I'm not sure that's a definitive argument in favor of forgery. Everybody knew that the Dominion was just a temporary one-year status. They may have just started using Republic of Kenya right away for paperwork. In any event, that's something that is easily verified.

The lack of provenance of the document, and the way it is turning up just now is more suspicious.

Well, dang.

I'm still not going to get my questions answered!

What to do about the fact that the State of Hawaii has certified that he was born there?

What to do about the fact that the Congress has certified that he is qualified to serve and was elected?

He was installed as President of the United States. What do we do about the fact that the Constitution provides only one way to get rid of a sitting President (impeachment and conviction) and the language on provides for two more which are serious crimes?

Guess I'll go back to searching for pictures of the Mr. And Mrs. Palin wherein they do NOT look like they are on their way to bed, or just recently departed same.

"They may have just started using Republic of Kenya right away for paperwork. In any event, that's something that is easily verified."

Please name a single verified example of such prudence by goobermint officials.

The newest "certificate" is also missing a couple of signatures.

Steady people. If anyone will go to great lengths to investigate the birth certificate as to its legitamacy, it'll be WND.

Could be as claimed...his father needed to establish his relation to his son for the purpose of divorce to occur a month later....but that said, it should be easy to look up in Kenyan records since the book and page are listed. I can't believe none of the 'birthers' haven't rushed to do just that. Have a video camera rolling open the book to said page and see just who is there. Probably easier still pull someone elses birth certificate from a similar date (can't believe only one birth cert was done that day). Does it look the same?...have the 'republic' on it?

The burden of proof does not rest upon those who doubt the claimant. The burden of proof rests solely upon the claimant. Mr. Obama has said, "I am qualified to be president." Forty million American citizens have said, "Prove it." Mr. Obama and his supporters have said in reply, "Prove that I'm not!"

Mr. Obama, et al, have offered a simple and obvious Burden of Proof Fallacy in support of their claims and then followed it up with Appeals
to Ridicule, to Popularity, to Authority and to False Dilemma/False Choice. ("Believe me or
else you're a nutjob!") In view of the lack of presentation of an original document, there can only be one rational conclusion: An original document does not exist, or if it does actually exists, it contains information that disproves the assertions made by Mr. Obama, the claimant.

At the moment, there is more proof for the existence of UFO's, remote viewing and psychic phenomena than there is for an original document of Obama's birth certificate. 'I saw it! It really, really exists!" or "John Doe has a picture of a certifed copy stating that it exists, so it must be true!" is not an original document.

In view of the objective evidence, it is a very sane and rational question to ask.

Where is the - original - birth certificate?

Please note: You are now openly promoting
intolerance (hatred and possibly evenn violence) against approximately 40 million American adults of every race and religion who simply disagree with you.

s.
Warren "Bones" Bonesteel
Author and Researcher
Sgt USMC 1976-1983
55 Crestview Drive
Rapid City, SD 57701
(605) 348-2830
wrsteel@blackhawke.net

=====
refer:

Clearing the Smoke on Obama's Eligibility:
An Intelligence Investigator's June 10 Report

=====
Natural Born Citizen defined same way seven times:

Senators Introduce Resolution To Make Clear Senate's Position On Candidate's
Status. WASHINGTON (Thursday, April 10, 2008)

Kenya became independent on 12 December 1963 and prior to that Jomo Kenyatta (Kenya's first president) had already formed a government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya

Yes it is true that the seal of the offical and his attestation as to accuracy of the recorded birth was made "17th day of February, 1964.".

What he/she is attesting to is the 1961 birth record.

This new BC reminds me of a personal story.

There was an interesting email roomor (intentional misspelling for the filter) going around recently claiming that Obama was going to take away the Superbowl trophy from the team that won it this year and give it to the team that had lost the most games last season, in a sense of "fairness". this document was presented as if it came from ESPN, complete with their logo. Upon close examination, as in right at the top of the article, it was dated, if I remember correctly, March 32, 2009!

My friend who sent it to me(and called me on the phone even before I read the email) was really upset that Obama was going to do this dastardly deed. The person who had sent it to him was even more upset than my friend. Long story short, my friend called the corporate office of The Pittsburgh Steelers, the winning team, to verify that this rumor was, well, just that: a rumor. They assured him that it was.

He was then able to convince his friend, who had sent him the email to begin with, by pointing out the date on the article and telling him of his phone call to the Steelers office, that the whole mess was just another internet rumor. His friend, an active duty Miami police officer, was finally convinced that you can't believe everything that you read on the internet!

Another interesting fact. Mombasa Kenya and the territory around the city belonged to the Sultan of Zanzibar and was ceded to Kenya in October 1963. Therefore if BHO Jr. were born in Mombasa in 1961, he was born in the Sultanate of Zanzibar, not the Colony of Kenya.

If they did start issuing certificates for the RoK pre-December 1964, doesn't this lend to the credence that this is a valid document?

If they made this up, it'd be an easy fact to check. A basic fact to check. Therefore, if they did start issuing certs pre-December 1864, then either that person is going to HUGE HUGE lengths to pull of the forgery or it is valid.

Mr Bonesteel,

The owner of this forum is most certainly NOT:

".....openly promoting intolerance (hatred and possibly even violence) against approximately 40 million American adults of every race and religion....."

If you were a regular visitor to this forum you would be aware that this topic has been discussed at length in several separate threads, with opinions offered and discussed at length, often very heatedly, by people on both sides of this issue.

While it is notable that you are able to label some of the different types of fallacies used in argumentation, it is disappointing that you then proceed to use several fallacies as you present your argument.

Your post is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

WIKI :

Despite British hopes of handing power to "moderate" African rivals, it was the Kenya African National Union (KANU) of Jomo Kenyatta that formed a government shortly before Kenya became independent on 12 December 1963.

... After Kenya's independence on December 12, 1963 ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya

BBC:

After independence from Britain in 1963, politics was dominated by the charismatic Jomo Kenyatta.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1024563.stm

CONFEDERATE YANKEE APPEARS TO BE WRONG.

THE DOC MIGHT BE REAL!

So Warren which 40 million people question his birth country? if you mean the 40 million who voted for McCain you are WRONG because the 4 in my house who voted for him do not question his legality. You tools would like to think everyone who voted for McCain (under duress) see's things your way but the most I will give you is the same 20 to 25% who were truthers during Bush's years. Which is to say that there are a certain number of Americans who will BUY ANYTHING YOU ARE SELLING!

This will resolve it: look at the PROVINCIAL BIRTH RECORD for the COAST PROVINCE, Republic of Kenya, BOOK 44B, Page 5733. The core validity of the document is right there. Anyone know anyone in Kenya? Perhaps at the Embassy?

The CIA World Factbook says Kenya became independent in 1963.

Hmmm... any source other than wikipedia? That's not really one of the ones I'm inclined to trust much.

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Republic+of+Kenya
"The 1963 constitution, amended in 1964, 1969, 1982, and 1992, provides for..."

I am still skeptical of this new document, but I think I will reserve judgement for a bit...

The fact that BarriO had a Kenyan father is enough to deprive him of his natural born citizen status.
He was born with dual nationality...that is a disqualifier.

I can not believe he got elected. But I can't believe San Fran Nan either. The country has been in deep trouble before and because of this, it is again.

This is getting rather interesting.

Note that our goal as Americans should be to uncover the truth about Pres. Obama's birthplace, whether it was Honolulu or Mombasa.

Torabora, Could you please provide us with credible evidence that the non-citizen status of one's parents disqualifies an individual of natural born citizen status. By credible evidence I mean a Constitutional definition or a Supreme Court ruling that stands to this day. Thank you.

The fellas at FR just got their collective leg pulled with this fake; "E. F. Lavender" the "registrar" is a play on "Earth Friendly Lavender" a hippie-type detergent/cleaner.

QUESTION:

What happens to Judge Sotomayor’s confirmation as Supreme Court Justice if the Constitution’s “natural born citizen” Presidential eligibility requirement is subsequently determined applicable to Barack Obama on the basis of Article 2’s exclusion of dual citizenship birth (doesn’t matter whether Obama born in Hawaii since his dad was British citizen at the time)? It would seem prudent, if not dereliction of Constitutional duty in not so doing, for the United States Senate to defer voting on Judge Sotomayor’s confirmation at the very least until there is determination, now imminent, on standing in Kerchner v. Congress (USDC NJ) on that precise issue (Congressional failure to take up the raised and known constitutional ineligibility question prior to declaring a Presidential winner in the vote of the electoral college). For the full Senate now to proceed to vote to confirm Judge Sotomayor (an otherwise lifetime appointment) before then, would be a knowing and very substantial exacerbation of any inherent Constitutional crisis — compounding the previous Congressional dereliction. That is, the Executive Branch, as well as conceivably all actions of a Congress under a President determined ineligible, would leave the Supreme Court as an essential unfettered remaining Branch of the Federal Government, that is unfettered so long as Mr. Obama’s appointment to the Court is not yet confirmed by the Senate.

Will not one Senator, let alone Republican Senator, raise this issue on the Senate floor? The nation is watching.

It's a fake. The date doesn't work on the document. According to newspaper accounts from December 1964 (I just looked up on a historical newspapers database at university library), Kenya's legislature passed legislation converting it to a republic on 12 December 1964. A February 1964 form would not have identified the country as a republic. This is a later piece of paper typed up to "look" right but it's like the famous Kennedy letters about Marilyn Monroe that had zip codes on them.

"It's a fake. The date doesn't work on the document."

