December 08, 2008

Just When You Thought It Was Over...

...Scalia adds another Obama citizenship case to the Supreme Court's Dec. 12 docket, Wrotnowski Vs. Bysiewicz.

Let the fun and games begin continue!

Posted by Confederate Yankee at December 8, 2008 09:54 PM

I keep thinking of the old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times.

Posted by: NevadaDailySteve at December 8, 2008 10:17 PM

So.... do we have a Constitution in the USA?? Has someone decided the Constitution matters?? What are they going to do when we all look at our Government and no longer believe it's "our Government" because they refuse to follow the Constitution??

They cannot sweep this matter under the carpet without it creating a backlash.

Posted by: l at December 9, 2008 12:06 AM

Think of it as a bailout for unemployed lawyers...

Posted by: Adriane at December 9, 2008 01:26 AM

I would really like to see The One be forced to produce a real birth certificate. I have little doubt that he is constitutionally qualified, but it would serve two purposes. First, it would silence all but the most dedicated kooks on the issue. Having regularly skewered my liberal friends for the past 8 years over their fever swamp ravings, it is annoying to constantly hear from them about this from conservatives. Second, The One has a long history of disinformation and secrecy, and it would be good for him to start his administration with a reminder that even The One must comply with minimal levels of openness.

Posted by: Tregonsee at December 9, 2008 06:06 AM

There is a certain symmetry about asking Obama to provide a birth certificate. The democrats asked if McCain's birth in the Canal Zone disqualified him. McCain published the document - game over.

Why isn't Obama willing to do the same?

Posted by: arch at December 9, 2008 08:10 AM

My final two cents (even though I don't have much sense!) on this topic, the matter of his citizenship: He is a US citizen, without question. US citizens are either natural born or naturalized. Those are the only two statuses of US citizenship. There is no gray area.

If he is not a natural born citizen there would be a public record of his having gone through the naturalization process. For those of you who doubt his status as a natural born citizen, find the public record showing when and where he became a naturalized US citizen. Any journalist, citizen of average intelligence, attorney or private investigator should be able to locate that record without too much effort or expense, if it indeed exists. Produce that public record and those of you who question his citizenship status will have made your point. And, you will have convinced me, a person who voted for him, that he is not Constitutionally qualified to be our nation's President.

I rest my case.


Posted by: Dude at December 9, 2008 10:48 AM


It's a lot more complicated than "your case."

If, as the former democrat AG of Pennsylvania suit claims, Obama's mother remarried and his Indonesian stepfather adopted him while they were in Indonesia, then he became an Indonesian citizen in order to attend school there, he would have lost his US citizenship, if he was actually born here.

This scenario would also explain the questionable documents about Barack draft registration. Had he not been a US citizen, he would not be required to sign up with selective service.

If, as Obama's Kenyan grandmother claims, he was born in Kenya, he would not be a US citizen unless he was naturalized.

The smart move would be to do what McCain did and provide his birth certificate.

Posted by: arch at December 9, 2008 11:20 AM

Posting this again, because I can see from of the comments that other people are not getting this information. And it's important that they do.

Obama HAS PRODUCED AND SHOWN his official short-form birth certificate, which has been seen and touched in physical reality by and, and which has been fully vouched for by the State of Hawaii.

Obama IS NOT ABLE TO "produce" his long-form birth certificate, because it CAN NOT be viewed OR copied for Obama. The State of Hawaii does not make copies of the long-form birth certificates FOR ANYONE, FOR ANY REASON. They do not even have a process in place for it.

This is all in the public record.

Posted by: jim at December 9, 2008 03:38 PM

And as for Obama's grandmother's "Claims", if you actually listen to the full audio of this 85-year-old woman being interviewed by a translator with a hidden agenda, they starts correcting the interviewer as soon as they realize the incorrect statements he's attributing to her.

And separately, being a citizen of another nation does not somehow "cancel out" your US citizenship. There are plenty of fully legal US-born citizens, who have dual citizenship in other countries due to their parents.

So even IF there was some sort of massive conspiracy involving hiding Obama's birthplace, he would STILL be a US citizen because his mother is.

Believe whatever you want - just be aware that, in this case, your belief is utterly contradicted by facts.

Posted by: jim at December 9, 2008 03:44 PM

Well, we should have impeached and imprisoned the five Supreme Court justices that committed the greatest act of judicial corruption in our country's history by making George Bush president.

If we had done that, chances are that these two criminals would not be using their position to undermine the first legitimately elected President in eight years.

Posted by: Green Eagle at December 9, 2008 03:45 PM

uh... green eagle ur incorrect
the greatest act of judicial corruption in our nations history is roe v. wade
this decision is in direct opposition to the 10th amendment of our Constitution which gives the states the right to make laws concerning rights not enumerated in the Bill of Rights
And i say this as a Pro Choice Social Liberal

Posted by: MAModerate at December 9, 2008 04:04 PM

MAModerate, so you're saying Roe v. Wade is a violation of State's rights - but the SCOTUS decision to overturn the Florida recount and select GWB was not?

Posted by: jim at December 9, 2008 06:33 PM

Hey, Jim... you might look at history and see who went to the courts first in that fight.

Hint: It wasn't Booooooooooosh.

