August 07, 2009

Truth Does Not Matter In The Health Care "Debate"

I'm not sure there are too many places you can turn this morning without hearing about the confrontations that have broken out at several "town hall" meetings about health care reform yesterday.

An Obama supporter brazenly stepped forth to rip the sign out of a protester's hands in Denver.

Six people were arrested at the St. Louis event. A black man there was called a racial slur and assaulted severely enough by the mob that he required treatment in the emergency room at St. John's Mercy Medical Center. The injured man, Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative from St. Louis, was handing out Gadsden flags to the crowd when attacked.

At a similar event in Tampa, organizers apparently assaulted protesters in order to try to close the doors to a meeting there that the protesters were drowning out with chants. There were no arrests but the assault was captured on amateur video, and a series of photos shows a female supporter of Obamacare pushing the face of a protester. The woman and her husband has been tentatively identified as officers in a local Democratic organization.

In these events, organized union labor (SEIU) appears to have been brought in by Democratic organizers to fill the halls with supporters to provide the appearance of local support for the health care bill that liberal Democrats are attempting to force through the House of Representatives. In both events, conservative protesters that have been assaulted, apparently without provocation. Perhaps the unions were there to provide "muscle" as well.

And yet if you look to the media or the blogosphere or the government itself, you see a very well-coordinated message going out that "right wing mobs" are responsible for opposing a bill that a simple majority of the country opposes as the wrong solution to the problem.

There has always been gamesmanship, bias, and even flat-out lying in American politics, but I've been simply amazed at the messaging orchestration between the media, left-wing activist groups, liberal bloggers, and senior Democratic Party politicians all the way up to and including the Senate Majority Leader, Speaker of the House, and the President of the United States himself.

These socialists—let's call them what they are—are pushing hard for a version of health reform that a majority of Americans simple do not want. They are pushing for a complete gutting of our health care system, even though 74-percent of us rate our care as "good" or "excellent." They are pushing a plan that 50-percent of Americans believe will lead to a decline in the quality of their coverage, and that 78-percent know will lead to higher taxes on the middle class.

Democrats in Congress can pass this legislation without a single Republican vote, just as they did the stimulus bill. They hold a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the Senate, and have a President itching to sign the nationalization of health care into law.

But the simple truth of the matter is that conservative and moderate Blue Dog Democrats know the stench of a rotten bill when they smell it. It is Blue Dog Democrats that have joined independents and Republicans in opposing a plan that the majority of the country does not expect to benefit anyone other than those who want to increase the size of government, and to insert the power of the government even further into your life.

The radical left wing of the Democratic Party, their activist groups and their adoring co-conspirators in the media seem to be doing everything in their power to demonize and shout down the majority of Americans unhappy with their scheming. They've resorted to slander. They've resorted to libel. They've lied unabashedly and outrageously. And now it seems they've resorted to physical thuggery in an attempt to silence their opposition.

I do not pretend to know how this is going to end, but the course that they are charting and precedent they are setting is not one that will likely end well.

Posted by Confederate Yankee at August 7, 2009 10:30 AM

Historically, it's liberals who are known for violence - not conservatives. Case in point - I doubt that Bill Ayers was a Republican.

Posted by: Kathy at August 7, 2009 11:33 AM

I do not pretend to know how this is going to end, but the course that they are charting and precedent they are setting is not one that will likely end well.

This is getting very scary. What concerns me most is the possibility that this is actually the plan. By escalating the rhetoric and calling out the union thugs, it's almost as if this administration wants this to blow up. Is a declaration of martial law in our future?

Posted by: Diogenes online at August 7, 2009 11:37 AM

Lets all go to the vineyard during obongos vacation. Dressed as mobsters

Posted by: Mark Gibbons at August 7, 2009 11:45 AM

American Freedom of Speech is DEAD. How sad for America that people have to be outraged to get any voice at all, then be labeled "Fishy" by their own representatives. We are back in the days of black listing. Dare you disagree with the President?

Posted by: s jean at August 7, 2009 11:56 AM

Socialist? NOT. Barack Husein Obama's rhetoric and particularly his actions point clearly towards FASCISM; nationalization of heavy industry, the financial sector and soon-to-be healthcare system. Read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" to better understand this poser's true goals.

Posted by: Ron at August 7, 2009 11:56 AM

Do not be afraid. Go and protest. Speak up. But stay in control. Let them be thuggish. Bring your video cameras. The people will see the truth. (they saw the truth in Gatesgate did they not?)

Posted by: Lily at August 7, 2009 12:03 PM

These protests were started by the conservative movement. Any angry response to an angry protest is just that... angry. Tim McVeigh was a right wing terrorist who killed many people. So it exists on both sides... stop being dumb and partisan. The world has enough problems without you adding to it. And by the way... even the leaders of your own glorious movement have denounced the birther questions... so get real, get a clue and stop being a part of the problem.

Posted by: Don't be dumb at August 7, 2009 12:07 PM

This health care "debate" is descending into chaos. Both political parties have an equal share in the blame game.

President Obama, my President and yours,and his allies in Congress, have done a very poor job of communicating the details of their proposals to the American People. I'm extremely disappointed in the way that they've handled this issue, to date.

Likewise, the Republicans and their allies in the for profit health care industry have done a disservice to the American People with their own hot air machine.

So, what we have before us now is not any kind of informed civil debate or discussion. We simply have angry mobs on both sides of the issue shouting at each other.