To my thinking the "certificate #" was the wink,wink tipoff.

The number: 47O44 - Obama's age 47, the capital "O" (not a 0 - zero) and he is President number 44.

Got to give credit to the maker of this pownage, though. Funny stuff.

From the US State department site:

"Government
Type: Republic.
Independence: December 12, 1963.
Constitution: 1963.

The first direct elections for Africans to the Legislative Council took place in 1957. Kenya became independent on December 12, 1963, and the next year joined the Commonwealth. Jomo Kenyatta, an ethnic Kikuyu and head of the Kenya African National Union (KANU), became Kenya's first President. The minority party, Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU), representing a coalition of small ethnic groups that had feared dominance by larger ones, dissolved itself in 1964 and joined KANU."

Indeed, if you check out this copy of the Constitution which has all of the revisions through 2008 noted along with the date of the particular revision, it seems to fly in the face of the wikipedia citation

But then we all know how steadfast and reliable Wikipedia is...

So it seems that there is a chance that the document is legitimate. I think that we should leave it to the courts to decide; I'm certain they'll call for verification by both comparison and through the cited record numbers on the document...

I think a wait and see outlook is in order. And, as I've said all along, If this gets Obama to finally releaze the long form Hawaiian BC along with his other buried academic and legislative records then the trouble will have been worth it...

Best Wishes

Bob Reed--this is one where wikipedia has to go out the window. You have to search for more serious sources. The official website for the Ministry of State for Defense of the Republic of Kenya indicates (section: History of the Kenya Navy) that the country became a Republic on 12 December 1964, one year after independence. The significance of that for the Kenyan Navy is that upon assumption of a republican form of government, they had to drop the "Royal" from in front of the name of the Navy (and thus is noteworthy in its history).

Thus an official document dated prior to 12 December 1964 CANNOT be that of the Republic of Kenya.

Jack, Could you please quote directly from Article II of the Constitution, or even from a standing SCOTUS ruling, what you refer to as:

"Article 2’s exclusion of dual citizenship birth"

I've just read Article II. I can't seem to find that clause to which you refer.

Furthermore, I can't seem to find anywhere in the Constitution or in any still standing SCOTUS ruling that a child born on American soil to non-citizen parents is disqualified from natural born citizen status, with a few exceptions, none of which would apply to President Obama's situation.

YOU LIBS ARE SO DESPERATE TO COVER UP THE FACT THAT OBAMA HAS NEVER PRODUCED A BIRTH CERTIFICATE YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES! IMPEECH THE USURPER!!! WE NEED ONE OF OUR OWN KIND IN THE WHITE HOUSE! IF HE'S NOT GONE BY 2012 SARAH PALIN WILL GET RID OF HIM THE OLD FASHIONED WAY - DEMOCRACY!!!

Indeed it does. Also, if you review the Kenyan Consitition with amendments you will see the that sections addressing Kenya's form as a republic have not been amended since the original constition was adopted: http://www.constitutionnet.org/files/Kenyan%20constitution%20amended%202008.pdf

Oops! Where'd that December 12, 1964 date come from CY? Looks like that was from Wikipedia, which, as we all know, is the authoritative reference these days.

This forgery most likely originates with Democratic Underground.

It has their amateurish fingerprints all over it.

Dunno about you and your rush to judgement, but I'm waiting to hear from noted document validator Mary Mapes. Isn't it curious that she hasn't yet weighed in on this, since it's right in her area of expertise?

Obviously, somebody has gotten to her and forced her to keep quiet! Anyway, even if this document is not precisely, exactly 100% factual, that in no way impeaches the underlying narrative. Wasn't it Evan Thomas who set us all straight on the relation of facts to narrative? The latter trumps the former every time.

CY,

Thank you for being forthright about this "document." It doesn't really benefit any of us, on either side, to waste time on things like this, and I appreciate it when people go to some effort to spend their time on something that has some relevance.

I am definitely on the other side of the political fence from you, but I think there is a place in our political discourse for anyone who makes an effort to stick to reality.

Jan 20, 1964 Ann Dunham Obama files for divorce...kinda ironic that it was inauguration day

Feb 17, 1964 ... copy of Obama birth registration is sent out

March 1964...divorce becomes final

it does not take too much intelligence to know that a US court of law would need proof of the birth father of the perported child for custody purposes, especially since Obama Sr was not present for the divorce and had not responded to the initial court requests.

It is all documented and the date of Feb 1964 fits perfectly into the timeline of Ann's court filings

"Torabora, Could you please provide us with credible evidence that the non-citizen status of one's parents disqualifies an individual of natural born citizen status. By credible evidence I mean a Constitutional definition or a Supreme Court ruling that stands to this day. Thank you.
Posted by: Dude at August 2, 2009 10:37 PM"

"Article II, Section 1, Clause 5...No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President...."

The clause was recommended by the subsequent first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Jay, and approved by the Founding Fathers and Congress for the specific purpose of excluding anyone born with an allegiance to a foreign sovereign from serving as Commander-in-Chief of the United States. The intended purpose as expressed by John Jay and others was consistent with the requirement for citizen fathers and/or citizen parents as described in Vattel, Law of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 19 and centuries of various preceding French and other Continetal laws and customs at least as far back as the Roman Republic.

Contrary English-British common-law precedents did not apply in post-Revolutionary United States with respect to citizenship, as plainly evidenced by the individual states adopting citizenship statutes in substitution for the preceding and intensely reviled and rejected British common-law regardig citizenship.

The definition provided by Vattel was subsequently affirmed by a number of Federal court cases and Supreme Court decision/s, including Minor v. Happersett 1874.

Persons having foreign citizenship at birth or dual citizenship at birth cannot and do not qualify as the Constitutional "natural born citizen" lacking any "natural born" condition of foreign allegiance at birth.

Damn'it, CY, Kenya went independent on Dec. 12, 1963, and the released document has the date of Feb. 17, 1964...

Kenya became a Republic December 12, 1964. Here's the write up in an Australian newspaper on December 14 of that year.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=8BkTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rZYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6977,2513545&dq=kenya+republic

The document is a fake.

If that's not enough, here's an excerpt from an LA Times newspaper story from August 5, 1964:

"Kenya will become a republic Dec. 12, a year after obtaining independence from Great Britain, Prime Minister Jomo Kenyatta announced in parliament Friday."

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/477496382.html?dids=477496382:477496382&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=Aug+15%2C+1964&author=&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&desc=Kenya+Republic+Set+for+Dec.+12&pqatl=google

"Free Man" at 12:06 AM:

WE NEED ONE OF OUR OWN KIND IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

Methinks that "Free Man" is actually a prisoner of his own racist mindset.

Obama is a human being and a natural-born citizen of the United States. He IS of "our own kind".

Mike Bravo,

The case that you cited, Minor v. Happersett (1874), has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. It most certainly does nothing to clarify the term "natural born citizen". Nothing.

You go on to say: "Contrary English-British common-law precedents did not apply in post-Revolutionary United States with respect to citizenship, as plainly evidenced by the individual states adopting citizenship statutes in substitution for the preceding and intensely reviled and rejected British common-law regardig citizenship."

The current law of the land in regards to defining the term "natural born citizen" was decided in the 6-2 majority opinion of the SCOTUS in the United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) case.

Contrary to your assertion, and that of Vattel, "that English-British common-law precedents did not apply in post-Revolutionary United States with respect to citizenship", The Wong Kim Ark Opinion ruled otherwise. The Court clearly ruled that birth on US soil = natural born citizen.

That decision and the definition that came from it was further enhanced by later Supreme Court cases:

Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)

Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967)

If a person DOES meet the natural born citizen qualification at birth (as Obama does), there is no Constitutional prohibition or SCOTUS ruling, to date, that has ruled that someone who IS a natural born citizen of the US, and is also or has been a dual citizen, cannot or does not qualify for the office of POTUS.

If a person DOES meet the natural born citizen qualification at birth (as Obama does), there is no Constitutional prohibition or SCOTUS ruling, to date, that has ruled that someone who IS a natural born citizen of the US, and is also or has been a dual citizen, cannot or does not qualify for the office of POTUS.

"To Date" Because no one has had the audacity to try it. You forget the vetting John McCain went through when he was running for President,and he was born on a U.S. Military Base Hospital in Panama. The LEFT tried to claim that made him ineligible to run for President, typical double standard.

The fact that BarriO had a Kenyan father is enough to deprive him of his natural born citizen status.
He was born with dual nationality...that is a disqualifier.

Posted by: torabora at August 2, 2009 10:27 PM

Apparently the US Congress disagrees with you.

sorry, but this "proof" of its forgery isn't worth a pot to *** in.

to discover if the particular item you mention makes it a forgery, just find some other authentic kenyan bc of that time period and see what they call it.

duh!!!!!

The problem I noticed was his mother's birthplace. I have read many accounts stating that she was born in Leavenworth, Kansas, not Wichita. This would make sense if her father was in the Army in February, 1942, as there were and are Army facilities in Leavenworth.

Apparently the new found birth certificate is as legit as the old piece of toilet paper the Obamanites are peddling as the 'real thing'.

"On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya achieved full independence. Jomo Kenyatta, a nationalist leader during the independence struggle who had been jailed by the British, was its first president."

Seems the country of Kenya would call you a liar.
www information go ke

Maybe you ought to check your facts instead of regurgitating garbage. And allow URL's

Seems the left will tell any lie to cover up our Indonesian Illegal Alien President. At least till he provides some real proof he isn't.

Jasperjava said, "Obama is ... a natural-born citizen of the United States."