Posted by: ConservativeWanderer (formerly C-C-G) at December 9, 2008 07:50 PM

Obama HAS PRODUCED AND SHOWN his official short-form birth certificate, which has been seen and touched in physical reality by and, and which has been fully vouched for by the State of Hawaii.

Uhhhhh, no.

Not that I really think The Proclaimed One is not "natural born"; it's just the arrogance of the one who ran against for President against his opponant's vice running mate's new born child; that if the one wanted it could have asked the State of Hawaii to release his actual birth certs and put them into public records (like most States 'BCs are) rather than having his HI hitmen pull a mirror image of the Joe Plumber hit.

In other words, rather than publish an invalidated BC on the net, and having his Hawaii hitmen claim they know the one was born their, The Proclaimed could have just asked the State drone break out the official seal, stamp an unaltered BC, make it uh, "official", and published it.

Uhhhhh, no.

In fact, as a state drone, I can assure you if YOU do the same to your State ID as what the one did and presented it to a cop in a traffic stop you may have some 'splainin to do.

Posted by: Druid at December 9, 2008 08:55 PM

Druid: Uhhhh, yes.

Wanting things to be different from the facts, doesn't change the facts.

Here's, looking at Obama's short-form birth certificate in real, live physical form.

Here's, doing the same.

Here's factcheck regarding the long form:

"The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department."

So, to sum up:

1) Obama's birth certificate has been independently verified in person by two nonpartisan fact-checking websites, in addition to being validated by the State of Hawaii.

2) This birth certificate has all the information needed for the State Department, which includes for passports and security clearances.

3) The State of Hawaii does not make long-form birth certificates available to anyone.

4) As a side note, the Governor of Hawaii is Republican and campaigned for McCain. Do you really think that if there was a chance in heaven that Obama wasn't a citizen, the Governor wouldn't have pushed this to Hell and back?

Obama is now showing you the best documentation that the State of Hawaii will give to ANY citizen.

I hope that you will now adjust your worldview to correspond with these facts.

Posted by: another jim at December 9, 2008 09:27 PM

another jim -

The only concern of the State Department is that you are legally eligible to leave the country and return to it.

Obama is not asking the State Department's permission to travel. He has declared that he is eligible to become President.

There is a difference.

Posted by: Adriane at December 10, 2008 01:01 AM

I'll give you two words to explain why I don't buy any of these birth certificate conspiracy theories floating around: Hillary Clinton.

I may disagree with her politically--and I do, but even her opponents must admit that she is one of the best connected and ruthless politicians on the scene today. The Clintons have contacts at every level of government, and they've never shied away from the politics of personal destruction.

If concrete evidence exists that would legally disqualify Obama from holding the Oval Office, the Clintons and their minions almost certainly would have been able to find it. And given the cutthroat nature of the Democratic primaries this year, there's no doubt that if she'd had it, Hillary would have used this evidence against Obama.

The simple fact that one of the most vicious politicians of the age didn't use this attack against Obama shows me that there simply is nothing to this charge, and those who keep bringing it up--on both sides--remind me quite a lot of those dimwits who still think that Bush had something to do with planning and/or executing the 9/11 attacks.

Let's not go down that road, fellow conservatives. Leave the wacko conspiracy theories for the lefties who put mirrors on their shoes to watch for Black Helicopters.

Posted by: ConservativeWanderer (formerly C-C-G) at December 10, 2008 08:23 AM

Well said CY. My sentiments exactly. How about that?! A conservative and a liberal have found common ground.

I have to remind some of my fellow Democrat friends (those who are conspiracy theorists) from time to time that Michael Moore is NOT a journalist.

Unfortunately, there will always be people who are oblivious to facts that get in the way of their bias. That's not a Democrat or Republican issue. It's a human nature issue.

Posted by: Dude at December 10, 2008 11:00 AM

That would be "CW", Dude. I really don't think CY (Bob Owens) is impersonating my friend CW :)

Posted by: PhyCon (formerly Mark) at December 10, 2008 03:02 PM

Actually, Adriane, the State Department doesn't only issue passports. It also handles some security clearances.

Other Federal entities which grant security clearances include the NSA, CIA, FBI - all consider a short-form birth certificate that has been validated by the state that issued it, as sufficient for identifying the person.

And in all of this, the State Department must determine that the person's citizenship information is correct, before they will issue a passport or a security clearance.

And State Department considers a short-form birth certificate perfectly adequate for this, as long as they can validate it with the individual state which issued it - as *also* do the NSA, CIA, FBI, DIA, etc. etc.

That's just how it is.

Posted by: jim at December 10, 2008 04:32 PM

"That would be "CW", Dude. I really don't think CY (Bob Owens) is impersonating my friend CW :)"

Oops! Sorry about that!


Posted by: Dude at December 10, 2008 05:20 PM

No problem, Dude... I guess I should have thought of the possible confusion of initials when I picked my new nom-de-blog (to go with my new blog). Ahh, well, live and learn.

And I imagine that there are quite a lot of things we could agree on... such as, for example, that the sound of fingernails down a blackboard is a Bad Thing. :D

Posted by: ConservativeWanderer (formerly C-C-G) at December 10, 2008 07:08 PM