe in such nonsense, legalized by the UN. That is why. Comparing the legal, public, and slow decision to go to war with Iraq to the murder sprees of Manson and Bundy is a comparison only someone mentally imbalanced could possibly make.

I believe that the mentally ill are forbidden to own firearms. But maybe you can use some of Ohio Liberals' imaginary firearms....

The point isn't if Democrats or Republicans got us into this mess. There is plenty of blame to go around. And no one seriously believes that an armed revolution by left- or rightwingers is possible in the US in this day and age (a coup, maybe.) But as the vast majority of us are not being handed $11 million golden umbrellas, surely we can all see there is something wrong here? If I asked you for money to save my business, would you want me to pay it back later when I was making money? Why shouldn't tax-payers get a cut of these fatcats future profits? I know, it sounds socialist, we should just keep bending over for our lords and masters and take it with a smile.

Regarding...Posted by: Uncle Sam at September 21, 2008 08:50 PM above:

Without prejudice, from where I live up in Canada I would say that the above post pretty much describes how the rest of the world sees the current state of affairs in America and many really don't take sides right or left or assign blame other than to think that something awful is going on in the USA that almost resembles Germany before Hitler came to power. So whatever it is please do us a favor and stay home and bash each other and let us live in peace as we perceive no enemies on our doorstep, not here nor in Europe.

OHIO LIBERAL: (your comments in italics)

It's really quite hysterical to read the thoughts of the right-wing when confronted with the idea of revolution. For some reason, they think that just because part of the left is anti-gun, we all are.
I'm a Liberal. I have more guns than you could possibly believe....blah blah...But for you people threatening the wholesale slaughter of the left with one more 'revolution' comment, remember that not ALL of the left-wing party are against guns. I can personally guarantee that if there is a revolution, you're going to be sorely surprised by what We The People can do (when I say We The People, I mean the revolutionaries; classically, in our own history, We The People meant 'the people not willing to take this crap from the government anymore. Whose side are YOU on?)

So what are you going to do with your guns then liberal? Use physical force to overthrow a democratically elected government? That democratically elected government will, quite rightly, unleash its military forces against you. Perhaps the streets will run red with rivers of liberal revolutionary blood. Won't that be nice?

AND, just to clarify: If one more person makes the stereotypical "weed smoking liberal" joke again, I'll be forced to bring about the fact that most meth addicts are from the poverty-stricken areas of the country, the areas that are so violently racist and bigoted that they will under no circumstance support Obama, simply because of his skin color.

The difference is, the meth heads generally aren't online screeching dumb crap like you people are en masse on the Huffington Post and the Daily Kos. For the record, I have nothing against anyone smoking pot - I just laugh at some of the dumb sh*t that it makes people come out with.

I'm happy to say that I'm aligned with the occasional joint smoking hippy and not the meth-infused 'gentry' of the conservative party.

And that makes you proud? Hippies are prone to extol the "virtues" of socialism and other forms of collectivism too...that makes them worse than meth heads in my book, given the historical record of the sheer scale of the wholesale barbarity that such ideologies have wrought upon nations. Hippies are just dumb sons of bitches who talk about going back to "simpler times" but who still want their video games, modern medicine, heated homes, multi-million dollar movies with psychedelic special effects, etc.

If the world view of the hippies had prevailed back in the 60's, they wouldn't have even been able to have Woodstock. Who would have made the helicopters to fly the rock stars to their gigs? Where would they be without the massive PA systems and electricity to power them? Or the doctors who flew in from New York to save their lives?

And for you right-wingers screaming bloody murder at the thought of socialism, I point you to the former ELECTED PRESIDENT of Chile Salvador Allende, who was overthrown by the CIA in the 70's because of his socialist views, regardless of the fact that he was democratically elected (because "The United States will not have this communist experiment in 'our back yard'".) And who was installed as 'president' afterwards? Pinochet. That's right, our Central Intelligence Agency helped to overthrow a democratically-elected president and install one of the most horrifically sadistic dictators in recent memory, who tortured and killed tens of thousands of people because they disagreed with him.

OK hippie lover - the gloves are off. That son of a bitch Allende was a Marxist. Do you realize how many people have been slaughtered by their own Marxist governments? 100+million in the 20th century. Every single Marxist experiment in history has resulted in the brutal wholesale slaughter of millions of civilians, the imprisonment of tens of millions more for simply disagreeing with the party, and the oppression of still tens of millions more who are forced to live in the abject poverty that Marxism results in.

Allende was a racist, a homophobe and an anti-semite (I know you lefties tend to abhor those first two). Go read about his doctoral thesis. The fact is that Pinochet, while no angel, saved Chile from the brutal barbarity of Marxism. Most of those he killed were Marxists too.

Or I point you to the current MSM's portait of Hugo Chavez, the ELECTED PRESIDENT of Venezuela, who is demonized by the United States media because he disagrees with our policies. Yet what you have to understand is that there are other countries out there who are trying to make life worth living on their own soil. In fact, ALL of Latin America has been oppressed and exploited by the United States, England, France, Germany, and even the Danes!

And I will point you to a recently released report by an international human rights group which outlines the terrible abrogation of basic rights by Hugo Chavez. Life is worth living in Venezuela? How many people are busting down their door to get in there compared to, say, America? I would have thought that when he took steps to make himself leader for life and started closing down private TV stations and replacing them with Chavez-approved, state run institutions, at least some of you moron lefties would have clicked. Not so, it seems. MOONBATS!

And so, when you degrade Socialism as a poor governmental choice because YOU don't agree with it, realize that there are people who would sooner kill you to get through you on their way home than be a part of Capitalist United States. You can sit in your house on your computer (as I am doing RIGHT NOW) and you can make outlandish claims about your opposing political party, or you can go and get a passport and see the world and see how millions upon BILLIONS of people live in our shadow.

It's not just a matter of simple subjective disagreement. Capitalism has, in just 250 years, been responsible for doubling the life expectancies of people in the countries which have been blessed by it. It has also slashed infant mortality rates many times over and been responsible for 99% of the worlds greatest technological advances. Because of capitalism, the poor in capitalist countries live better than kings or queens did 500 years ago, in terms of the medicine and technology and domestic quality of life they enjoy. Socialism has never done anything for anyone. It has only created poverty and oppression. That isn't conjecture, it's the empirical truth. America provides the greatest standard of living in the world to millions of people and is why the flow of immigration tends to go from "the rest of the world" to "America" rather than the other way around. Just once, I would like to see some of you moron left wing infants swallow some of this reality. Just once.

But... That would mean leaving your comfort zone.