Health care reform IS going to occur in our nation. There are plenty of intelligent people in America who don't have a vested financial interest in the current unsustainable American Health Care Industry. We need civil meetings of minds, of everyday citizens, across this country to put forth and to discuss proposals. We need to hear from intelligent people in the business community and from the working class. We need to hear from people who have the best health care available in America at their disposal. Likewise, we need to hear from people who have been bankrupted because they cannot afford to pay their health care bills.

We also need the input of people who are in the Health Care Industry, from the bottom to the top.

We should also hear from both the providers and the citizens of other nations who currently have systems that incorporate public/private sector health care.

We need to get this right. It's not going to be perfect in the beginning. Not everyone is going to be pleased, regardless of what happens.

People on both sides of the issue can and do portray the other side as villains. What we've seen thus far are sound bites, politically charged accusations and outright lies from leaders on both sides of the issue.

Ask senior citizens, recipients of medicare, what THEY think and ask for their input.

In these proposed meetings, there need to be strict rules of order. And, there needs to be accountability.

Posted by: Dude at August 7, 2009 12:48 PM

This will not end well. Stay strong and continue to give 'em hell.

Posted by: THIRDWAVEDAVE at August 7, 2009 12:52 PM

It's so good to see how President Obama has brought us all together ... a national "Kumbaya" moment.

Everybody sing ...

Posted by: Neo at August 7, 2009 01:01 PM

Frankly the comments posted above reflect the problem. We have a 1,ooo page bill that almost no one has read and yet we citizens are almost honor bound to support it because others have deemed it as necessary.Further, there are elements of the bill such as all financial information given to the government,allocated care to seniors and including illegals which have increased the stress. It would also be a bit more honest if the people advocating care for themeselves would advocate helping pay for it also. To gloss over these issues in the guise of "improvement" is disenginuous and smacks of elitism.

Posted by: Vincent at August 7, 2009 01:17 PM

To gloss over these issues in the guise of "improvement" is disenginuous and smacks of elitism.

Reeks of elitism would be more accurate...

Posted by: Diogenes online at August 7, 2009 01:25 PM

Actually, Ron, Fascists WERE the socialist party in Germany. So this makes perfect sense.

Posted by: Marianne7 at August 7, 2009 01:39 PM

even the leaders of your own glorious movement have denounced the birther questions

Ah, good ol' leftists: when you aren't begging the question, or engaging in ad hominem, a bit of non-sequitur carries the day.

But following on your 'logic' displayed here, I don't see any of the leaders of your "glorious movement" denouncing the thuggery at these events, period. Do not sit here and try to equate people angry with a policy prescription to people that would shut down those people with violence, you sycophantic asshole.

Posted by: ECM at August 7, 2009 01:43 PM


Stop defending your commie party and treating the conservatives as equal in fault.

There are democrats & independents who are also complaining about this MYSTERY PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

This tyrant and his commie party OWN THE FAULT.

It is YOUR tyrant and his Gestapo party members, in purple shirts, provding the MUSCLE.

It is your purple shirt thugs putting people in the HOSPITAL.

It is your tyrant calling for THE CREATION OF A SECRET CITIZEN POLICE TO INFORM ON THOSE WHO SPEAK OUT & establishing a permanent database on the "dissidents."

Really, will you or one of the other liberal operatives on this blog, please show PROOF that those conservative speaking out at these townhall "meetings" are backed by medical insurance companies or republican political organizations?

can you please do that? cant you try to show some truth to THE LIE? huh?

this tyrant posts NO INFORMATION ABOUT HIS PLAN. The liberal members of congress DO NOT EVEN READ IT.





Have you heard at all about the butchers in this administration who support population control & survival of those deemed by the government as fit?

They favor judging who is worthy for treatment or medication, and who is not.





The AFL-CIO is now offering MUSCLE to the tyrant.

The tyrant is meeting behind closed doors with democrat members, because the members are SCARED AND DONT KNOW WHAT TO SAY. THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT WHAT THEY ARE SELLING...AND THE SAME PEOPLE ARE MAD AS H+LL.



enjoy the outcome. it will surely not be go over as a dud.

those who are being beaten up are not at fault. they are the victims. they are victims because they are exercising their 1st amendment rights. and the tyrant is upset that the masses do not want what he wants. period.

:( mad & sad

Posted by: lu-ee at August 7, 2009 01:46 PM

Thanks to our self-hating fellow Americans, known as liberal Democrats, we are stuck with an anti-American Mooslim, who's sperm donor father was a mooslim communist official with the Kenyan government in the 1960s. Who's step-father was a mooslim from Indonesia. Who was mentored by Frank Davis Marshall in Hawaii, a radical black American communist. Who's preacher was for 20 years, the nut-case, black liberation theology (what a laugh!) Rev. Wright. Who's friends are terrorists like Bill Ayers and Palestinian jihadis. Not to forget to mention, Screwy Louie Farahkan. All live in the same Chicago neighborhood.

We are stuck with a Black Panther in a business suit, who uses the techniques of Chavez, Castro and the rest to pacify the public.

Obama is a foreigner; whether or not he is foreign born aside, the point is he is a foreigner in the sense of worldview, his philosophy. He is anti-American and un-American.

This won't end well. We are in for "turbulent times" in the near future.