Where is the proof that Obama is a "natural born citizen"? If Obama is for change and open government, why isn't he offering proof that he is a "natural born citizen" and not just an American citizen? All we've seen is a questionable short-form birth certificate which does not prove that he is a natural born citizen.

Assuming Obama was born in Hawaii, that does not automatically mean that he is a natural born citizen. Article II of our Constitution requires that a president be a natural born citizen. "Natural born Citizen" status requires not only birth on U.S. soil but also birth to parents who are both U.S. citizens by birth or naturalization. Obama Senior was not a US citizen.

http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/07/citizen-at-birth-cab-does-not-equal.html

In fact, FighttheSmears/Factcheck admits that Obama was/is also a British subject--meaning that Obama fails the natural born citizen requirement of the US Constitution.

http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/07/obama-president-of-us-is-currently-also_29.html
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/05/the-relevant-obama-admission/

P.S. If the short-form Hawaii birth certificate that Obama has posted is an authentic copy of the 1961 original, then why does it use an ethnic category that was not officially allowed in 1961??

http://rightsidenews.com/200908025783/editorial/obamas-father-qafricanq-in-a-1961-world-of-qnegroq.html

This is supposed to be a "certified copy", so the date is when the copy was made from the original register. They make a copy (and sign it) when you order and pay for it.

The musings about when exactly Kenya became a republic establish nothing more than that the country was in transition at the time (as was Hawaii). What this means at the local government level ... who the heck knows!

I am sure its not the first priority of incoming governments to attend to the bureau of vital statistics.

The debunkers are as tin-foil as the birthers are being made out to be.

On the other hand, this paper denotes the actual page of an actual register with the names of 3 officials that could be corroborated. Take a look at that instead of playing gotcha with wikipedia opinions about Kenyan statehood.

Steve, etc.

Let me type this sl-o-w-l-y so that you might be able to follow along.

On December 12, 1963, the colony of Kenya achieved independence. The transitional governor during this time period was Malcolm MacDonald. The country was known during this time period as the Dominion of Kenya.

Exactly one year later, on December 12, 1964, the Kenyan government voted to become the Republic of Kenya.

Therefore, any document—such as this fake birth certificate—that was created prior to December 12, 1964 is a fake.

Good grief.

1964 is when they officially changed their status to a republic ... but they had been calling themselves that for a while.

The constitution written in 63 refers to them as The Republic of Kenya ...

http://www.constitutionnet.org/files/Kenyan%20constitution%20amended%202008.pdf

For the record, OBAMA is the one who needs to END THIS. And the way he can 'end it' is by SHOWING his LONG FORM Birth Certificate.

Bob Reed at 11:23

Yes, I saw that. Somebody elsewhere pointed to another document from these same people which didn't use the word "republic" but that document was titled "Subsidiary Legislation 1963". It fleshes out the things in the Constitution which are said to depend on legislation.

As far as I can see, the Constitution of 1963 refers to Kenya as the "Republic of Kenya".

I need to look at the articles referenced by others here as to what actually happened in Dec of 1964 but I'm wondering if they basically were saying that the construction of the republic as an administrative form of government was complete.

World Net Daily said they have documents from the time period to compare with and the document seems consistent with those, but we don't know whether the documents they compared with were in the period between Dec of 1963 and Dec of 1964. I guess we'll have to wait on that.

But it seems to me that there's no denying that their Constitution itself said in 1963 that they were the "Republic of Kenya".

Is someone claiming that the 1963 Constitution siad something else, and if so, on the basis of what documentation?

Can anyone uncover other similar documents created at the same time to see if they have the same seal, signatures, country designation, type face, etc.? There's your smoking gun.

The Australian newspaper didn't say there had been a vote to become a republic. Seemed like the big thing there was that Kenyatta was called a president rather than the prime minister, which could be the final step in carrying out the transition to a republic as an administrative form of government.

But again, seems to me that the 1963 Constitution says it's the Republic of Kenya.

I'll look some more to try to see exactly what happened in Dec 1964.

Stinky Whizzleteeth,

That's what World Net Daily says they've done. They say it matches up.

Looking on Free Republic, people discussed the type fonts and whether they were done on a manual typewriter, the EF Lavender name, the use of initials, the presence of staple vs pin marks in the corner, the status of Mombasa in 1963, etc

Those things seem to line up in astounding accuracy if this is a forgery that screws up "The Republic of Kenya". If the whole basis for calling it a forgery is the "Republic of Kenya", which doesn't seem to be an inaccuracy after all, in light of their 1963 Constitution calling themselves that, then I don't think it could be called a "poor forgery" at all. Too much showing up accurate that would have required a lot of knowledge of minute details.

Again, we'll have to see what World Net Daily comes up with as comparison documents. I don't think this can be dismissed as a forgery so quickly though.

Considering this guy registered at Occidental as a foreign student and applied for foreign student aid, this much was released by the courts, under the name of Barry Sorento (sp?). At some point he became repatriated, right? Where are those records? People may be more comfortable if any information was released about this fraud. I heard someone on the radio spouting this is the smartest president we've ever had. What evidence do you have other then his pure arrogance. He barely got through high school as he was doing drugs, drinking and hanging out being educated by his communist mentor.

I know how much some people want a magic bullet to make him ineligible for the presidency, but where he was born is a red herring. His mother was a US citizen her whole life, so she was a citizen when he was born, and that makes him a natural-born, not naturalized citizen of the USA, just like McCain, just like myself, and just like the thousands of other Americans who are born overseas to American parents every year.

Get over it, people. You're barking at the moon.

-jcr

Not sure where this is from, but at
http://www.lotsofessays.com/viewpaper/1692638.html it says "After 68 years of British colonial rule, Kenya became independent in 1963 as a Republic within the British Commonwealth. Under Jomo Kenyatta, a Kenyan nationalist who had been imprisoned by the British, Prime Minister in 1963 and President 1964-1978, Kenya became reasonably stable politically."

Seems like the difference in 1964 was the switch from prime minister to president.

If somebody finds something about an actual declaration of becoming a republic that's something different than the requirement of having a president being fulfilled, please post it. Thanks!

Because this document is dated during that 'limbo" period, in which Kenya was independent but not officially designated as a republic, it is indeed possible that it called itself the "republic" before it was acknowledged as such. But Confed. Yankee needs to stop participating in the "politics of snark." If the birthers are stupid, and Obama is a citizen, then why won't he release the documents? His behavior is suspicious. Never mind all those questions about how he could have traveled to Pakistan with a U.S. passport at a time when ALL U.S. citizens were forbidden entry. He has never explained that one, either. But if he had a Kenyan or British passport (which could have been issued b/c he was born at a time when Kenyan citizenship conferred British citizenship), he could have traveled to Pakistan. So if he had a British/Kenyan passport, he could not be a natural-born U.S. citizen.

C'mon, Confed. Yankee: At least join the call for the documents! It's the only right thing to do at this point. The birthers are only asking for the proof that Obama has yet to show us. (The fact that Congress declared him eligible for the presidency is easily explained b/c Congress was controlled by the Democrats, who also refused to investigate legitimate claims of voter fraud by ALCORN.) So just produce the documents, Mr. Obama, if you have them (or has it taken this long to forge them?).

just posted an update for the Parliament of Kenya's official web site.

If you still think this faked birth certificate has even the faintest hope of being legitimate... well, I'm not sure what to tell you.

WorldNetDaily updated their article to address the issue of "Republic of Kenya". Notable is the absense of a statement saying that other Kenyan documents from the time used that term. So I would assume the documents they compared with were not from the Dec 1963 to Dec 1964 time period.

C'mon, Confed. Yankee: At least join the call for the documents! It's the only right thing to do at this point. The birthers are only asking for the proof that Obama has yet to show us.

Obama has already shown legal proof. You just don't want to accept it. That's your problem, not his and not mine.

I don't like the guy. I think he's dangerous. I think he has done and will continue to do things that will hurt our lovely little country. He even forced me to vote for John McCain, and I'll never forgive him for that. But he won. He's the President. Deal. With. It. Take the congress away from him in 2010 and the WH in 2012. But stop the lunacy, because voters tend not to listen to lunatics.

Good thing Hillary Clinton is in Kenya this week to straighten it all out.
Coincidence? LOL.

http://thepage.time.com/details-of-clintons-africa-trip/

The Certification of live birth documentation in Hawaii could be:
- filed by the mother and/or grandparents (since the mother was not 21). One does not have to be born in a hospital. However, one would want to record the birth information.
The only proof they would have to give is the new born baby and they swear that the baby was born in Hawaii. (Unless the baby is born in a hospital or delivered by a doctor, the only proof of birth is the parents and the baby. The baby could have been born on a beach in Hawaii for all we know.

By seeing the original Hawaiian documents one would see this.

The other reason for hiding the originals is that it would show that Barry Obama should really be called Barry Soetero (adopted by Lolo Soetero from Indonesia) and the only way to called Barry Obama again is to legally change his name.

I have seen half a dozen posts in the last 24 hours of newspaper articles from 1963 in which the country is referred to as The Republic of Kenya. I am going back and trying to find them. Here is one. So some newspapers referring to the country as ROK in 1963 lends credence to the document more than not.......http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2306351/posts?q=1&;page=4851

The question you DESPERATELY ignore is simply: "Why are the Obamatons spending millions in court cases across America to prevent the release of his birth certificate?" You have no answer, only insults. Yes liberals, you'll be receiving the most devastating education of your lives from BO. He relies on your ignorance and is thankful for it. So sad. I have made a fortune betting against his mindless policies in the market while you were flipping burgers. A very expensive education is unfolding just for you

Greg:

Let me help you with that. Published on April 11th, 1961 on Page 4 near top center of the page. Missouri Chillicothe Constitution Tribune in pdf format. The usage of 'Republic of Kenya' seems common place way before December of 1964.