There, you said it yourself...comfort zone. What do you think provides that comfort zone? I'll give you a clue - it's not Marxism.

That would mean admitting to yourself that you're not always right and the things you've been taught aren't always 100% accurate.
You accuse liberals of being on soapboxes, but youre doing the same thing, quoting their idiocies and making your own.

The things I've taught you tonight are 100% accurate. I'm on my soapbox now because it's about damn time you ignorant heathens faced up to reality and stopped living in an adult fairy tale world.

Heck, I'm doing it too. But you know what? I've lived in other countries. I've slept on dirt floors and eaten what would be turned down by 99% of our countrymen, and I've done all this before my 23rd birthday.

So have I. It made me more grateful than ever for my life in America.

I'm young and I'm quite probably ignorant, but at least I can say that in my littlest fragment of dead skin between my finger and fingernail, I have more experience in the world than you do.

I really don't think so. You're just a young kid mouthing off at the world. You'll grow up soon enough.

Try survival without your credit card before you think to criticize someone for their ideas.

35 years old - never had a credit card, never needed one. How about you? Or do you just use mommy and daddy's.

Uncle Sam - I'm conused by some things in your comments. One of them is this:

"But Now.... my Government says that if I DISAGREE with THEIR POLICIES, which is my RIGHT under the U.S. Constitution, if I protest my disagreements, which is ALSO my right under the Constitution, I AM CONSIDERED A TERRORIST!!!!!"

Did I miss an important action alert from the government letting me know about rule changes? I've seen mass protests about the Iraq War, immigration, Global Warming and all sorts of other stuff, but I haven't heard about anybody being labelled a terrorist by the government for disagreeing.

The all capital letters in your comments makes them extra special important, but are you sure the filings in your teeth are dialed into the right frequencies?

JAYKOB:

"Actually you are mistaken sir, he over saw the appeals of the tribunal court during the 5 months he was commander of the prison, occasionally he put some of Batista's men to the firing squad, but these men where the ones that were responsible for the two hundred thousand innocent cubans that were killed at the hands of Batista. that is nothing compared to the torture executed at Gitmo."

More delusional left wing naivety. I will point you towards Rudolph Joseph Rummel's excellent and meticulously researched "Power Kills" website which gives detailed figures which completely disprove everything you are saying. Castro, with the help of Che, was FAR more brutal than Batista.

The torture of a few savage Islamic terrorists at Gitmo is but a drop in the ocean compared with the brutality of Che and Castro. He didn't just kill Batista's men, he killed perfectly innocent civilians who didn't want to give up their small family farms to the revolution, etc. He rounded up hippies and longhairs and forced them into brutal labor camps. Che was also a racist - read the Motorcycle Diaries, in which his views about blacks are there for all to see. I don't know how many lefties I've known who have worshiped that book and claimed never to have noticed his racist views in there - until I pointed them out.

JAYKOB:

"The only reason that i am able to speak freely online is because the government has not been able to find a way to successfully censor it without showing thier tru facist nature. if you think freedom of speech is still around go to any anti war demonstration and see how quickly the police turn violent on the protesters."

If the government wanted to censor the internet they could do it RIGHT NOW. China does it, for instance. Do you think the Chinese have free access to the internet?

I've been to anti-war demonstrations (I live in NYC) and I've seen how quickly the little left wing savages get aggressive and start throwing things around and causing trouble, until the cops - who are incredibly restrained considering the crap they put up with - eventually have to do their jobs and remove the filthy little lawbreakers so they can't do any more harm.

I will repeat. You have more freedom of speech in this country than you do anywhere else in the world. That's why you're allowed to bitch and whine and hoot and bray like you are.

KEVIN SCHMIDT:

"Better look up the definition of fascism. You are certainly confused and wrong."

I know the definition of fascism. I am certainly NOT confused or wrong. I've never met a lefty yet who had even the slightest idea of the philosophical, political or economic definition of fascism. It's a word you use as an all-encompassing insult aimed at anyone you disagree with.

JAYKOB:

"You really have no idea how Batista ran cuba before Castro and Che came along. and just because most countries have less freedom of speech then us does not make our perfect, thats like saying Hitlers final solution was decent just because Mao killed more people for less reasoning. i will admit that we do have more freedom than most countries, but no where near what the constitution says we should have. and since when did political debate become who can degrade his opponent more, if i have offended any one i am truly sorry and hope you accept my apology. As for being intellectually shallow i think the apotomy of being intellectually shallow is resorting to personal attacks to defend your point of view."

I do have an idea of how Cuba was before Che and Castro came along. It was, economically, in better shape than a lot of European countries. Cuban farm laborers for instance, earned more than their counterparts in Italy or France. Sure, Batista was no saint, but that does not justify a "revolution" which made things far, far worse. Revolutions are supposed to make things get better, I thought?

You admit that we have more freedom of speech than "most countries" - I will correct you and say we have more freedom of speech than ALL countries. Europeans are currently losing theirs as the left wing EU tightens its screws and oppresses freedom of speech in many many instances. You claim to appreciate these freedoms but you sure as hell don't show it...plus, you outright refuse to condemn some of the most oppressive regimes in history and admit that socialism is nothing more than state slavery. Is it any wonder that right minded, objective people with decent values get angry with you?

JAYKOB:

As an Athiest i would hate to be tried in a court that is obviously pro christianity.

In what way? Firstly, the placing of the hand on the Bible is just a ritual. Get over it. Secondly, there are plenty of non-Christian and atheist judges in this country at every level. Thirdly, name one way in which a Christian judge is not going to give you a fair trial.

Not me personally but if i was a gay male i could not marry my significant other.

Having the state afford you certain benefits for being married is not a "human right". For the record, I don't agree with the state giving anyone, gay or straight, special rights or benefits for being married. As a non-married person, it's an abrogation of my rights to be discriminated against in this way. Gays can get married - they can hold their own ceremonies and call themselves husband and husband or whatever. But if they wish to partake in a system in which they are afforded more rights than me just because I am not married, I don't have to be happy about that at all.

again not me personally but women are payed less on average for equal work.

That's just not so. This has been debunked many times, here's an example:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/04/the_truth_about_the_pay_gap.html

an unborn child is not living so it is not murder, but are you telling me that if you sister was raped you think she would have to deal with that child the rest of her life.

An unborn child is not living? That's about the most ill informed thing I have ever heard.

The sister who was raped can give that child up for adoption - there are millions of couples out there who can't have kids.

How have i confused the defintion of Facism?

By failing to show that you understand its most basic premises.

If the us government were to show thier true colors so dramatically they know that the majority of the us population would rise up in oppostion.