Posted by: rssg at August 7, 2009 01:59 PM

Please, everyone, stop the name calling and stick to facts. Both sides need to use facts, not name calling. For instance, it is a fact that medicare was a good idea, gone bad by mismanagment, misuse and abuse, which the current and past adminiatrations seem incapable of stopping. It is a fact that if the current bill is signed into law it will be the same way, a seemingly good idea gone bad. It will be filled with waste, and mismanagment and poor care. It is a fact that doctors charge more because they pay huge insurance premiums to protect themselves from unjustified lawsuits. It is also a fact that doctors make mistakes. It is also a fact that lawyers winning lawsuits get way too much monwy and sometimes the victim does too. Many doctors have to double fees to pay for insurance and yet no provision in the bill helps take care of this problem. It is also a fact that the president who acknowledges that he has not read the bill, insists that it must be passed. Let me add one thing that is not a fact, but a question. If your car needed a breakjob costing $600, would it make sense to have it destroyed, and buy a new one? Let us identify the problems with healthcare and fix THEM. lastly, if the democrats insist on this health care reform bill, make a provision that it is so good that they will all drop their current insurance and health car and replace it with what is being offered. And that unions will not be opted out.

Posted by: Bruce at August 7, 2009 02:27 PM

If the government wants to reduce healthcare expenditures, all that is needed is to:

Reduce all immigration (legal and illegal) for 5-10 years. That alone will greatly reduce healthcare costs.

Killing the unborn and euthanasia for the elderly is no solution.

Government doesn't work. What part of that do democrats and squishy moderate republicans fail to understand? You fools actually believe a bunch of lawyer/politicians, most of whom never worked a day in their lives', especially Barry al Hussein, is going to "fix" something?

Healthcare doesn't need "fixing". Our system is so good, many others around the world come here for treatment.

1) Create Health Savings Accounts - HSA's.
2) Give large tax deductions for building HSAs.
3) Deport illegal aliens, who consume big amounts of free healthcare and education.
4) Tell al Hussein, Botox Pelosi, the Chinless Harry Reid, Teddy "the swimmer" Kennedy, etc. to GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR LIVES!

Posted by: brucet at August 7, 2009 02:44 PM

No to "Universal" Anything......

As a liberty minded conservative, I am against mandatory, 100% universal anything.

Furthermore, 100% of Americans have access to healthcare right now - it's called the Emergency Room.

Almost 90% of Americans have health insurance and 85% are satisfied with their health insurance.

Of the 45 million or so without insurance:

About 10 million already qualify for govt. health insurance programs.

About 15 million make more than 75k / year. They can afford it but choose not to buy it.

About 10-15 million are not Americans - they are illegal aliens, using fake or stolen ID's, committing social security fraud and getting free healthcare and education.

The Big Eared Chimp in Chief is now at a 49% approval rating. His poll numbers have sunk faster than ANY OTHER PRESIDENT IN MODERN TIMES.

Unemployment is rising.

We are in a no-growth economic policies because the Chimp doesn't want real growth, he wants A CENTRALLY PLANNED ECONOMY, where only certain companies and industries, that meet with his whacked out enviromental glo-baloney nonsense, are the firms that succeed.

Please Chimp. Please Congress. Pass government run healthcare, I'm pleading with you! I can't wait for the backlash to begin!

Posted by: rssg at August 7, 2009 02:48 PM

i think people who want to change the entire health care system in this country, go live in either canada, italy, or the uk for one year.

the system is not that bad to cause such a revolution. the democrats are willing to ruin it for everyone else in order to cover the uninsured. THAT IS WRONG. as it is noone can be refused treatment.

so instead of dealing with an insurance company for your payments & coverage, the health-care change supporters would rather deal with federal govt bureacrats? utter insanity.

Those who are uninsured should simply be funded like food stamps and go get treatment. Just like the other govt. medical programs. But thats the joke in all this: the govt health programs are a joke and in debt, and now these jerks want to put all of us under a govt. medical plan.

criminal, destructive and communist.

why liberals dont see how dangerous this is and how it will cause the quality of care to go down is beyond me.

doctors, small business, elderly, the young, the disabled...alot of people do not want or need this kind of dangerous change.

even govt workers' health plans are privately based and make much more sense.

Posted by: lu-ee at August 7, 2009 02:50 PM

Anyone else want to bet "rssg" is a sock puppet for one of the lefties above?

Posted by: jdb at August 7, 2009 03:31 PM

"i think people who want to change the entire health care system in this country, go live in either canada, italy, or the uk for one year."

I lived in Canada for 5 years. I found not only their health care system, but just about everything else there to be superior to America (certainly the average Canadian is better informed and educated than the average American). I hope to be able to return there some day.

Oh, BTW, what is your point?

Posted by: WiseWhiteMan at August 7, 2009 03:31 PM

What a bunch of lunatics. John Boehner is telling old people that the mean ol government want to euthanize them... How despicable.I've read a great deal of the bill... didn't see that anywhere... I thought euthanasia was illegal? The unions will fight back... promise you. The stupidity that brought America to the brink of disaster are in full force against health care reform... As a person who buys his own health care... I have seen first hand the greed of the industry. If having affordable health care makes me a socialist so be it... .John Boehner won't even post his town hall meetings... What a despicable coward.

Posted by: Irnhead at August 7, 2009 03:45 PM

If you love 1960s or 1970's healthcare, please visit Canada. I live very close to the Canadian border, I see it all the time on Canadian tv.

Furthermore, more and more Canadians are immgrating to the US and more and more simply come here for healthcare.

Rationed healthcare is the Canadian and British way. I have a good friend who was injured in Canada on vacation. Simple cut in his foot. Spent 9 hours in an ER with no air conditioning before being treated. And he says simply looking around at the medical technology reminded him of US healthcare 30 years ago.

There is practically nothing the federal government does well. How can it? How can lawyer/polticians, who have almost zero experience in anything practical, "fix" problems?

Of course, there is no real healthcare "crisis". It's a manufactured "crisis" to give politicians reason to grow government and thus grow their own personal political power.