PDF of the newspaper.

http://chillicothe.newspaperarchive.com/PdfViewer.aspx?img=114412159&src=browse

Here are more newspaper editions from November 15, 1963 referencing the country as The Republic Of Kenya......... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2306755/posts?q=1&;page=551

I seem to have fallen into a nest of troofers.

Got to weed out my list of must read blogs and find some that are talking about what is going on behind this birther smoke screen.

It seems pretty simple. If a person must go through a naturalization process, he or she is not a "natural born" citizen.

I seem to have fallen into a nest of troofers.

Got to weed out my list of must read blogs and find some that are talking about what is going on behind this birther smoke screen.
Posted by: Larry Sheldon at August 3, 2009 12:21 PM

OBOT DRONE ALERT!!!!

"Just as I said, the nation ceased to be a British colony on December 12, 1963. A year later, on December 12, 1964, it became the Republic of Kenya. Any document released in February of 1964, 10 months before the Kenyan government decided to call it a republic, is a fake"

What did Kenya call itself between declaring independence and becoming a Republic a year later? An Intelligent, objective and honest person would research this issue before declaring this document fake.

Further this document was purportedly issued in 1964 after Kenya became a Republic. Why would it then not refer to Kenya as a republic?

Unlike Obama's COLB this document contains information that will enable someone interested in the truth to prove its validity or otherwise.

What's fake here is Bob Owens' pretension at intelligent commentary.

Terry, you're an idiot.

Every source cited positively states that from December 12 1963 to December 12, 1964, the nation was called the Dominion of Kenya. That is not even in dispute, at least not by anyone with a middling degree of intelligence.

Further, December (when Kenya became a republic)is ten months after February (when the fake doc was said to have been issued), unless in Terryland the calendars run in reverse.

Any you question my commentary?

Good grief.

Here is the real issue everyone. I am one to say that Obama was born in Hawaii. The Africa thing is a diversion. Either way, it forces Obama to release his sealed long-form birth certificate. It was sealed because he was adopted by Soetero and became a citizen of Indonesia. THAT record is real and indisputeable people. Did he ever travel as an Indonesian to Pakisatan? Did he apply to college or law school as a foreign student? THIS is what we should be asking!

Duke:

Since Sgt. Bonesteel was kind enough to actually list the fallacies he identified, perhaps you would want to do the same.

re U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark

Wong has been criticized as one of the worst decisions ever made by SCOTUS. Here is an analysis.

http://federalistblog.us/2006/12/us_v_wong_kim_ark_can_never_be_considered.html

Nonetheless, until supplanted by a later ruling, it is the lodestar for "natural born citizen". Note: Does anyone else reading through U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark and Perkins v. Elg think the authors ar rather sloppy with the use of "native born citizen" and "natural born citizen"?

If the folks on this thread were instead members of a detective squad on a case, puzzling through the evidence, and lack thereof, there would probably be the same hypotheses, wild-a$$ guesses and head-scratching as we see here. After all, haven't we all been coached for years in "brainstorming" and "thinking outside the box"? But I doubt we would see anything like the sneers and vitriol we see on this thread. Why is that, do you suppose? Because the detectives are supposed to pursue the truth, and we are not? How many of us feel it our duty as citizens to seek the truth, wherever it leads, to meet our responsibilities?

Thank you Sgt. Bonesteel for framing the situation so well. Rather than speculate on the validity of the copy of the Kenyan birth certificate, why don't we see if we can find an actual Kenyan birth certificate from the same time and compare it to the copy? It might also be helpful to see whether Kenya began referring to itself at the beginning to the transition, in 1963, or at the end, in 1964. Let's deal in facts, not speculation.

"While I have thought that the circus of Taitz and Farah with their crew has been doing nothing but publicity stunts and having people chase red herrings, this has a hat off from the person who came forward with this.
It also points to why the people who have been scamming fake birth certificates this past month looking like the Obamaniacs assaulting Lawrence Sinclair, were probably low level plants to guard against this very document which has been picked up on tapped phone and email communications from it's surfacing.

All of this brings a conclusion this is Barack Obama's Waterloo.

agtG 246

PS: Is it not interesting that the residency of Stanley Ann Dunham Obama is Wichita, Kansas. That might be another Madelyn Dunham story.

Verify the Registrar and signature and let the good times roll".

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-i-can-tell-you-about-kenyan-obama.html

Publication Date 12 December 1963
Title Kenya Citizenship Act, Cap 170

OATH OF ALLEGIANCE
I....................................do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the Republic of Kenya and that I will support and uphold the Constitution of Kenya as by law established.

SO HELP ME GOD

[link to www.unhcr.org]

"Every source cited positively states that from December 12 1963 to December 12, 1964, the nation was called the Dominion of Kenya. That is not even in dispute, at least not by anyone with a middling degree of intelligence".

To bad your OPINION does not square with reality. 2 newspaper articles from 1963 using the term Republic Of Kenya. Guess their reporters had below middling intelligence right?

Pay attention and look at these links.

Here are more newspaper editions from November 15, 1963 referencing the country as The Republic Of Kenya......... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2306755/posts?q=1&;page=551

http://chillicothe.newspaperarchive.com/PdfViewer.aspx?img=114412159&src=browse

Is this where you dismiss the information because it was found on The Free Republic website?

Jose:

Current law seems to require a voluntary renunciation of U.S. citizenship once the person reaches majority; absent such positive action, U.S. citizenship is retained.

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/cases.html

Not to pick on lawyers, and with all due respect:

In the bad old days of programming, a program whose active code hopped all over the place and was hard to debug was called "spaghetti code". I've been programming for almost 40 years and I have never encountered as much "spaghetti code" as in the Supreme Court cases I have been trying to wade through. No wonder we need so many lawyers.

Further this document was purportedly issued in 1964 after Kenya became a Republic. Why would it then not refer to Kenya as a republic?

The above sentence in my previous post is wrong.

Bob, how do you explain the Kenyan Constitution referring to the nation in 1963 as "The Republic of Kenya"?

Every source cited positively states that from December 12 1963 to December 12, 1964, the nation was called the Dominion of Kenya. That is not even in dispute, at least not by anyone with a middling degree of intelligence.
...
Any you question my commentary?

Yes I question the commentary and bona fides of anyone who comes to conclusions without investigating the facts. You have an agenda.
If you wanted to know the truth you would be demanding Obama release his original LFBC.

How did Kenya record birth registrations between December 1963 when it declared independence and December 1964 when it officially became a republic. Produce a birth certificate that says Dominion of Kenya.

I have an open mind as to where Obama was born. Until the matter is investigated this is the only rational position.

Bob, how do you explain the Kenyan Constitution referring to the nation in 1963 as "The Republic of Kenya"?

Why would I care?

I've provided a link to the official Kenyan Parliament, where they say that their nation became a Republic on December 12, 1964.

Everything else is a moot point.

Why would a forger choose to make the date of release on this document right smack dab in the middle of Mombasa's transition between Britain, Keny, and Tanzania? If I was going to forge this I would have put it in 1962, when the status of Mombasa would have been known. Why would a forger deliberately put the issuance date in Feb of 1964?

In the end, we won't know if this is genuine unless and until it is authenticated by the Brits or Kenyans, although we could make a pretty good judgment on it if other docs from that transitional time period arise which either have or don't have "Republic of Kenya" on them.

Obviously you don't care. But I do, because what the government of Kenya called itself in that interim period is what is being argued over.

America was still The United States of America as per the Declaration of Independence of 1776 even though her first form of government was a CONFEDERACY under the Articles of Confederacy. What would birth certificates say during that interim period - United States of America, the American Confederacy, The Republic of the United States of America? What?

It doesn't matter what they say about the status or name 10 years later, with the benefit of hindsight. What would show up on a birth certificate is what they called themselves THEN.

And Kenya's Constitution of 1963 seems to show that they called themselves "The Republic of Kenya" - even if that was not what they technically were. So what would they put on their certificates?

The only way we can know is by seeing their certificates. That's what we're waiting on. That, or else the verification of this particular document.

Hmmmmm, Hillary Clinton, scheduled to leave for Kenya today. I wonder......?

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

Office of the Spokesman

Daily Appointments Schedule

Monday, August 3, 2009

10:00 a.m. Secretary Clinton holds a Secure Video Conference on Iran.

(CLOSED PRESS COVERAGE)

11:15 a.m. Secretary Clinton holds a bilateral meeting with His Excellency Nasser Judeh, Foreign Minister of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(CLOSED PRESS COVERAGE)

11:45 a.m. Secretary Clinton holds a joint press availability with His Excellency Nasser Judeh, Foreign Minister of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

(OPEN PRESS COVERAGE)

Pre-set time for cameras:10:30 a.m. from the 23rd Street entrance

Final access time for all press: 11:00 a.m. from the 23rd Street entrance

PM depart Andrews Air Force Base en route to Nairobi, Kenya

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/appt/2009appt/august/126832.htm

Confederate Yankee:

Wow! So if the official, certified to be original, Kenyan documents between 1963 and December 12, 1964 carried the words "Republic of Kenya", you would consider that a moot point?