Do you even know what democracy means? This country is currently split neck and neck between a Republican and a Democrat. Does that sound like the majority of people wish for a socialist revolution like you do?

JAYKOB:

how does the criminal investigation of bush and cheny scare you, thats like saying bringing manson or ted bundy to justice was a bad thing.

It doesn't scare me, it's just a complete waste of time. They didn't do anything wrong. Democrats spent most of the 90's and the early 2000's declaring how dangerous Saddam was and how we needed to get rid of him. They agreed fully with Bush right up until the time the war became unpopular with the public, then they pounced.

There is a video of Al Gore in the 90's berating the first Bush for not doing enough to get rid of Saddam, whom he called a danger to the world. There are plenty more quotes from Democrats in that vein, if you would like me to post them I will.

In fact it is Democrats who should be put on trial - for treason. They've done their level best to undermine a wartime president and their country and their troops. They've done their best to try and make America lose this war, an end they seek purely for political purposes.

JAYKOB:

"I hate doing this because i know its amd old reasoning, but americans got so caught up in post 9-11 patriotism that it gave bush the excuse to do anything he wanted as long as it was in response to the attacks. this seems eerily similair to how hitler took power in germany, he used a national tragedy to his advantage and swept in and before enough people noticed it was already too late."

You're wrong from the first sentence - what you say is not "reasoning" at all. Americans WERE attacked by sub human Islamic terrorists, and Bush did everything he could to make sure that it didn't happen again. Which it didn't - so far.

Hitler lied about the Jews and used them as an excuse to install himself as a fascist dictator. In case you weren't aware, Bush's last term is almost up in this democratic country. The comparisons between America and Nazi Germany are old and dog-eared, and it's about time you childish leftists learned a new trick to amuse us.

I am done with all this i know by my leaving this thread you will all assume that i am defeated and just gave up, no i am done because arguring my point of view to people i know will never change thier mind is pointless, and ive already wasted enough time in doing so, instead i would wish to change the minds of people who are actually intelligent free thinkers not asinine cowards who are too afraid to stand up for what is right but instead hide behind a corrupt government and a meaningless flag.

JAYKOB:

"i never said they should be brought up on charges for political differnces, but for the slaughter of hundreds of innocent people. what does my comparison have to do with me not owning a fire arm?"

There are two parties who are 100% responsible for the deaths of innocents in Iraq:

1) Saddam Hussein, who refused to step down as dictator of Iraq when given an ultimatum which was given to him because he was quite clearly trying to develop nukes and was playing cat and mouse games with UN inspectors. We had to unseat him given the intelligence which existed against him - to not do so would have been entirely irresponsible. He could have avoided a war simply by stepping down and allowing another in his party to take over. That was the deal. He refused it. We had to go in.

2) Islamic terrorists who saw Iraqis enjoying their first taste of democracy and decided to do everything they could to destroy it. To that end, they have killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq since...and not once have I EVER heard a liberal denounce them or apportion any kind of blame whatsoever for the carnage in Iraq. Not once. Liberals can't even bring themselves to acknowledge that it isn't US soldiers killing innocents, but Islamic terrorists.

Posted by: KEVIN SCHMIDT at September 21, 2008 09:07 PM

Blah blah blibbety...

Kevin, you refuse to answer the questions.

1) Do you deny that it was the left wing policy of forcing lenders to give out bad loans which led to the sub prime mortgage crisis?

2) Given this, what do you expect Paulson to do? What do you WANT him to do? NOT bail anyone out? You do realize what the economic consequences of that would be, don't you?

Having established this, it seems funny that you're now spewing childish conspiracies, as if this were all planned. Paulson certainly didn't instigate or plan the sub prime mortgage crisis.

So what do you want him to do about it now? Answer the question.

RANDALL:

"Without prejudice, from where I live up in Canada I would say that the above post pretty much describes how the rest of the world sees the current state of affairs in America and many really don't take sides right or left or assign blame other than to think that something awful is going on in the USA that almost resembles Germany before Hitler came to power. So whatever it is please do us a favor and stay home and bash each other and let us live in peace as we perceive no enemies on our doorstep, not here nor in Europe."

There is nothing about the current state of the US that resembles Germany before Hitler came to power. Stop making these melodramatic claims for effect. It's childish. I might take a look at the ways freedom of speech is being abrogated in Canada and say the same thing.

Do you want examples?

JAYKOB:

"I am done with all this i know by my leaving this thread you will all assume that i am defeated and just gave up, no i am done because arguring my point of view to people i know will never change thier mind is pointless, and ive already wasted enough time in doing so, instead i would wish to change the minds of people who are actually intelligent free thinkers not asinine cowards who are too afraid to stand up for what is right but instead hide behind a corrupt government and a meaningless flag."

That's not what happened though JayKob, is it? Your arguments just weren't good enough to demolish the wall of reasoning you were confronted with. THAT'S what happened.

There is no point being a "free thinker" if your views are unfounded, without basis and irrational. There is no virtue in associating yourself with "freedom" if you openly express support for the left wing regimes in this world who don't allow their citizens the most basic freedoms that we enjoy.

The American flag may be meaningless to you, but that's because you're ignorant and you don't know what it means. I'll give you a clue - it represents the torch of the Enlightenment, which started in England and (ironically) France, and which spread to the New World.

'The latest demands by the fascist regime are:

1. We must bail out foreign banks as well as American banks.

2. We can not interfere with the salaries and bonuses of the people who plundered their companies.

3. Working Americans can not be involved in the bailout, only corporations.

4. We can not include any regulatory oversight in the legislation. We must trust Bush to do the right thing.

Does any of this remind you of the Patriot Act? The scumbags are using a disaster (that they created) to get everything that they ever wanted in their quest to destroy the Constitution and turn government over to corporations. You should be very afraid of what is about to happen.

You are going to buy all the bad debts from these banking predators and leave them with the ‘cream of the crop’ loans. They will reap fantastic profits and you will be fucked.

Pelosi will talk big, but by the end of the week she will be in front of Bush on her knees. It is small wonder that the market rebounded in the last two days. Wall Street was just told that there will never be any ramifications for bad decisions.

Bend over taxpayers; You know where you are going to take this bailout.'

http://lonesomemongoose.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/bend-over-taxpayers-you-know-where-you-are-going-to-take-this-bailout/

Templar Knight:
Yeah... I made it up. Completely. I fabricated it, pulled it out of thin air. Whoops. You caught me. It doesn't matter that it happened, because I have no proof. I have no proof at all, and you should have absolutely no reason to believe me.
I don't care if you do or don't. You've managed a great Fox News in taking one part of a story and blowing it out of proportion to make it the most IMPORTANT part. Congratulations. Try not to break your sternum when you thump your chest.