Obamacare is already dead. Cap n Tax is soon to be dead. The Marxist in Chief has 3 1/2 years to go before he's gone. Like his mentor, Jimma Carter.

Posted by: rssg at August 7, 2009 03:55 PM

I know actual experience in the real world does not count for much on blogs of either the right or left, but here's my story. I've lived in Canada for a few years, but grew up in the states. I've used the medical systems frequently on both sides, nothing serious thank God. My opinion, they are about the same. I have to wait a bit longer in Canada to see a specialist, but that is mainly because here anyone has access to the best specialists, it's not dependent on money or connections. The technology is better in the USA, and the service a bit more efficient. Of course I had a good HMO in the states, many do not. Also our life expectancy up here is higher, we spend half what y'all do, and we cover everyone. By the way, my income taxes are about the same, though the sales tax here is considerably higher. If universal healthcare prevails in the USA you will see that everything will be fine, and just like with medicare or social security in 10 years you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. Just my 2 cents.

Posted by: William Butler at August 7, 2009 04:22 PM

It is really annoying to see those overfed old people who are on government medicare saying they don't want anyone else to have health care. Only they get to suck the system.

Posted by: Steve at August 7, 2009 04:32 PM

You can have horror stories here too. Visitors from Europe who get sick get to experience our county hospitals, which look like htey are from 1910! Have you ever been to Los Angeles county? Wait for a cut foot would be way more than 9 hours, at least 24.

The statistics clearly show Canadians live longer and are healthier. Just as they show older Americans got healthier after medical.

Posted by: karen at August 7, 2009 04:35 PM

I think one of the big problems is that we Americans are taught from birth that we live in the best of all possible worlds and that we have nothing to learn form anywhere else. That's patently absurd. We do many things very well and some things very badly, like any other country. It annoyed me that our fearless leaders refused to even look at nay other country's system for ideas. Hell, my current land of Canada is nowhere near the top of world health care systems, for that we need to look at France (sorry) or the Scandinavian countries. The USA became great because it's a huge melting pot of people, ideas and innovations from all over the world. No reason to stop now.

Posted by: William Butler at August 7, 2009 04:48 PM

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC Bill: There will be a Govt committee that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC Bill: your health care is rationed. Pg 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you.- you have no choice. Pg 50 Section 152 in HC Bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or not.

I could continue, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Posted by: Rick at August 7, 2009 04:56 PM

Geez Karen,

Your talking about Los Angeles. We are discussing health care in the cizilized world.

Posted by: RFYoung at August 7, 2009 05:08 PM

William Butler, surprising you mentioned France. See page 1 of todays Wall Street Journal. Soaring costs are pushing that system into crises. The result: As US Congress fights over whether America should be more like France, the French government is trying to be more like the USA.

Posted by: Rick at August 7, 2009 05:17 PM

"The radical left wing of the Democratic Party, their activist groups and their adoring co-conspirators in the media seem to be doing everything in their power to demonize and shout down the majority of Americans unhappy with their scheming."

That is the political bloc that Obama has almost always manifested in his voting record, and certainly in his background. He is sympathetic to their goals and tactics. This man sees himself as a heroic revolutionary, all opposition are counter-revolutionaries to be destroyed.

Posted by: Mark Turner at August 7, 2009 06:55 PM

William Butler:

With a population of approximately 305 million, attempting to implement government-subsidized healthcare guaranteeing universal insurance coverage in the US for all citizens, and apparently many illegal immigrants, is a recipe for serious trouble -- politically and financially. It is impractical and foolish, from my perspective, and given the government's record I am very suspicious of any assertions about "lowering costs", "maintaining and ensuring quality", "ensuring fairness and equity", "synergy and efficiency" and such platitudes. Furthermore, I have resided, over the past seven years, in two countries which have state-sponsored healthcare: Australia and Singapore. While their systems are adequate for basic healthcare needs, I certainly would not describe them as "better" than the US system, and not necessarily less expensive in local currency terms. So what I see happening in reality is that if such a system of universal coverage and government subsidy is introduced, my personal costs will increase at the expense of quality over time in the form of higher taxes, less efficient service, out of date treatments, etc. How is this better than what now exists?

Posted by: Mark Turner at August 7, 2009 07:10 PM

Only some 15 million people are without health insurance in this country. The rest are either too stoopid to know how to sign up for govt. healthcare they already qualify for or they are wealthy enough to afford it but choose not to or they are illegal aliens.

Anyone who willingly turns over more and more of their life, most of all their bodies to lawyer/politicians, especially a Big Eared Kenyan, whose only achievement in life is being a community agitator, deserves the low quality government healthcare they will receive.

If the government wants to reduce costs:

Simple: Reduce immigration (legal and illegal) for just 5 years and watch healthcare expenditures go down.

"Nuff said.

Posted by: rssg at August 7, 2009 07:57 PM

Anyone pining about another country's health insurance, do us a favor - please leave!

Go back to Canada, Meh-hee-co, India, China, the Mohammedan Middle East and don't forget all those illegal aliens from Ireland too. Please leave!

We need to lower our population by about 25 million, so hop to it!

Posted by: rssg at August 7, 2009 08:37 PM

Can anyone name one major government-run program that has operated within original budget projections?

Medicare: Funding exhausted by 2019, needs $27.8 trillion to remain solvent.

Medicaid: over budget despite reductions in payments.

Social Security: $3.7 trillion short of what will be needed over the next 75 years of the program.

Postal Service: $2 billion over budget.

Amtrak: Lost millions every year of operation.

Every. Year.

What makes you think government-run health care will be any different?