Like so much in this mess, I have no idea what the documents carried. That's why I'm going to try to scare up a few.

Moving past the birth cert question. I still wonder why he's hiding his kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.

Whats he hiding?

This is worth repeating.

Here is the real issue everyone. I am one to say that Obama was born in Hawaii. The Africa thing is a diversion. Either way, it forces Obama to release his sealed long-form birth certificate. It was sealed because he was adopted by Soetero and became a citizen of Indonesia. THAT record is real and indisputeable people. Did he ever travel as an Indonesian to Pakisatan? Did he apply to college or law school as a foreign student? THIS is what we should be asking!

Also worth repeating, SOS Hillary Clinton is heading to Nairobi, Kenya TODAY. Bet she is carrying a sealed pouch!!!!

Obviously you don't care. But I do, because what the government of Kenya called itself in that interim period is what is being argued over.

The best I can tell, this was never "argued over" until August 2, 2009, and only after it was pointed out that the date discrepancy torpedoed yet another hoped-for bit of evidence of a conspiracy theory.

The best I can tell, this was never "argued over" until August 2, 2009, and only after it was pointed out that the date discrepancy torpedoed yet another hoped-for bit of evidence of a conspiracy theory.

It's not torpedoed until we know how Kenya identified itself on birth certicates in 1964. You jump to conclusions rather than investigate. You have an agenda.

What's feeding the conspiracy is Obama's refusal to release his LFBC and the refusal of the MSM to investigate. The kind of sloppy analysis produced here is unpersuasive.

Confederate Yankee:

As they say on Law and Order, you are arguing facts not in evidence. Unless you can produce a valid Kenyan Birth Certificate from the time in question with wording different from "Republic of Kenya", you are just speculating. Only real documents from the period will tell us what the Kenyan authorities chose to put on their documents.

I will say this: If I were the bureaucrat who had to order all the blank government documents, knowing the 1963 Kenyan Constitution contained this text:

"3. This Constitution is the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya and shall have the force of law throughout Kenya and, subject to section 47, if any other law is inconsistent with this Constitution, this Constitutional shall prevail and the other law shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void. "

I would hesitate to order a pile of documents with the word "Dominion" on them that would shortly have to be thrown away.

Further, from the very Encyclopedia Britannica article you reference:

"Kenya became fully independent on Dec. 12, 1963".

So Kenya was "fully independent" and yet "the Dominion of Kenya existed under Queen Elizabeth, with Governor General Malcolm MacDonald in charge." So what was the Kenyan Prime Minister, chopped liver? You are asserting that Kenya could not be a republic and still be a dominion. I direct you to the Dominion of Canada, which also has a constitution and is a parliamentary democracy and at the same time a constitutional monarchy with Queen Elizabeth II as head of state. Canada likewise has a governor general, who is the Queen's representative in Canada. Members of the Canadian Senate are formally appointed by the Governor General, after selection by the Prime Minister. In the recent past the use of "dominion" has ceased, and Canada refers to itself mainly as just "Canada". So I think you overestimate the scope of Governor General Malcolm MacDonald.

wow, talk about a conspiracy. why not post all of what WND is posting, including that WND also mentions the legal title of the government, as well as other historical data, that gives another side of the data you are posting. WTF? huh?

WTF are you so scared of? really...

at WND the rest of the article reads:

Last week, a counterfeit document purporting to be Obama's Kenyan birth certificate made the rounds of the Internet, but was quickly determined to be fraudulent. The new document released by Taitz bears none of the obvious traits of a hoax.

One of the issues Taitz must deal with will be the authentication of the document. Critics immediately jumped on the Feb. 17, 1964, date for the document, explaining that the "republic" of Kenya wasn't assembled until in December of that year.

Media Matters wrote, "Sorry, WorldNetDaily: Kenya wasn't a republic until Dec. 1964."

But Kenya's official independence was in 1963, and any number of labels could have been applied to government documents during that time period.

At Ameriborn Constitution News, the researcher noted that the independence process for the nation actually started taking as early as 1957, when there were the first direct elections for Africans to the Legislative Council.

"Kenya became an Independent Republic, December 12, 1963, which gives more [credibility] that this is a true document," the website stated.

The 1963 independence is corroborated by several other information sources, including the online African History.

Even the People Daily news agency cited, on Dec. 12, 2005, the "42nd independence anniversary" in Nairobi. "The country gained independence from Britain on Dec. 12, 1963," the report said.

An online copy of the Kenya Constitution, "adopted in 1963, amended in 1999," states: "CHAPTER I - THE REPUBLIC OF KENYA, Article 1, Kenya is a sovereign Republic. Article 1A, The Republic of Kenya shall be a multiparty democratic state…"

It was in November 1964 when the region voluntarily became a one-party state, according to an online source.

The region including Mombasa originally was dealt with as a separate independence movement, but it almost immediately became part of Kenya when the sultan of Zanzibar ceded the "coastal strip" to Kenya, according to sources.

Taitz told WND that the document came from an anonymous source who doesn't want his name known because "he's afraid for his life."

Taitz's motion, filed yesterday in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, requests the purported evidence of Obama's birth – both the alleged birth certificate and foreign records not yet obtained – be preserved from destruction, asks for permission to legally request documents from Kenya and seeks a subpoena for deposition from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

PLEASE POST ALL OF THE SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

cheers.

A repost of OFFICIAL KENYAN DOCUMENT many prefer to ignore.

"Publication Date 12 December 1963
Title Kenya Citizenship Act, Cap 170

OATH OF ALLEGIANCE
I....................................do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to the Republic of Kenya and that I will support and uphold the Constitution of Kenya as by law established.

SO HELP ME GOD

[link to www.unhcr.org]"

Disinformation.

The wheels are in motion (subject to the ability of Obama and his backers to stop or derail.

A snippet:

"It would appear to the undersigned counsel that either 28 U.S.C. §1781(a)(2) or 28 U.S.C. §1782(b)(2) or some combination of these statutory authorizations outlines the procedures by which to transmit letters rogatory and other requests to the proper authorities abroad in Kenya and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

For two classes of evidence at issue here, namely all requests for relevant passport materials and other documents existing within the United States of America, as well as all requests to be made through diplomatic channels to foreign tribunals, Defendant HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON is the Secretary of State of the United States of America, and accordingly, Secretary Clinton is the first and primary proper target of letters rogatory to be submitted pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §1781(a)(2).

FIRST, Plaintiffs pray that this court authorize Plaintiffs to issue a special subpoena for deposition duces tecum to Secretary HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON be cited to appear within 21 days pursuant to (or in the letter and spirit of) Rule 27 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (even though this action has been filed and served, many months will pass before the Rule 26(f) Conference can be held to plan for discovery among the parties). The purpose of Rule 27, even though designed for pre-filing discovery, is fulfilled and relevant here, in that some (above-noted) hearsay evidence exists that an individual involved in the examination of passport files at the United States Department of State relating to and involving certain 2008 Presidential candidates may have been killed in relation to such inquiry. Last year it was announced by former secretary of State Candoleeza Rice that there was tampering with the passport records of three major presidential candidates and it was investigated by the inspector general. Lt. Querl Harris was one of the suspects in passport tampering scandal. Washington post has announced that he was cooperating with the FBI and shortly thereafter he was found dead, shot in the head, sitting in his parked car. This case remains open and unresolved. Under such circumstances, “perpetuation of evidence” becomes a more and more significant and time-sensitive issue.

SECOND, Plaintiffs pray that this court will send a request for letters rogatory pursuant to 28 U.S.C.§1781(a)(2) to Defendant HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON and other relevant officers in the United States Department of State to issue and transmit letters rogatory through proper diplomatic channels to the following foreign offices of public record and vital statistics:"

From HERE

Interesting yes, that Clinton is on her way to Kenya, but far more interesting is that Obama has already been there. Think he might have already cooked the books? They love him there and would most likely not having a problem with losing or changing something.

Papa Ray
West Texas

I never thought birth of Obama will become such a big discussion topic. I am following this closely to see where this conspiracy ends. Meanwhile I have collected some good articles and sites related to Barack Obama (more than 200 sites or articles). If you are interested take a look at the below link
http://markthispage.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-do-i-get-information-about-barack.html

The document is a fake - the top line (7s. 6d.)proves it. Kenya has never used pence. The currency was the East Africa shilling and was divided into 100 cents, not pence. I still have some! The Kenyan shilling, introduced in 1964 (and still in use), also uses cents.

Talk about gullible!

The document is a fake - the top line (7s. 6d.) proves it. Kenya has never used pence. The currency was the East Africa shilling and was divided into 100 cents, not pence. I still have some! The Kenyan shilling, introduced in 1964 (and still in use), also uses cents.

Talk about gullible!

oh please....this is so moronic...

kenyanexpat posted, "the top line (7s. 6d.) proves it. Kenya has never used pence. The currency was the East Africa shilling and was divided into 100 cents, not pence. I still have some! The Kenyan shilling, introduced in 1964 (and still in use), also uses cents."

YES KENYA DID USE PENCE.

Talk about gullible! so you mean to tell me that no pence were in circulation before 1964, which was standard currency, along with pounds & shillings, in countries of the ex-British Empire? Shillings WERE DIVIDED INTO 5 NEW PENCE AND 12 OLD PENCE PRIOR TO 1971 IN EAST AFRICA! AND PENCE & CENTS IS JUST BLOODY SEMANTICS AND YOU ALSO KNOW THAT!

Kenya used the old South African shillings “s” and pence “d” until 1966 when they changed to Kenyan currency...