James:
You read one history. I'll suffice with going to those countries and talking with the people who lived through it. It's told quite differently.
And no, I don't have a credit card; I watched my parents marriage get torn apart because of debt and mortgages, and I decided I wouldn't need one that bad.
Yeah, I'm an angry kid. I'm angry because I've seen a lot of messed up stuff in the short period I've been alive.
And you're obviously taking the time to respond to me, so my mouthing off to the world has managed to get under someones skin. Your response has proven your own point: Only idiots write on these message boards, myself included.

Lefties are non-intelligent entities who give no thought to what the dribble. I'm astonished by the stupidity of the left. If they looked at all the facts, all the details, there wouldn't be all this. Plain, COMMON sense would show their errors. But they won't wake up. Common sense is entirely too uncommon.

KEVIN SCHMIDT:

I will ask you one more time. Who do you think created this disaster? When you say "they", do you include the left wing group ACORN, which blackmailed banks into providing bad loans to high risk low income families by using the CRA to threaten the veto of branch expansions and mergers?

Perhaps ACORN were in on it with Paulson, to create this vast conspiracy to install fascism.

I will also ask - given that the left wing policies of political correctness created this situation, how do you propose we get out of it?

I await your answers. You seem very keen to search the bloggosphere for opinions as childish and naive as yours, but very reluctant to actually engage with someone using your skills of reasoning.

I see you still have no idea what the word "fascist" means, too. How cute.

Jaykob,
You are a fool. Source for 200,00 killed by Bautista? Best sources I've seen are 20,000 during his entire career from 1933 through 1958. Source for Che's executions and murders: "Little Black Book of Communism". Read it sometime..... They excuted ~2100 Cubans at La Cabana Prison during Che's 5 months there. Quite a few had fought with Castro but were not communist so Che killed them.

OHIO LIBERAL:

You read one history. I'll suffice with going to those countries and talking with the people who lived through it. It's told quite differently.

Perhaps you'd like to talk to some of the millions of people who have escaped Cuba on rafts in shark infested waters since Che and Castro destroyed their country? Perhaps you'd like to talk to Cubans once they're in the safety of a free country, where they don't have to worry about being imprisoned or oppressed for saying the wrong thing.

Perhaps the millions upon millions of innocent people who have been slaughtered by their Marxist leaders "have a different story to tell" too. Oh that's right I forgot - they're dead.

And no, I don't have a credit card; I watched my parents marriage get torn apart because of debt and mortgages, and I decided I wouldn't need one that bad.

Good for you! I pay cash for almost everything - everything else with a debit card.

Yeah, I'm an angry kid. I'm angry because I've seen a lot of messed up stuff in the short period I've been alive.

Aww, EVERYONE'S an angry kid. You'll grow out of it. Everyone's seen messed up stuff. Here's a little reality for you. Poverty and misery and cruelty has been the natural state of the world for 99% of its history. Capitalism didn't create poverty, it inherited it from the Earth. And since it did, nothing has done more to alleviate it. Growing up involves learning to appreciate just how lucky you are to live in one of the freest countries in the world, and how lucky you are to live in a capitalist country.

And you're obviously taking the time to respond to me, so my mouthing off to the world has managed to get under someones skin.

I don't mind someone "mouthing off" at all. When they're getting it all wrong though, I tend to object. Calmly and rationally. You don't "get under my skin".

Your response has proven your own point: Only idiots write on these message boards, myself included.

Speak for yourself!

President Bush: "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror."

As I believe the US Government is terrorizing USA citizens with the Patriot Act and the Protect American Act (& various other 'new' Acts), as these Acts take away basic freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, I am NOT "with" the Government Policies.

And, since I am "against" the Government Policies, I can therefore be considered a terrorist by the Government [agencies].

I might also add that not one of the US Gov. deemed ‘terrorists’ has taken my Constitutional rights away – my own Government has done that!

I am in direct disagreement with current US Government Policy on USA CITIZEN'S RIGHTS – this hardly compares with Global Warming, Immigration issues, or even war protesters (although I might remind you to remember Kent State, if you’re old enough).

Are you even aware that [forced to delete the rest of this in order to post] Policies that are taking away US citizen’s rights. Do you recall that one of my fellow pilots helping the US fight the war in Iraq is found on this TWL? These are but a few. You might even find yourself listed!! Do your research!

IF you do some research, you will also see that protesters against Government policies are NOT being allowed to protest in a peaceful manner. There are many, many incidents where police are ‘undercover’ and within the protester groups creating disturbances with their fellow officers so it will APPEAR that the protesters in general are an unruly group. You can do a Google search on this and see video of this happening. Then, there are the raids PRIOR to protests. I’ll give you one a link for one incident of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ougH8G6UnkI – YOU can do a search and find more.

Ask the ACLU what rights have been lost by the Patriot Act, etc. and they will be glad to enlighten you.

Am I on the right frequency? Well, I loved to be proved that what I am saying is incorrect but to date, I regretfully find I am not. So, daleyrocks, I put the same question to you – are YOU on the right frequency??

I’d like to add that I have no malice against anyone with an opinion – but many opinions I see being voiced just do not have the right information and therefore their opinions are misaligned. I only seek to enlighten the US citizens to what is happening day by day to their Constitutional Rights.

And YES, when it comes to the Constitution and The Bill of Rights – I WILL fight for them. Even if it means picking up arms to do so…

(Note: I’m not YELLING in this response )

NOTE: In my first response to you, I was censored and not allowed to post anything concerning HLS terrorist watch list policies! I had to remove that from this response or it would not post!! Talk about loss of freedom!!

I received the following warning:
Your comment could not be submitted due to questionable content: Are you even aware that..[I am not allowed to complete this paragraph if I wish to post!]

Here is some sobering reading for the lefties here tonight who are prone to celebrating the likes of the scumbags Che and Castro, especially misinformed prats like "jaykob"

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/POSTWWII.TAB.GIF

RJ Rummel is probably one of the most learned scholars of state oppression in existence. His research is meticulous and he is completely impartial in his work.

Pro-Castro saps will see from this table that Batista's total killings for the decade or so he was in power was 1.16 thousand. Castro's, in the next decade, was 68.48 thousand - almost SIXTY times as violent as Batista.