Posted by: Just Sayin' at August 7, 2009 09:19 PM

If this is 200 days of Obama's Admin...we're facing a severe problems looking ahead.

Remember the Boy Scouts motto.

Posted by: Earlg at August 7, 2009 10:34 PM

Is a declaration of martial law in our future - Diogenes online?

Martial Law is, indeed, part of the plan - either in 2010 or 2012; I predict in 2012 when the great one knows its over for him. A manufactured crisis on our soil will bring him to claim a change in governance will only exacerbate the crisis - so no elections!

Posted by: Mike at August 7, 2009 10:38 PM

if you are interested at all by what happens to your fellow US. citizens, Dude, here is your nazi Oba-messiah's thugs in action and the cover up.

DISTURBING TO SAY THE LEAST. would think if this "HEALTHCARE" bill was so straight-forward, honest & safe, the liberal democrat party wouldn't need to resort to these rent-a-thugs.

This is bill is meant to keep U.S. citizens H-E-A-L-T-H-Y and is for our own G-O-O-D. wink wink

READ 'EM & WEEP FOLKS. CHANGE YOU CAN DEPEND long as you goose-step to the proper machine kidding.

This is the tyrant's future for the u.s.a. (video can be seen at link. If the vid has already been posted on this blog, sorry for the duplicate post):

Eye Witness to St. Louis Scuffle: 'SEIU Representative Punched Him In the Face.' (Updated w Gladney Quotes)

Last night, as reports began to emerge of unrest at two big health care town halls in Tampa and St. Louis, a man on Twitter claiming to work with SEIU, claimed a handful of arrests in St. Louis had been Obamacare critics, and they'd been arrested for assaulting SEIU members. His report was dutifully repeated by liberals looking to paint the violence as caused by critics of the administration.

When I went looking for corroboration of his story, I found something quite different in this report from the Post-Dispatch:
Kenneth Gladney, 38, a conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with "Don't tread on me" printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room at St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was awaiting treatment for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack.

"It just seems there's no freedom of speech without being attacked," he said.

Six people were arrested: "Two of the people were arrested on suspicion of assault, one of resisting arrest and three on suspicion of committing peace disturbances, police say."

Today, video emerged, which looked like it might have captured the alleged assault on Kenneth Gladney. It was taken by someone from a blog named Missourah, who was shooting the scenes of the Carnahan event all night:

I just got off the phone with David Brown, a friend of Gladney's who was an eye-witness to the event. A St. Louis attorney, he plans to represent Gladney in civil action against the SEIU members he claims assaulted him. Brown confirms that the video above is of the fight in question. Brown has also written a letter recounting the incident, reprinted at Hot Air.

"There's three independent witnesses that don't know Ken at all that are in the police report. I'm pretty sure that they corroborate each other's stories," Brown said.
This is his description of the incident:

"He was handing out flags to anybody who wanted them...The SEIU guy came up to him and said, "Why is an n-word like you handing out these flags?"

"Kenneth didn't say anything to the guy. Before Kenneth could even say anything or act in any way shape or form, the SEIU representative punched him in the face."

"He went to the ground. Subsequently, two other SEIU representatives or members, however you want to say it, jumped on top of him, yelled racial epithets at him...kicked him, punched him."

Brown said Gladney told him he was also kicked by a woman, but Brown didn't witness that part. Gladney then went to the hospital, Brown said.

"He sustained some injuries to his back, some bruising," he said.
Brown said a black male with an SEIU t-shirt and a white man in an SEIU t-shirt were both arrested on suspicion of assault, while another man left the scene before police got there. A woman was arrested in connection with the incident, but not for assault. Brown was not sure of the charge. The incident happened around 9 p.m., he said.

His account seems to match up with the Post-Dispatch report, and would account for three of the six arrests—two for assault, and one on lesser charges.

His account also seems to line up with parts of the video, which starts after the scuffle begins and includes Gladney himself and several witnesses claiming the SEIU guys attacked him. In the video, a black man in a tan polo shirt (Gladney) is clearly being picked up and pulled to the ground by a much larger white man wearing the signature purple SEIU t-shirt (:05).

Brown said he read on a liberal blog today that Gladney, who Brown says is well under six feet and weighs about 150 lbs., had attacked the SEIU guys, and they were simply defending themselves.

"He attacked three or four people? No. These guys were pretty big and burly," Brown said. "That's just impossible. That's just ludicrous."

A detailed write-up of everything I can make out in the video is below the fold.

Brown will be on Neil Cavuto's show at 4 p.m. today. Things will be clearer when there's a full police report available, but it doesn't look great for the SEIU guys that there are two of them to Gladney's one, that both of them are considerably larger than him, that Gladney's the one who ended up in the hospital, and that there are several people who don't seem to know him backing up Gladney on the video.

On Twitter last night, there was a clear effort from liberals to portray any scuffles from last night's town halls as the inevitable violent eruption of right-wing mob members, but it is interesting that there was no violence until the night liberal interest group HCAN and Dem members of Congress started calling in union members to "protect" them and host these events. It's also interesting that the only documented cases of violence thus far seem to be going one way. The Slapper, seen on Drudge and in these pictures (9-17), is local Tampa Democratic operative Karen Miracle.

That's not to say opponents of Obamacare were entirely without fault throughout the night, but thus far, there's much more evidence going the other way.

Write-up of the video below the fold.

Update: Gladney appeared on Neill Cavuto's show today, with David Brown. Some reports have called him a conservative activist, but both Brown and Gladney said he's not. Gladney, who is currently unemployed, was at the event to sell buttons and "Don't Tread on Me" flags to attendees.