The British way of writing money was L1 2s 6d for One pound 2 shillings and 6 pence.

(The pound sign had a stroke or two through it)

...hence the 7s 6d on the certificate equates to 7 shillings 6 pence.

you sir are a FRAUD unless you also happen to have a 1963/64 Kenyan live birth BC.

cheers.

"Current law seems to require a voluntary renunciation of U.S. citizenship once the person reaches majority; absent such positive action, U.S. citizenship is retained."

Bingo!!! That's the current law.

Jack Okie said: "Wong has been criticized as one of the worst decisions ever made by SCOTUS"

That may very well be true in the opinion of many people. However, the only opinion that counts, from a legal stand point are SCOTUS opinions.

Often in these conversations we need to clarify the question: Are we discussing what we WANT the law to be or are we discussing what the law IS.

The Wong Kim Ark decision is the current law of the land. It's fine to disagree with a SCOTUS ruling, and it makes for interesting discussions. I disagree with many of them myself. But, that doesn't mean that my opinion, nor any other person's opinion has any weight whatsoever on the law.

It is what it is. Unless and until Wong is overruled by a future SCOTUS ruling or a future Constitutional Amendment overrules it, the Wong Kim Ark "opinion" is the only opinion that carries any legal weight on this topic. That opinion makes it perfectly clear, like it or not, that the citizenship status of one's parents have no bearing on the natural born citizen status of a person born on American Soil.

To lu-ee:

I am British and lived in Kenya as a child during the Mau Mau uprising and am rather familiar with pounds, shilling and pence and the equivalency to shillings. The currency in general circulation is irrelevant - the official currency was the East African Shilling which contained 100 cents. No Kenyan goverment document, including postage or revenue stamps EVER showed pence: it has ALWAYS been rupees and cents or shillings and cents. Pounds were officially used for a time for high demoninations, but not after about 1960, but pence has NEVER been used offically. And Kenya never used South African currency either - I suggest you brush up on your colonial Afican history.
So unless you can provide documentary evidence to the contrary, I suggest you are the fraud and moron.

This birth certificate is a fake, mark

kenyanexpat,

SO I TAKE IT YOU NEVER SAW A KENYAN LB BC BEFORE 1964 THEN? SO HOW CAN I TAKE YOU AS EVEN BEING CLOSE TO HONEST?

I HAVE THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE AS PROOF AND YOU HAVE WHAT? come on pal, put up or just rely on your name-calling and trying to show us how supposedly colonial you are.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE? SHOW SOMETHING TO DISPROVE THIS DOCUMENT, NOT YOUR SNOBBISH BULL-CRAP ATTITUDE.

YOU SAY YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT THIS CURRENCY AND YET YOU SHOW NOT ONCE OUNCE OF PROOF. I FOUND OTHER SOURCES OF INFORMATION THAT DISPROVED YOU. YOUR OWN WORDS PROVED ME CORRECT. YOU ADMITTED PENCE WAS USED BEFORE 1964. AND YET I AM SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR WORD NOT ON ANY "OFFICIAL" DOCUMENTS. SHAME ON YOU.

YOU ARE THE MORON, FRAUD AND YOU HAVE NOTHING.

SHOW ME YOUR OWN PRE-1964 BC AND I WILL BELIEVE YOU. UNTIL THEN YOU ARE JUST A PHONY IN MY EYES.

cheers & try again.

Please note: Lu-ee is screaming now. It's time for Lu-ee's medication.

lu-ee,

No need to shout (unless you feel threatened). Please re-read my post - I emphatically stated that pence has NEVER been used to denote currency/price/payment in Kenya on any official document. Repeat - NEVER, not before or after 1964. Therefore, I do not need anything else to demonstrate that the piece of paper you are touting is a fabrication (that appears to look remarkably like a doctored South Australian birth certificate from that period). Unfortunately, the person who concocted this made a basic incorrect assumption that all colonies used British currency. I am inclined to think this whole thing is a spoof that seems to have suckered you and others into grasping onto something you so desperately want to be true.

Why not you find real sources of information rather than regurgitating nonsense from right wing web sites. The Library of Congress has copies of most major Kenyan newspapers from the early 1960's. I suggest you take some time to visit and review the 1963/1964 editions (including goverment notices) and see if you can find anything that uses pence.

If Obama were born in Kenya (though Mombasa was in Zanzibar in 1961), it is extremely likely that his birth would have been registered with the US Consul as was common practise for anyone with foreign parentage during colonial times. This was almost certainly not done.

Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant - a bit of actual research will show what I am stating to be self evident.

ahh, the "dude" troll shows up again and wades into the light after his side has been gettings its can kicked. jump in fool, the water is warm.

I see dud your side is really "performing well" lately. Have anything "new" to add to the debate? hows your carpal tunnel syndrome going? If you get commie health-care I am sure you will get all the pain-killers you need.

BTW, liberal feet are also getting mighty big lately. Surprised they can even fit into regular-size shoes. Even Reid has gotten the "birth issue" put into the Congressional Record. comeuppance is a-coming for the liberals.

cheers dud...try again with some real IDEAS.

lu-ee,

You really have nothing but hyperbole and insults don't you? Face it, you simply cannot deal with the fact that an uppity black got elected by a majority of all Americans - including whites. Welcome to the 21st century!

See my final update. This fake BC was almost certainly photoshopped from the Australian BC of one David Jeffery Bomford.

Or was Bomford in on the coverup as well?

kenyanexpat ,

why dont YOU post some information? I have seen a 1964 Kenyan BC. You seemed to NOT have seen any.

You are "assuming", for the exact same reason you condemn the "forger" of the Kenyan BC.

You assume that a REAL 1964 Kenyan BC is set up like another British Commonwealth BC, yet you say the "forgery" is based of a South Australian BC, which IS ALSO PART OF THE BRITISH COMMONWEALTH. SO WHICH IS IT?

I WRITE IN LARGE LETTERS BECAUSE I AM DEALING WITH DENSE INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT WANT TO SEE THINGS IN BLACK & WHITE, but in gray.

Oh and I dont feel threatened.

I believe you and those who are on Obama's side in this issue feel threatened because it MIGHT BE TRUE. You are acting on the exact same reasons & emotions that caused him to be falsely elected & NOT properly investigated: YOU FEEL SORRY FOR HIM.

OH f'n well. your problem not mine.

...so much for this supposed presidency, "famously" built on "FULL DISCLOSURE".

...ya know what is so gosh-darn awful & frustrating about this mess? I have seen Sen. John McCain's live BC...and he LOST THE ELECTION.

go f'n figure.

...here is a good book on early 20th century Kenya and it discusses its currency. It doesnt talk about the cost of govt. docs, but it does talk about currency up til 1923 in Kenya, and pence is used in the context of goods purchased.

Why pence wouldnt be used on newspapers or gov docs seems a bit strange to me, especially since it was so widely in circulation.

YOU do a search in the book in the link I have sent you, and see how pence is mentioned, and then you try to still say it wasnt used in an "official" capacity by the government. And yet it was used to determine the Kenya's currency strength as well as used by other British Empire inhabitants, visitors, or newly arrived immigrants?

Struggle for Kenya: The Loss and Reassertion of Imperial Initiative, 1912-1923 by Robert M. Maxon (who is renowned for his research on Kenya. YOU LOOK HIM UP.)

http://books.google.com/books?id=BqWshUWJBikC&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=Indian+rupee+had+been+valued+at+one+shilling+and+four+pence+kenyan&source=bl&ots=dXtOqwb6A4&sig=toChKlxNVTBMfE9RVH04KUx8MDI&hl=en&ei=qax3SpvRBcPHtgfHhdiWCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#

NOW I HAVE POSTED MY RESEARCH WHY DONT YOU POST YOURS???

cheers mate.

....as far as your last post, no I dont post hyperbole. I post FACTS.

...you only base your posts on fantasy and not reality.

Sadly, it is the Oba-messiah and YOU who are the racists.

Its Oba-messiah who went to a preacher who preached hatred against the jews & against european-americans. It was Oba-messiah who was friends wih a domestic terrorist, whose wife bombed innocent civilians & law-enforcement.

IT WAS THE PRIESTS & SISTERS OF MY RELIGION WHO STRUGGLED FOR THE FREEDOM & COMPLETE EDUCATION OF AFRICAN AMERICANS, AND MARCHED WITH THEM DOWN SOUTH & AT NOTRE DAME FOR FULL CIVIL RIGHTS, AND IT WAS KENNEDY WHO DIED WORKING FOR THEIR FULL FREEDOMS, AND IT WAS YOU, YOU BLOODY COLONIAL BASTARD WHO TREATED THE AFRICANS LIKE ANIMALS. I SEE YOU HAVE DEFENDED THIS IMPOSTER, THIS FALSE PROPHET, BECAUSE YOU SUFFER FROM COLONIAL GUILT.

YOUR SIN NOT MINE.

now read my last email and YOU POST SOME BACK-UP.

As of right now, YOU ARE STILL A FRAUD AND RACIST IN MY BOOK.

...and your use of the term "uppity" is pathetically laughable. I see you are looking at your own conscience & actions to come up with that line. How originally of you after coming on this thread as if we all should bow to you because you are a supposed "expat".

"cheers mate"

PS ya know confederate yankee, why dont you stop exposing the actual forgery and try to "debunk" the real Kenyan live birth BC, which no one has been able to do, and was submitted to a federal court for scrutiny?