Just take a stroll through Rummel's site, and see for yourself that history's most violent regimes have been socialist and Marxist - remember, the Nazis were socialists too, but even if they weren't the killings of Hitler were overtaken many times over than the killings of Marxists.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/

Well, once Anonymous is done harvesting all the wingnutter's personal information from sites like O'Reilly's, Hannity's and Limbaugh's it will kinda be like fish in a barrel, so to speak.

UNCLE SAM

How did you find out if you are on the watch list?

JAYKOB:

Maybe the government has not found a way to censor what you say online but Confederate Yankee sure has! I was censored - had to remove a large portion of my response to daleyrocks as it dealt with the TW List and who was on it!

DALEYROCKS - Sorry, forgot to put your name at the top of my last post which was response to your questions.

"I've allowed this threat to run relatively unfettered, with exception of some posts that were deleted for obvious trolling or gratuitous profanity. but I'm growing quite tired of those on both sides chiming in with threats against one another.

If you want to seehow big each other's raisins are, by all means do so, just do it somewhere else."

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

If this thread isn't an argument for the merits of centrism, I don't know what is. You guys can continue to call each other "fascists," "libtards," "ninnies," and "simpletons" until the cows come home. Just don't get in the way of the rest of us while we work together and solve our country's problems.

JAYKOB:

Sorry - can not tell you. I am censored! Call Homeland Security.

UNCLE SAM:

President Bush: "You're either with us or against us in the fight against terror."

As I believe the US Government is terrorizing USA citizens with the Patriot Act and the Protect American Act (& various other 'new' Acts), as these Acts take away basic freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, I am NOT "with" the Government Policies.

And, since I am "against" the Government Policies, I can therefore be considered a terrorist by the Government [agencies].

Grow up. You know as well as I do who Bush was addressing when he made that comment. He was addressing an international community he quite rightly believed should support a war on terror - not US citizens who may disagree with his methods.

But he was right - if you are against fighting terrorists, you are with them. It's as simple as that. Nobody is saying you can't disagree with methods, strategies etc - but if you disagree with the fundamental need to address the problem, then you're on their side. It really is that simple.

I might also add that not one of the US Gov. deemed ‘terrorists’ has taken my Constitutional rights away – my own Government has done that!

If a terrorist was to launch an attack on you and kill you, would that be considered taking your Constitutional rights away? Do you have a right to live? Almost 3,000 people had their Constitutional rights taken away from them in New York City on 9/11, for instance. Terrorists take away your right to go about your life in peace without the threat of being blown up on a bus or a subway, etc.

So which Constitutional rights has the government taken away from you?

I am in direct disagreement with current US Government Policy on USA CITIZEN'S RIGHTS – this hardly compares with Global Warming, Immigration issues, or even war protesters (although I might remind you to remember Kent State, if you’re old enough).

What rights do you suppose you have as a human being, and which of those rights do you feel are being abrogated? Let's go into this, philosophically.

Are you even aware that [forced to delete the rest of this in order to post] Policies that are taking away US citizen’s rights. Do you recall that one of my fellow pilots helping the US fight the war in Iraq is found on this TWL? These are but a few. You might even find yourself listed!! Do your research!

Forced to delete what? Spare me your theatrics. What can't you post here? Be specific! Don't lie.

IF you do some research, you will also see that protesters against Government policies are NOT being allowed to protest in a peaceful manner. There are many, many incidents where police are ‘undercover’ and within the protester groups creating disturbances with their fellow officers so it will APPEAR that the protesters in general are an unruly group.

No, there are many instances in which left wing anti-war protesters claim to have been infiltrated by undercover cops whom they can then blame any violence on. Get real kid - leftist protesters are violent and unruly all over the world. I've SEEN more protests in New York than you've had hot dinners. The cops are there for a reason - to maintain law and order, as is their job. They have to contain protests and stop them from getting out of hand. Which unfortunately, they frequently do. Leftists are often hysterical by nature, as can be seen by their attacks on Republicans in colleges etc. See how they storm stages to prevent the opposing view being expressed at college events. See the footage of Code Pink protesters actively encouraging violence against Republican students at Berkeley. I was 21 once, I knew a lot of these types. They are not, on the whole, "peaceful". They're angry and aggressive, and the cops have to do something about them. In your YouTube links, where is the proof? I'm sick of hearing the endless paranoid conjecture of the left.

Ask the ACLU what rights have been lost by the Patriot Act, etc. and they will be glad to enlighten you.

Ask the ACLU if they care about my right to live my life without the threat of Islamic savages blowing me up. Ask them if they even care about the right of a 4 year old child to play in the street without being under threat of the gunfire which frequently hits them when thug animals have arguments over $10 bags of weed. The ACLU cares more about the rights of criminals to plot and commit crimes than it does about the rights of innocent, decent citizens to go about their law abiding, peaceful lives. They are a disgrace and when you look into their roots it's hardly surprising - they were started by communists.

And YES, when it comes to the Constitution and The Bill of Rights – I WILL fight for them. Even if it means picking up arms to do so…

Don't be silly, son. You're just daydreaming. Nobody's attacking your rights. You don't even really know what rights are. I'll get into this with you philosophically if you like - just say the word.

Uncle sam

Is there a way online though? and CY is just not letting you say it, you could email me if he wont let you say anything.

By the way, those who are claiming that they can't post certain content - of course you can. Do you really think the government is monitoring this site and censoring it in real time? There are many things which trip the "questionable content" sensors on blog comments - posting people's personal details is often one of them. If that's what you're doing, then don't. If not, then all you have to do is find a way to cloak what you're posting until it gets past the filters. It's pretty easy to do - have you never gotten past a filter that refuses links, etc?

Uncle Sam - Dude I get it. You are a terrorist in your own mind, not the government's mind. I thought I was missing something. Thanks for clearing that up.

James - Enjoyed the rants. I didn't have time to spend educating the morons today.

Thanks!

James:
"Get real kid..." "Don't be silly, son. You're just daydreaming."

Did you not read the following in my initial response? I am a retired U.S. Army Helicopter Pilot who served three years in Vietnam, was awarded The Distinguished Flying Cross, two
Bronze Stars ( with "V"), 32 Combat Air Medals and the Army Commendation Medal. For Fifty, years of my life I WAS a Right-Wing, God Bless MY GOVERNMENT, Kick Ass AMERICAN!!

And you call me "kid" and "son"?

James - when, and if, you put your life on the line for your country for more than 3 years; received more awards for combat heroism and bravery in full support of the US government's policies at the time. And when you've served your Government for over 20 years in active military service, THEN you can call me "kid" or even "son". But until that time, the only name you have the right to call me is "Sir"!

I don't have time to walk you through the internet. Everything I have stated is on the internet. Start with reading The Patriot Act and The Protect America Act.