"He said, 'What kind of n-word are you to be giving out this stuff?,' and he snatched the button board. I snatched the button board back and he proceeded to hit me in the face."

"They actually broke my glasses off of my face when they started beating me."

"I was just there to try to make an honest dollar and try to learn something about this type of gathering."

"I just don't think anyone should have to go through what I went through."

He also said he was not paid or asked to be at the event or to start any trouble.

In the video, a black man in a tan polo shirt (Gladney) is clearly being picked up and pulled to the ground by a much larger white man wearing the signature purple SEIU t-shirt (:05).

A black man and a white man, both wearing SEIU t-shirts walk away from the melee after other protesters bring attention to it, and call for police. The black SEIU member, rubbing his shoulder, says at one point, "He pushed me," as protesters accuse him of attacking the man in the tan shirt. The black SEIU guy sounds like he's looking for his "keys," but I can't be sure. In the background, the white SEIU guy is in a verbal argument with someone in a white polo who says, "You attacked him. You're going to jail!," which elicits and "F*** you" from the white SEIU guy.

When Gladney is brought back over to the scene, this time with an escort, he yells, "Where are my glasses?" at which point the black SEIU guy seems to hand something over to him, but it's obscured.

"What the hell is wrong with y'all?" Gladney exclaims. "Why'd you hit me? Did I bother you?" (0:43)

The camera then pans back to the man in the white polo and the white SEIU guy:

"You attacked that guy for nothing," says white polo.

"No, we didn't attack him for nothing," SEUI guy replied, adding something I can't understand. (:53)

As the camera pans back over to a bewildered Gladney and surrounding witnesses, you can hear White Polo say, "Two of you attacked that poor guy."

SEIU: "No, we didn't."

White Polo: "Yeah, you did!"
SEIU: "He attacked America!" (1:01)

At around 1:25, the person filming asks Gladney what happened.

Gladney: "That guy attacked me."

Cameraman: "Which guy?"

Gladney: "The black guy, there."

Cameraman: "Why?"

Gladney: "I don't know. I was standing there, you saw me. You saw me, I'm standing here selling my flags."

He flags down a cop car, at which point the rest of the video is of police cuffing a protesting white woman (not sure what her role was) and the white SEIU guy, who protests that he didn't attack Gladney; he was simply removing him from his fellow SEIU member. The police are also detaining White Polo, but don't cuff him or anything in the video.

Posted at The Weekly Standard by Mary Katharine Ham on August 7, 2009 03:00 PM

Posted by: lu-ee at August 8, 2009 12:03 AM

How much is your family willing to pay in taxes to provide health care for illegal aliens?

Posted by: Ken Hahn at August 8, 2009 12:57 AM

"I do not pretend to know how this is going to end, but the course that they are charting and precedent they are setting is not one that will likely end well."

The course they are charting? Don't you mean "we"? There is more than enough blame for both sides on this disaster. And trust will end in some sort of disaster.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 8, 2009 01:19 AM

Just Sayin':

I'll start at the bottom of your list and work up.

Amtrak: It isn't designed to make a profit. It was established as a public service. It's funded by both ticket sales and governement funds. It's purpose is to ensure that American rail transportation didn't completely disappear as a transportation option. After a massive drop off of riders in the early 2000s there was concern that Amtrak's days were numbered. That situation turned around in 2008 as fuel prices skyrocketed and the economy nose dived. Ridership boosted significantly. Amtrak is considered by many to be an asset to our nation. I certainly do. My prediction is that passenger rail travel will continue to grow in our nation.

Postal Service: Article One, Section 8 of the US Constitution, among other powers granted to Congress, empowers Congress to "Establish Post Offices and Post Roads".

The forerunner to our present USPS was created by Ben Franklin by decree of Congress in 1775.

The US Postal Service is also not designed or structured to "turn a profit". The goal is for it to be as self sufficient as possible while ensuring that a first class letter can be mailed from, for example, Arab, Alabama to Beulah, North Dakota for the same price as a letter mailed from NYC to LA. Of course, package delivery, too, is an important service offered by the USPS. Americans depend on the postal service, we use it and it's a great asset to our nation. It will continue to be so.

Social Security: This very important government program has been robbed by both political parties for decades. Regardless of which party has been in power, Congress has "borrowed" money from the SS trust fund and spent it in the general fund. Yes, it's in a mess. Nevertheless, the American People will demand that Social Security continue to be a part of our society. It's here to stay. And, I haven't heard much lately about any new push to 'privitaze" social security.

Medicare and Medicaid: These are great programs with big problems.

Much can be done to eliminate some of the high costs associated with these programs. The first thing that comes to my mind is the elimination of the rule in the Medicare drug coverage bill that makes it illegal for Congress to negotiate lower prices for the drugs that the US government buys from the pharacutical industry and provides to recipients of these programs. It's absolutely shameful and disgraceful that Congress was influenced by the pharacutical industry to include such an anti-capitalist provision into that law. That's a simple fix.

Can you imagine a business who has a customer who wishes to purchase widgets, in several colors and shapes, to supply 40 million of their customers. The customer, of course, is going to want to get the best price possible on such a large order. The widget supplier, of course, is going to negotiate with widget manufacturers to get the best possible price. That's capitalism. And that's good.

Substitute the federal government for the customer and substitute widgets for medication. The government should be able to negotiate for lower prices. That's the American way for goodness sakes! That's just one example. There are many more.

On a recent visit to my doctor we discussed at length the current state of health care in America. He's a small town Family Practioner with a booming practice. He told me that 30% of his patients are private pay, meaning no insurance. 20% are patients with insurance, either privately paid by the patients or employer paid. A full 50% of his practice are medicare and medicaid patients. Many docs and patients throughout America most certainly don't want to send an end to these programs.