This lawyer isnt just posting on the internet some photo-shopped piece of garbage but submitting for FULL legal review this piece of evidence, in full VIEW of the PUBLIC & the GOVERNMENT.

Thats more than what can be said about anyone seeing the Hawaiian long form live birth BC of this imposter, the Oba-messiah & the actions of the fraudulent commie shadow government he has fabricated.

At least McCain showed his long form live birth BC when he was questioned about it during the '08 election.

ya know what I mean champ?

cheers

PS how come Conf Yank when one goes to the " 'certified copy of registration of birth' from Australia" it no longer exists?

hmmm?

how do we know that the "de-bunker" isnt creating a "forged forgery" to cast doubt on the real Kenyan BC?

just saying. photo-shopping can cut both ways.

careful what you wish for folks. you may be surprised what you find.

cheers

lu-ee,

Firstly, your reference is from 1923!!! Secondly, did you actually read the Maxon book you quote - or at least the part that is visible on amazon.com? It does absolutely nothing to contradict my statements - in fact it supports them. Kenya went from rupees & cents to (briefly) florins & cents and finally to shillings & cents which remains the status quo. Sterling was never the official currency and never "widely in circulation" as you claim. The reference to sterling in the excerpt you mention deals with a proposal to introduce sterling - this was never enacted.

For your information, in the early 20th century, Sterling was used as world currency standard just as the US dollar has been in recent years.

What reference do you cite for your previous assertion that South Africa currency was ever used?

Want a concise official history on Kenyan currency? Try their central bank: http://www.centralbank.go.ke/Currency/CurrencyHistory.aspx

You are correct in one respect - I "DO NOT WANT TO SEE THINGS IN BLACK AND WHITE". I am not a racist.

You are an un-American anachronism and are living the history that will prove it. I do not expect to change your mind one iota - fortunately the majority of the population is more sensible. I have conservative Republican friends who detest Obama, but they all think you are part of the lunatic fringe and that the GOP is doomed unless it can rid itself of your ilk and return to intellectual honesty and solid policy based arguments. Oh, and people like Palin scare the beejesus out of them too!

lu-ee,

Bloody Colonial Bastard here - I like that. Coming from you it is a badge of honour!
You seem unduly upset that all someone who lived there a long time ago did was point out that no Kenyan goverment document would ever have used shillings and pence when shillings and cents was the only official currency. Whoever produced this birth certificate overlooked a fact that is easily verifiable with a bit of research.
But since it undermines your nirvana, you go a bit spare!

So the Birthers have no solid evidence to support their conspiracy theories so now they're fabricating evidence? Two obvious fake birth certificates pop up in the past couple of days made in Photoshop by people too stupid to open up an encyclopedia. This will help the looney cause.

The devil is in the details people! If you're going to try to smear someone with these absurd lies, at least have the intelligence to research your subject so you don't inadvertently smear yourselves by looking like total paranoid buffoons.

SMOKING GUN ALERT: 9/11 Truther produces stick of dynamite found at ground zero with state seal on it from 2001 from the city of New Amsterdam. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Barrack Obama flew all the planes on the morning of 9/11 AND he killed Elvis.

'sigh' here we go.

kenyanexpat,

why are you such a liar as well as a racist colonialist? really.

were you born this way or did you have an accident when young?

I posted facts and you just spout off.

I will not take your word for anything.

You show NOTHING.

THE BC IS STILL NOT "DEBUNKED."

I AM UPSET AT Y-O-U.

I gave you the link for GOOGLE BOOKS NOT AMAZON.COM YOU PATHETIC RACIST LIAR!

IT ALLOWS YOU TO SEARCH THE BOOK BY TYPING "PENCE" IN THE KEY WORD SEARCH.

PENCE IS DISCUSSED ON PAGES 182, 201, 205, and 241.

THERE IS A HISTORY OF PENCE BEING USED IN KENYA UP UNTIL THE 1960S!

here LIAR, HERE IT IS AGAIN:

http://books.google.com/books?id=BqWshUWJBikC&pg=PA182&lpg=PA182&dq=Indian+rupee+had+been+valued+at+one+shilling+and+four+pence+kenyan&source=bl&

...and this book was published in 1993 and is of the years 1919-1923, as well as discussing past & future histories for context.

WHAT IS SO F'N WRONG WITH THAT? DID YOU SEARCH OR READ ANY OF IT? BY YOUR COMMENTS I THINK NOT!

THE YEARS 1919-1923 ARE KEY TO WHAT CAME AFTERWARDS!

The rest of the century is based off of the economic decisions of that era. WHY DONT YOU PROVE ME OTHERWISE? HMM? WHY DONT YOU?!

Also your link is for currency TODAY IN KENYA...

....NOT IN THE LATE 1950S & EARLY 1960S, which is the BLOODY ERA WE ARE DISCUSSING, ISNT IT?!!!

WTF?

YOU ARE SO FULL OF LIES.

KEY SENTENCE(S) LIAR:

NAIL #1: "A central body known as the East African Currency Board was then established to oversee the issuance of currency in the region."

NAIL #2: "Denominations have progressively changed since then. CURRENT (MY BLOODY F'N EMPHASIS) denominations of banknotes and coins in circulation are as follows:- Coins – 5cent, 10 cent, 50 cent, 1 shilling, 5 shilling, 10 shilling, 20 shilling and 40 shilling Notes – 50 shilling, 100 shilling, 200 shilling, 500 shilling and 1,000 shilling. More details on the History of Kenyan Currency can be found by contacting the Bank."

NAIL #3: "Denominations have progressively changed since then."

NAIL #4: "Current denominations of banknotes and coins in circulation are..."

...AND PENCE WAS ALSO A STANDARD OF CURRENCY BEFORE 1966. YOUR LINK PROVES NOTHING EXCEPT WHAT IS BEING USED "NOW."

MY BOOK QUOTES SHOW THAT PENCE WAS ALSO USED IN CIRCULATION IN KENYA PRIOR TO 1966.

..AND FROM WIKI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Currency_Board

NAIL #5: "East African Currency Board
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The East African Currency Board (EACB) supplied and oversaw the currency of British colonies in East Africa from 1919 to 1966. It was established after Britain took control of mainland Tanzania from Germany at the end of World War I, and originally oversaw the territories of Uganda, Kenya, and Tanzania (excluding Zanzibar). Zanibar joined the currency area in 1936. For most of its existence, its main function was to maintain the local shilling at par with the shilling in the United Kingdom. This was done by ensuring that the local currency was adequately backed by sterling securities. It operated out of premises at 4 Millbank, London SW1. The Board was replaced by the independent central banks of Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania in 1966."

NAIL #6: "The East African Currency Board (EACB) supplied and oversaw the currency of British colonies in East Africa from 1919 to 1966."

LUCKY NAIL #7: KEY PHRASES BUSTER: "This was done by ensuring that the local currency was adequately backed by sterling securities." i.e. Sterling i.e. shillings, PENCE! ...as stated in my book by MAXON ON THE PAGES I PROVIDED!

sooooo....would you like a wooden or metal coffin? or do you prefer cremation, since you are from a 20th century brit colony??? WE AIM TO P-L-E-A-S-E buster. ;)

AND YES, THIS, AS WELL AS OTHER ISSUES, CAN BE READ AS EITHER "BLACK OR WHITE" I.E. "CUT & DRY."

...BUT SINCE YOU WERE BRED IN AN BACKWARDS-ASS & DISCRIMINATORY COLONY, I AM SORRY YOU CAN ONLY UNDERSTAND THAT PHRASE IN TERMS OF "THE COLOR OF A HUMAN BEINGS SKIN."

...if you only understanding people by the color of their skin, THATS YOUR PROBLEM & SIN NOT MINE.

so sad for you "mate."

"cheers"

I feel embrarrased to rebuttal a post by a person going by the moniker: "Lipiwitz," so I will just say this:

"either put up or shut up" pal.

NOBODY has debunked the copy shown on WND.

NOBODY.

cheers "mate."

Oh lu-ee...you sad, sorry person you. It's past funny and now sympathetic.

The birth certificate number is 47-O44 as in the 47 year old, 44th President. That alone should be a dead giveaway to us smart folk. Ya got a lot of nails but aren't building anything solid buddy. But hey, bright shiny baubles keep you busy.

"...jokers to the left of me..jokers to the right..."

Two can play this game Lipi.

now...lets start with a friendly opening sentence: "oh yeah I am sure you are 100% correct Lipi."

...and yet the Oba-messiah is anointed "48" today.

not too good of timing if this crypto-forger released this doc so close to the One's August 4 b-day. No?

...so how about the "0" is the 47-044? does that stand for:

"0-bama" ???

where do you guys get this stuff? ...from a box of cereal maybe? i suppose next you are going to point out all of the "hidden meaning" on a dollar bill. oi vey...

NEXT!

oh...i almost forgot..."cheers" sport!

;)

The "O" stands for Dr. Orly. The looney tune foreign woman from California who produced this document a couple of days ago. Lets see her long form, eh?

It's not a game Lu-ee. It's just endless entertainment.

There exists a mental disorder, I forget the technical term that describes it, where people, when presented with evidence contrary to their preconceived notion of reality (even when their notion is not in fact reality), simply ignore the evidence and retreat even further into their state of non-reality.

Such seems to be the case with lu-ee. Note the screaming, name calling, etc.

Lipiwitz has it nailed.........endless entertainment when debating someone like lu-ee who is oblivious to the obvious. Unfortunately, it isn't what most folks would consider to be genuine political discourse.