..."Almost 3,000 people had their Constitutional rights taken away from them in New York City on 9/11, for instance. Terrorists take away your right to go about your life in peace without the threat of being blown up on a bus or a subway, etc."..

James, as far as 911....I'll save that for another post at another time. Too lengthy to get into now.

"Forced to delete what? Spare me your theatrics. What can't you post here? Be specific! Don't lie."

Was I censored by CF? Yes indeed. I did a copy and paste of it on a word.doc! Obviously, I can not discuss it here as it was censored the first time around so don't see if making it the second time around. This is no theatrics - surprised me when the censor showed up - still don't know exactly why (no cussing, name calling, etc. was in it). If you would like to see it, I'll send you the worddoc. to your email.

James:

"By the way, those who are claiming that they can't post certain content - of course you can. Do you really think the government is monitoring this site and censoring it in real time?"

James, if you are insinuating that I think the Government is monitoring - and censoring - me in real time....well, that ludicrous. I not only don't believe that - I made no such claim. I said that CY censored me.

I had no person's personal information; foul language, etc. I do not know WHY it was censored but the subject matter was HL TW List.

Computers new to me...I am not savvy enough to know how to cloak. I tried putting XXXX in various parts of the censored paragraph but still got censored. I had to 'delete' a large portion of the paragraph for it to Post. I did save a copy of what I wrote - and the response...the censor message.

Liberals really believe that Conservatives are bloodthirsty maniacs. After all, they tell themselves, look at the support among conservatives for the Iraq War, look at the number of conservatives that have served in the Armed Forces. Obvious Neanderthals.

So, if the Bush's steal another election, even though no Bush is running, it is time to revolt and take the country where it needs to go.

But they overlook some facts. Any revolt would be very short. Because Conservatives are bloodthirsty maniacs.

Gun control advocates threatening armed revolution and PRAYING??

Are you sure this didn't come from the Onion instead of Huffpo?

I would like to see some opinions, from those opposed to Larisa Alexandrovna's essay, on the desirability of the trillion-dollar bailout; something beyond 'liberals created the problem to begin with'.

Your own words condemn you. "Preventable?" Yes. There has, indeed, been corruption, but you are so uneducated, so agendized by the Left, and so DUMB that you cannot see what is right in front of your screeching face: it is your heroes who've been looting Fannie, and Freddie, and many other corrupt acts. Now, go paint your signs, your revolution awaits!!

HeeHee

People in opposition of Bush uneducated? Thats ludicrous it's the small minded conservatives that are so easily scared by 3rd world rag heads and any American citizens that looks forward instead of clinging to the past.Bush's gutting of any oversight of wall street resulted in this mess.Just look at his 2004 SEC rule change where the five large wall street banks thats are failing now were allowed to borrow 40 times their operating capital. But that wouldn't have anything to do with their current problems would it.

Just curious about republican views here... What do you guys think about Woodrow Wilson? He ended up squashing free speech and starting modern propaganda.

p.s. I must say I've had a good laugh at the bluff calling for armed revolution. I think both parties at this point are complete BS. Both have essentially the exact same corporate backers. I hate Clinton for NAFTA. I'm not saying I have solutions but I'm looking for them.

p.p.s. I'll be voting for Obama. Best reason: McCain's choice of Palin disqualified him.

I read some of the posts here, and the main message I seem to hear is "Getting raped and loving it! What's wrong with all the wingnuts who don't enjoy getting screwed up the --- like we do?"

Unfortunately this moronic consent to the criminals in charge that means everyone in the US gets screwed. I became an expatriate years ago, but I always thought I would want to return when I had a family. But now that I have two lovely three-year olds, I would never dream of bringing them back there. Thanks to many posters on this list for your contribution toward making the country I once loved shameful and unlivable.
my children will get raped to--if I ever make the mistake of bringing them back to the US, that is.

Please, please - I pray - let the lefty bedwetters take up arms!! Just for the comedy!

Excuse me but the people these leftists elected are going right along with this socialistic bailout. Imagine a socialist, totalitarian, objecting to economic socialism!? LOL

These freaks have very big mouths. They are even willing to resort to violence as long as there is a massive police force around them, protecting them from being lynched on the spot by decent Americans.

Bring that revolution on....Puullleeeese! What an opportunity to rid ourselves of several thousand American hating leftists.

Yep, this bllsht government needs to be brought to it's knees before the people of this nation. I don't give a fck what morons calling themselves "Confederate Yankees"(--WTF??),think. No matter what the idiots who agree with Confederate Yankee think. You are all a bunch of fckng Nazi's anyway. OOOOOOOOHH let's report her to the secret police. Fck freedom of speech, huh? Well fck you too, sshles. Larisa wasn't even born here and she knows more what it is to be an American than you fckng dchbgs. I hope we meet on the field of battle in a new revolution against ignorance and willfull stupidity. To the death mthr-fckrs.

[note: this post disemvoweled by siteowner, but otherwise intact]

Your first commenter had the right idea. Please, leftist dorkwads ... commit treason, come out against America physically as you have done in words for decades, and attack the government openly. Give my AR-15 a chance to speak up on behalf of the this great nation!

This would last, what ... an hour and a half?

Gandhi. You nitwits can only thinks of guns and war.
Gandhi. That's how a revolution works. The end of the Soviet Union. They didn't come out there with guns, they just came out there and said no. Can't you see we are getting screwed by our own rulers. 700 billion for the banks. Where's my million? You guys are blinded by the right, Cut loose like a deuce another runner in the night. Good luck with it.

Dang, James. That was some Epic Pwnage.

mitchell:
"I would like to see some opinions, from those opposed to Larisa Alexandrovna's essay, on the desirability of the trillion-dollar bailout"

WHY I WANT A TRILLION DOLLAR BAILOUT (Yes, Even if it requires the Treasury Secretary be given blanket authority):
(from least to most)

5. I can't get worked up about a Trillion dollars when I know that there is a 50Trillion dollar tsunami in the form of a socialist ponzi scheme that will swamp us in 10-30 years.

4. A "free market" solution is not appropriate. This is not a failure of the freemarket. This is a catastrophic failure which sprung from a *perversion* of the free market (A state owned entity acting as a private sector participant albeit with an infinite budget to negate any mistake, regardless of scale.) If it was just another market player then I'd say who cares. But these guys own half of the mortgages in the country. Their portfolio is valued at 5 Trillion dollars.