Posted by: Dude at August 8, 2009 01:37 AM

Where is this going to end? Lexington Green and Concord Bridge.

"Don't fire unless fired upon, but if SEIU wants a war, let it begin here."

What Captain Parker would say today.

Posted by: SDN at August 8, 2009 07:29 AM

Hey, Dude, did you ask him if he could afford to stay in business on just what the government pays? or would want to? or would have ever become a doctor in the first place if he knew he was going to have to live on that and pay for medical school?

Posted by: SDN at August 8, 2009 07:31 AM

Hi Ya Dude!

What's you position on Medicare & Medicaid underpaying providers 20%-30% and having that underpayment cost shifted to the private health insurance companies like they do now? Under this Health Bill the Government Option was intended to cheat the same way. It's been changed, but it doesn't take a rocket sceintist to understand once in place they will revert to cheating by cost shifting.

You state Medicare & Medicaid are great programs with big problems, just wait until they have no one to cost shift their underpayments too. Then what happens? When the Democrats finally get their Single Payer, the only way they can reduce the inflation of health care costs is by rationing like all the other countries with government run health care do. That is what these protesters see and that is one of the reasons they are angry.

Posted by: Rick at August 8, 2009 10:00 AM

On a personal note, last Sunday we had a visitor at our church from England. He was a guest in the home of one of our members. After services a group of us went out for lunch, including the gentleman visiting from England.

During our conversation over lunch I asked him, "What's health care like in England for average citizen?". He replied that it's fine, looking a bit baffled that I'd ask such a question. I then asked him how long does it take to get treated for an emergency medical condition. His reply, "Immediately, of course", now looking at me as if I were a dunce for asking that question. I then began to explain to him the rumors here in America about the rationing of health care and the poor quality of health care in Great Britain and throughout the industrialized nations of the EU. His response was ....that's rubbish!

I specifically asked him about specialist surgical procedures. He informed me that one might have to wait 4 months to have a knee replacement done. But, if one doesn't want to wait, they go to France and get it done immediately. For Free?...I asked. He said, well, it's not free, of course, we pay it for it with our taxes and everyone gets good medical care.

Once, as I was traveling across Canada back in my younger days, I had an emergency medical situation. I was treated immediately with high quality care at a very reasonable price. I was billed, of course, for the treatment because I'm not a Canadian citizen.

SDN: No, I didn't ask my doc that question. But, I did ask him if he could survive without medicare and medicaid. Absolutely not, he told me.

Rick: Most doctors and other medical providers that I know, and I know several, are in favor of what many people call "socialized medicine" but which they refer to as universal coverage. They do have concerns about its implementation and they want to be sure that they get a fair shake and that their input is considered in the debate. All of them have told me that there is much bureaucratic waste in the system, as well as over pricing in the drug and medical equipment industry, which adds appx. 30% to the cost of medical care in our nation. All of them have told me this in our discussions.

Posted by: Dude at August 8, 2009 10:49 AM

Dude, I know almost all the doctors in the large area I live in and none are for a single payer or a socialized medical system. That leads me to wonder if your statement was truthful.

Dude, I asked you 2 specific questions and it is telling that you answered none.

Posted by: Rick at August 8, 2009 11:01 AM

Rick, My statement was truthful. I was simply relating what the medical providers that I know have told me. I realize that providers in different areas of the country are going to have different opinions, and that all providers aren't going be in agreement, no more that all citizens are in agreement.

I don't know the answers to your two specific questions, thus, I did not respond. I'll try to get myself a bit more of an education on those issues so that I can answer those questions in an informed manner, rather than shooting from the hip.

Please repeat the questions in the most simple and direct manner possible. Thank you.

Posted by: Dude at August 8, 2009 11:19 AM


Question 1: What's your position on Medicare & Medicaid underpaying providers 20%-30% and having that underpayment cost shifted to the private health insurance companies like they do now?

Question 2: You state Medicare & Medicaid are great programs with big problems, just wait until they have no one to cost shift their underpayments too. Then what happens?

PS: None of this "cutting waste & fraud" as an answer as that one has been worn out.

Posted by: Rick at August 8, 2009 11:57 AM

Rick, Thanks. I'll do my research and answer your specific questions.

I can tell you this right now: "cutting waste & fraud" is far from being worn out. In fact, those problems are just beginning to be addressed.

Surely you've read about the recent major arrests in several US cities in response to massive medicare and medicaid fraud, to the tune of Billions of dollars.

More later. Saturday afternoon chores are calling!

Posted by: Dude at August 8, 2009 02:13 PM

People like "William Butler" and "Karen" spout liberal talking points idolizing Canadian healthcare, repeating the lie that socialized medicine generates longer life spans, ad nauseum. When you take murder and auto-accidents out of the equation (which have nothing to do with healthcare quality), Americans have the longest life span in the world. Government and insurance companies don't deliver healthcare; doctors, nurses, and technologists do, and the U.S.A. has the best of those. American pharmaceutical companies have been responsible for 75% or more of the world's new drugs. When was the last time the American public scrambled across the border for that new Canadian block-buster life-saving drug? Uh, that would be never.

Posted by: twolaneflash at August 8, 2009 02:22 PM

>>"Most doctors and other medical providers that I know, and I know several, are in favor of what many people call "socialized medicine" but which they refer to as universal coverage."

"Dude" ommitted to mention that he lives in Cuba.