It's a very interesting observation of how the human mind functions in some people. Sad, but true.

lu-ee,

Pg. 182: is simply talking about exchange rates and confirms that the local currency was rupees and cents.

Pg. 241: Northey is reporting back to his masters in London and explaining prices in currency terms that are familiar to the people back home.

Pg. 201: Again, the reference to pence is the exchange rates to the florin.

Pg. 205: As I mentioned previously, there was a proposal (the "currency scheme" referred to) to replace local currency with sterling. It was rejected and the compromise was adjusting the florin exchange rate (discussed on pg. 201). Ex pats were always concerned about exchange rates. If they were using sterling on a day to day basis, there would never have been any issue. It is precisely because local currency had to be used inside the country that exchange rates were a major issue for the colonial administration.

Did you actually read the entire page of the Bank of Kenya's currency history before quoting from the last part that deals with post-1964?

Here are some coin collector links showing Kenya currency:

http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/Eafrica.php (the currency in use at the time in question).
http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/Kenya.php

Sterling was never legal tender inside Kenya any time during its history, and if we had tried to pay the local workers in UK shillings and pence, there would have been a riot. Likewise, I would have been somewhat disappointed if my weekly pocket money had been given to me in a form that I could not easily purchase gobstoppers with! Governments do not insert someone elses currency on their official documents.

As far as you nails are concerned, I fear they are in your coffin since not one of them refutes my assertion in any way, shape or form.

Either you have a reading comprehension problem or are simply pig ignorant. Regardless, you are a simple shill for the birthers. Anyone following this thread can look up their own references and judge for themselves.

lu-ee:

BTW: Colonies such as Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all used pounds, shillings and pence as their local currency at some stage. However, even though they generally remained at par with sterling, the currency was locally issued. British notes or coins were not local legal tender in any of these in the post WWII era.
The creators of this birth certificate obviously made a very simply mistake - quite common unless you actually experienced the colonies.

lu-ee:

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2646009.htm

Of course, I suppose the Austrialians are also Obamabots?

(lu-ee: "Drat, foiled again! Methinks I should shout a bit louder until these Obamanations see things my way.")

kenyanexpat,

TO REPOST: BECAUSE I AM RIGHT AND YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG:

"East African Currency Board
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

"The East African Currency Board (EACB) supplied and oversaw the currency of British colonies in East Africa from 1919 to 1966. It was established after Britain took control of mainland Tanzania from Germany at the end of World War I, and originally oversaw the territories of Uganda, Kenya, and Tanzania (excluding Zanzibar). Zanibar joined the currency area in 1936. For most of its existence, its main function was to maintain the local shilling at par with the shilling in the United Kingdom. This was done by ensuring that the local currency was adequately backed by sterling securities. It operated out of premises at 4 Millbank, London SW1. The Board was replaced by the independent central banks of Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania in 1966."

NAIL #6: "The East African Currency Board (EACB) supplied and oversaw the currency of British colonies in East Africa from 1919 to 1966."

LUCKY NAIL #7: KEY PHRASES BUSTER: "This was done by ensuring that the local currency was adequately backed by sterling securities." i.e. Sterling i.e. shillings, PENCE! ...as stated in my book by MAXON ON THE PAGES I PROVIDED!

PENCE WAS USED IN KENYA. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE SELECTIVE MEMORY.

...and yet you still havent produced a KENYAN birth certificate from a country YOU SUPPOSEDLY LIVED IN.

Oh and if you are going to "quote me" why not try something i really said, such as "you are a fraud & a racist."

...now close your coffin and stay dead. ya damn zombie...and move over to make room for two more liberal commie bastard zombies, the insane #1 and crazy #2, dud and Lips_switch.

"cheers mate."

PS

kenyanexpat wrote:
"Of course, I suppose the Austrialians are also Obamabots?"

Yes they are.

Lips_switch (aka "Lipiwitz") wrote:
"It's not a game Lu-ee. It's just endless entertainment."

yes, its an "entertaining game" and the winner holds the stake of the world, principly the USA, in the veracity of his answers. To me its deadly serious, just like it is for YOUR LEADER, THE ONE, THE ANOINTED, THE OBA-MESSIAH.

dud (aka "dude")wrote:
"Such seems to be the case with lu-ee. Note the screaming, name calling, etc. Lipiwitz has it nailed.........endless entertainment when debating someone like lu-ee who is oblivious to the obvious. Unfortunately, it isn't what most folks would consider to be genuine political discourse."

...and yet dud takes part in disingenuous political discourse, name-calling & race-baiting, as well as fantasy political movements such as marxism & supporting the usurper, the Oba-messiah.

sounds to me that dud is a CLASSIC CASE OF PERSON WHO IS A LEGEND...IN HIS OWN MIND. Dud is more like "the pot calling the kettle hot" then the ELITE political pundit HE THINKS HE IS.

"cheers" liars, con-artists, racists, and liberals. As we debate, it is another bad week for the left-wing commie liberals, as their "supposed" presidential leader goes down in the polls ever further.

xoxoxoxoxo

lu-ee:

You keep regurgitating the same thing which does nothing to invalidate my point at all! Read the context instead of selectively picking up on phrases that appear to support you. The entire British empire used sterling securities to back up their local currencies. Like the gold standard that Britain drifted in and out of during the 20th century. This has nothing to do with currency in use in any part of the commonwealth. The EACB only ever issued East African shilling ands cents. I never claimed to have been born in Kenya - I was not. I merely point out that, despite your rantings to the contrary, you will never find an offical Kenyan document that used pence as the fee.

You obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about - as demonstrated by your reliance on a misreading of both Maxon and wikipedia (which also incorrectly refers to Tanzania. It was the Mandated Territory of Tanganyika, formerly German East Africa, back then)!

Strange how us rascists are the ones supporting the Black guy and you are the one desperately clutching at any straw to delegitimize him. You are a pathetic traitor to this great country. If "liberal" is the epithet to describe someone who does not share your values, then I am sure many of us are happy to be liberals.

oh well. the honeymoon is officially over AND may the divorce go on until this fraud is gone:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=akA7XABFTuSs

ya know extint_kenyan (AKA kenyanexpat), at least I dont vote for someone based on a guilty liberal conscience, such as yours, and the color of someone's skin, such as if a presidential candidate is black.

I vote based on ideas & associations.

The Oba-messiah has been associated with communists & radicals all his life.

The Oba-messiah's ideas are in line with communism & radicalism. These communists & radicalis are of all colors & creeds.

Therefore, no matter if the Oba-messiah was white, browm, or black, he would never get my vote...even if he was a descendent of good 'ol Georgie Washington.

That is more than i can say what motivates your brand of racism, fraud, & bigotry.

"cheers" fool. enjoy the down-fall of your god, the Oba-messiah. I for one am over-joyed to see it happening.

...inch by inch the usurper falls by a thousand cuts, along with his rabid & blind followers.

Lu-ee, Interesting that you mention George Washington. He and his contemporaries were a bunch of radicals, to be sure. In fact, they were so radical that they formed a new nation. Yes, the United States of America was formed by radicals.

lu-ee:

So having lost the fake birth certificate debate, you are now left with nothing but name calling?

I too vote based on ideas and associations. I am proud to be a radical and yes, I have consorted with commies, anarchists, muslims, jews, christians, criminals, Republicans and general scumbags. This has allowed me to make an educated decision as to who I associate with. As pointed out by Dude, if it were not for radicals, the USA would not exist. In fact, without radicals, humans would still be living in the dark ages - though somehow through this social evolution you remain at the bottom of the food chain. Oh right, you probably don't believe in evolution either - which can only mean your god willed you there (probably for some misdemeanor in a previous incarnation).

This country overwhelmingly elected Obama as its leader, for better or for worse. The fact that you cannot accept the will of the majority of the people who bothered to vote says a tremendous amount about your personal honesty, morality, character and patriotism.

Hey, look on the bright side - Obama may well be the antichrist. That means the rapture is much closer - isn't that what y'all are waiting for? Good fortune for us too - we'll be rid of you! Purgatory will be a peaceful change.

extint_kenyan,

key lie you posted is the term "overwhelmingly".

you are definitely getting desperate now, because the more I disbelieve & speak out against you & your beloved tyrant, the more hyperbole you are using. how f*kin well. your problem NOT MINE.

we shall see. the jury is still out on if he is even president or not.

"rapture" ? what are you talking about? I am not an evangelical you dope.

know your enemy loser. I gave away my background 10 posts ago. try again.

also, as I said in another thread. A patriotic democrat represenative from Hawaii is introducing legislation into Congress, also calling on the Oba-messiah, Your Commie Savior, to turn over all documents proving his citizenship & birth.

oh f*kin well. I guess everyone is concerned now.

Your just too radical to even give two sh*ts..

but others do. again, your loss.

cheers.

now for Dud,

as far as GW being a radical, prove it? democracy in the USA was based on hundreds of years of greco-roman and western european politcal evolution. It took a war pushed on the colonial inhabitants because of injustice & murder.

Your beloved current crop of 21 century liberal commie democrat politicians are tyrants who base their thug rule on lies, fraud, corruption, and erroding the Bill of Rights & Declar. of Independence. Those same documents were founded upon the core principles of the British Magna Carta. ya know?

As we speak the tyrant, and his Star Chamber, is collecting data on dissenters to his way of thought, and sending out purple shirts to beat those who also disagree with their thinking. Just dont think GW would agree with that.

you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, but your side are radicals anyway. They work on chaos, and rules mean nothing, just how to bend & break those rules.

nice mafia you in bed with.

cheers. or more like "screams"