3. Because most American households, including myself, have the majority of their life savings tied up in retirement plans and in their house.

i. You can't liquidate your house, and it will be really hard to find anyone willing to pay August 2008 prices for your house if everyone's financial resources are reduced to zero.

ii. Toilet paper would be more expensive than the studiously diversified securities in my 401k if we had a real financial meltdown. I'm genX, I worked hard and played by the rules, and pushing 40. I don't want to start at zero again because of a chain of events kicked off by government bureaucrats who decided they were worth annual bonuses of $18-25M for playing Enron games with taxpayer backed money. (It's the sort of thing that might drive a less balanced person to start looking for a torch & pitchfork) Worse still, I've just started a business after being laid off, so my 401k is my last line of defense. If I lose that than it really is do or die for me and my family.

2. Because the source of this goes back to a collapse in the housing industry, which in turn has contaminated the entire credit industry due to some highly irresponsible behaviour on the part of ass-hat borrowers AND bigger ass-hat ivy league scum & Fannie/Freddie cronies, so if backstopping housing frees up the credit and we avoid a chain reaction collapse that will make the Great Depression look mild than so be it.

There are a couple of ways the taxpayers would even get it back: These houses *have* value. Somebody can live in them (and maintain their value over time), -maybe even the family who previously "owned" them if the government simply takes the deed (and whatever equity they had) and starts charging them rent it determines they can afford, (I'd say at least 50% of the current market value + they do maintenance or out they go) If the plan works than the the housing market will find it's bottom, stabilize and even start to rebound, and the government (as the deedholder) will see huge returns having bought near the bottom if they simply hold on to the deeds and gradually beging to sell the more lucrative ones as the market rises.

1. Because I have a three year old and haven't stocked up on ammo, or converted my generator to run on fermented grass clippings, or done the Mormon thing and stock up on a year's worth of food and heating oil. I've got a picket fence to paint come next spring. The total financial collapse which would follow a cascading failure of finance and banking institutions and 86 any possibility of finding a job or growing a business is NOT a teaching moment. It is a disaster of global scale whose misery would condemn 100's of millions to starvation, maybe even here. No thanks.

That said, this shouldn't be forgiven: We should demand that a lot of these people do the perp walk in orange jumpsuits, --and yes Cox should resign, not because he's a bad guy, but because regulating forward looking statements and statements of risk are the SEC's responsibility and it happened on his watch. McCain's right: If it's good enough for Eisenhower it's good enough for the guy who helped put us in this situation.

I think there are several others who should also fall on their swords. Bernanke? I don't know how culpable he is yet. Greenspan? Grrrrr. If we can't perp walk Barney Frank than at least we should demand he resign, along with the other politicians (who ARE mostly democrats) that consistently blocked the same set of reforms proposed in 2003, 2005, and 2007. (That would be Dodd, Shumer, Clinton, maybe even Obama, (he did steer a lot of pork their way), but I'm certainly willing to ask the same of Ted Stevens, Bohner, and any other pork meisters in the spirit of bipartisanship.) Certainly anyone whose was a C level officer at Fanny/Freddy in last 10 years, including Raines, Johnson, and the Mistress of Disaster, Jamie Gorelick, should be thrown into prison for the rest of their $18-25M/yr lives. These three should consider themselves lucky that we don't apply the PRofC solution to such corporate malfeasance.

But what about this non-review thing? I trust Secretary Paulson will ask himself how history would remember him if he didn't exercise this unbridled power of the purse on the basis of what is best for the country. Can you imagine if someone could stop this decision or that by suing and/or appealing the Treasury Secretary's decisions? Would foreign held corporations refrain from suing if their competitors were being bailed out? Foreign powers? Radicals within this country that see progress as bad? (How many shares would the ELF have to buy to have standing?) How about some asshat pol who wants to see his constituent's employer gets bailed out first. No, there cannot be oversight or it will never work.

The extremists who are commenting need to exchange e-mails with each other and find a place in the desert to get it on.

The 90% of us who wonder what this all means for our families need to think about what actions we should take to protect ourselves. I am usually a lurker here, but I mostly agree with CY and his posts. I believe he was pointing out the silliness of a poster on the Huffington Blog calling for a revolution. In my opinion, if the Left could have had a revolution, we would have already seen it. Empty threats from Leftists are just that...empty. And for right-leaning people to be suckered into silly arguments with them does not reflect well on us either. The only revolution we would be likely to see would be the one that would happen if welfare checks were eliminated, which would be the result of an attempted revolution. The beat-down of these Leftists by welfare recipients might be worth seeing the attempt. LOL. J/K here, folks.

As for the bailout, I doubt whether many regulars of this site would approve of it. I certainly don't, and I have contacted my Congressman this morning and voiced my opposition. That is what we all should do, regardless of whether we oppose or support it. I realize we faced a financial crisis last week, but this can't possibly be the best solution. Giving carte blanche to bankers with sums of taxpayer's monies in the hundreds of billions is insane, and it should be recinded. What can sensibly be put in its place I don't know, but what has been done needs to be undone. Work within the system to change the system. That has worked for America since 1776, with only one exception, and that one(CW) caust millions of lives. I don't think we need another one of those.

My only request: Hope all the revolutionary types carry ALL their cash, and wear ALL their bling when they assault the bitter gun-clingers. Don't waste your money on Tattoos, kids. Get more gold teeth and big diamond ear rings instead.

"The other option, the one I have long prayed we would never need to even consider, is a total revolution."

It is incredibly ironic for Larisa to suggest such a thing. Considering that her folks come from Soviet Ukraine, she offers a solution the consequences of which her parents (along with thousands, if not millions, of other russians and ukranians) fled by moving to this great country. Might I say her parents failed her in helping her understand the causes of the mess the whole ex Soviet empire is still boggled down in. Larisa in case you read this post, may I suggest some reading for you?

A People's Tragedy: The Russian Revolution: 1891-1924 Orlando Figes

Did you know that most leftist crazies believe that the contrails we see following planes are conservative/republican conspiracies. What the exhausts are supposed to be doing they wont/can't say but thats what the idiots believe. And we allow such people to vote...

templar knight references the Bush administration's allegations, upon occupying the White House, that the outgoing Clinton administration trashed and robbed the place. Anybody remember that? Bush white house repeated the story for days. The Governmental Accountability Office investigated - concluded it was all false. But of course by the time that report was issued the damage had been done and this kind of lie persists among those who prefer propaganda over facts. That wasn't the first lie the Bushies told (remember their smearing McCain in SC?), but it foreshadowed their governing style based on deception - which has been their greatest betrayal of conservative values.

Unpatriotic man

You are flat out lying! It is undeniable that the Clintons trashed and stole many things from the White House. I noticed you didn't reference any links to your lie. Here is the truth. Why do far left wing fanatical nutjobs like Unpatriotic man have to lie? Don't they think they can win in the arena of ideas? Is lying the only way they can win? Does anyone think that Unpatriotic man will apologize for lying?

CY, I know it's against your swearing policy, but please leave up Clan1465's comment. Just this once. Pretty please.

It is so perfectly emblematic of the Left. He spells out their intent with such clarity.

This thread rules!

brando

You think clan1465 would be able to navigate all the pizza boxes in his Mama's basement to make it to the streets for a revolution?

We aren't even near any kind of revolution. We still have it so good here the Old USA. Who wants to mess everything up?
I'm a liberal but I don't want a revolution. To What? I just want a level playing field for a free market economy with liberty and justice for all. This bailout smells, it's a dog with fleas. Why don't they refinance individual loans to something fair and the penalty is starting over? Nothing to the banks except a fair monthly payment. I am sure even something as simple as that would be corrupted beyond belief. I am losing faith in the whole thing.
Revolutions happen when people have no food, rights, health care, money, cars, gas, houses etc. Hey we keep getting closer.
I guess they better reward the banks for there ill acts with a big pay out so they don't close up and actually sow the seeds for a revolt. revolting!!! I'm gonna puke.

Larisa Alexandrova did not call for a coup d 'etat.

Don't you remember, IT can mean whatever IT wants IT to mean. So said the great leader!

My standard response to idiots, like Alexandrovna, who assert that we're already living under a Fourth Reich is:

"Well, if that's the case, why aren't you already behind barbed wire...and why am I not guarding you?"
Posted by: MarkJ at September 21, 2008 08:40 AM

Mark, so you're saying that you want to be a Nazi concentration camp guard?

If I told you the sky was plaid, would you even bother to look up to question me?

At the risk of being a xenophobe, what's up with these "recent transplants" like Ariana (Greek) Huffington, Larisa (Russian) Alexandrovna, and George (Hungary) Soros lecturing the rest of us on what's good for America?

Can't they take a cue from Governator Arnold and embrace the American Way of Doing Things?

Sorry, but i won't give absolute power to anybody. isn't that what this is about? How can anybody give total power to anybody in Washington?

Interesting that this "confederate yankee" is more concerned with taking personal swipes at the author than addressing the facts referred to in the article. Are you taking lessons from McCain? It's a pretty common tactic. When someone points out the glaring mistakes (or purposeful treacheries) that have occured on Bush's watch, and with republican approval... well, you simply attack them *personally*, but for god's sake, don't address the issues they raise! That would be a slippery slope indeed.

You should know that she is far from alone in fearing that Americans will reach the collective end of their rope...Ask yourself, all this chipping away at our constitutional rights that Bush & co. has done, and now wanting to remove the power from our elected representatives...all quite methodical...you don't think they did all this for nothing, do you? The author is quite simply saying "Open your eyes. Something very bad is on the way."

Oh, and lastly, I find it ridiculous that "liberal" has become the new republican catch-all phrase for anyone that doesn't think exactly like "you". Not all Democrats are liberals, not all liberals are democrats, etc, etc, but you should KNOW this already.

KJ, the problem with far left wing nutcases like yourself is you don't give any specifics. You just lie. What constitutional rights have been taken away from you? From everything I've seen it is you and the left that advocates fascism.

"Not all Democrats are liberals"

I make a pretty hard distinction between Democrats and Liberals, as well as Republicans and Conservatives. And I think that's fair.

But then I've had a Liberal Democrat tell me that those are the same thing. She would know, because she's both, and I wouldn't because I'm neither. She also said that she wanted to kill the President, and views Pravda more favorably than FoxNews, so go figure.

As for the actual topic of this thread, I'll restate that I believe that the violent overthrow of our entire republic would be counterproductive. That's one of the things that set me apart from Liberals. Or maybe I should say Democrats, because I've been informed that those are synonyms.

"I can only hope the lawful authorities are monitoring such enticements towards insurrection with all due seriousness, and find a nice, well-lit and cheery cell for those who require one."

The rest of this blog and the other blog aside, do keep in mind that the declaration of independence itself contains incitement towards insurrection under dire circumstances.

You right wingers are like Hitler's Brownshirts. If true patriots were to stand up to the leaders of this nation and were willing to fight them for our freedom from fascism you say you will shoot them therefore standing with the Fascist. You are enemies of the constitution and therefore enemies of the people. It is sad that the right have become cowardly bigots that will follow blindly and obey the party line above country. They have sunk to new lows.

As a relatively conservative democrat I am probably too conservative for the people posting here calling themselves Liberal and too left for the people posting here calling themselves whatever a Confederate Yankee might be. with that caveat, I will throw my two cents in with the expectation of pleasing no one.

The quoted post if accurate is nonsense. The "bailout" in question appears to be following constitutional legislative process. The cabinet presented the bailout to congress and that is where the spending power likely to be exercised resides. Not sure where the upset of the balance of powers is happening there.

Hmm... also not sure where the problem is with the poster suggesting that the appropriate reaction to what's not happening is revolution. Suggest away. Pretty sure that this is protected speech as she is not inciting in a specific enough manner to be a crime. Layered on top of that is the basic premis underlying the constitution (and even closer to her critics hearts the right to bear arms), that IF we were faced with an issue where revolution was appropriate -- our magnificent constitution supports its legality.

So lets not attack the alleged writer for something other than the issue at hand: its just a dumb post. Unfortunately the post (if accurate, again, I have not fact checked it) just doesn't even come close to touching on an issue that comes close to anything reasonably supporting revolution.

Bailing out AIG is almost certainly a good idea. Lousy place to be, but probably necessary. This is just my opinion as someone with 20ish years in the commercial insurance industry. We won't know what it means one way or the other for ten years, but a little socialized solution scares me less than AIG going under. AIG going bust with 30% share of virtually every insurance market scares the hell out of me. I know it is going to come at tax payer expense, but the problem is that it would probably hit us all in the pocket book anyway through increased costs, business failures, and personal un-insured losses. My perception is that the current bailout is unavoidable now -- but might not have been if there had been more oversight. I have not heard either party talking about the platform for oversight of financial markets eight or ten years ago, so I am not sure who gets the high ground on this issue.

Anyway, that is all I have on the issue at the moment. I have my pocket constitution in hand, so fire away.

REAL Americans believe this:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR ABOLISH IT, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

ARE YOU QUESTIONING MY PATRIOTISM?!?!?!?!?!?!

Oh look, my comment got deleted because of a "no swearing" rule. Some fuckin' "Confederate" you are, Yankee jackass.