Posted by: Steve at August 8, 2009 03:01 PM

>>"I specifically asked him about specialist surgical procedures. He informed me that one might have to wait 4 months to have a knee replacement done. But, if one doesn't want to wait, they go to France and get it done immediately."

Wonderful! So I suppose Americans will be able to go to Canada to get their operations done promptly!. I'm sold!

Posted by: Steve at August 8, 2009 03:03 PM

Can anyone point to the part in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution that states Congress has the authority to enact any kind of national health care program in the first place?

And before someone quotes "provide for the general welfare," sure, Congress can do that, but if only if it is specifically allowed in the previously mentioned Section.

Posted by: Mark at August 8, 2009 05:12 PM

Is Dude a guy who has a "Question Authority" or "Coexist" bumper sticker on his car? Dude, for your own sake,buddy, question those who have authority over you.

Posted by: ckdexterhaven at August 8, 2009 05:33 PM

I'm not going to trust anybody over this accept my primary care physician that I've had for the past 21 years. I'm not trusting insurance companies because they promised reform for over 35 years and delivered squat. I'm not trusting politicians because they're power mad and usually in somebody's pocket and misinformation? It is alarming how many people believe the so-called "euthanasia/Obama death panel" part of the legislation is Democrat's when it was legislation introduced by Republican Senators Jason Isaacson (GA) and Susan Collins (ME). It's truly alarming how many people have such passionate and yet uneducated viewpoints of legislation when they're too stupid to spell Google.

My Doctor supports this legislation but with serious reservations. Tort reform should be more of a factor. Doctors have to pay obnoxious amounts of money for insurance policies to protect themselves from lawsuits, mostly frivolous. Someone brought up cost shifting, another concern. Usually all physicians and health care providers accept Medicare's allowable payment for procedures and it's guaranteed money. Physicians are guaranteed to get paid with government run health care plans which is usually not the case with insurance companies and the uninsured. Government run health care plans equal guaranteed payment. Health care providers lose a fortune in unpaid insurance claims and/or providing health care to the uninsured and combine that with ever increasing premiums for their own liability insurance policies, they have no choice but to raise their costs way above Medicare's allowable payments. This bankrupts their patients and is currently bankrupting health care centers and providers across America.

Another concern of his is the whole "Socialized" health care view which is incredibly stupid and magnanimously misinformed. A Socialized health care system similar to what you would find in Europe or Canada is the Veterans Administration, a government run health care plan and currently the highest rated health care in the country. We should all be so lucky to have access to that gold-plated health care but it would cost trillions to convert the whole country to that. Veterans and their families have been lobbying Congress for decades to allow families of the veterans to have access to that superior quality health care. His concern is how a government option would compete effectively with the insurance conglomerate. The insurance companies that currently are spending enough money on this campaign against this legislation to provide affordable health insurance to Mom and Pop businesses in this country who normally cannot afford the obnoxious costs of policies. That's half the battle right there. Health care providers see uninsured all the time from people who are employed with small businesses and the owners can't afford policies. That's a freakin' shame right there. If the insurance companies were to take a more pro-active approach to this, the legislation would be nowhere as big as it is now.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 8, 2009 09:35 PM

Rick, After doing a little bit of research, I still don't know the answers to your questions. In fact, I'm not even certain, yet, that your questions reflect reality. I'm not saying that they don't. I don't know. When I visit my doc again in early September I'll ask for his opinion. In the meantime, I'll ask other doctors who are friends of mine, both with small town/rural practices and major US cities practices. Also, I'll try to get an "education" for myself by continuing to read information on this topic.

If you care to provide links to non-biased information in regards to the situation that you describe, I'll read the information. Thank you.

Twolaneflash: Please provide a link to the statistical data to which you refer in your claim that:

"When you take murder and auto-accidents out of the equation (which have nothing to do with healthcare quality), Americans have the longest life span in the world."

Of course, doctors, nurses, and technologists deliver healthcare. And your point is.....what??

I have no doubt that American pharmaceutical companies bring the majority of the world's new drugs to market. Often the initial research involved in developing a new drug is done at tax supported universities.

It's also worth noting that another financial burden on the pharmaceutical companies is the cost of advertising their new drugs. In some cases, advertising costs are nearly twice the cost of research for a new drug. I'm not talking about advertising the drugs to licensed physicians. I'm talking about advertising and promoting "prescription" medication directly to the general public. Pill pushers.

Steve: ......"Dude" ommitted to mention that he lives in Cuba."

Steve neglected to mention that he makes false and ignorant assumptions in his feeble attempt to be clever.

Mark:......."And before someone quotes "provide for the general welfare," sure, Congress can do that, but if only if it is specifically allowed in the previously mentioned Section."

Oh, really? Are you at liberty to share with us specific SCOTUS rulings that support your claim? If I'm correctly undertanding your post, you're implying that Congress would be Constitutionally prohibited from enacting a national healthcare program.

Your interpretation of the Constitution, like mine, makes for great discussions but carries no weight of law. According to you interpretation, (again, if I'm understanding you correctly), such institutions as the Social Security Administration, the get the idea, are unconstitutional.

Yes, please do provide to us some SCOTUS rulings that support your interpretation of Article 1, Section 8.

Ckdexterhaven: To satisfy your curiousity, I don't have any bumper stickers at all on my truck......I don't have a car. I do have a Christian fish front license plate. We aren't required to have a state issued front plate on our personal cars in my state.

Thank you, pal, for the sound advice to question those who have authority over me. I've made it a practice in my life to do just that very thing. That's good, solid, common sense advice. I hope that you're doing the same thing in your life.

Best Wishes to All,


Posted by: Dude at August 8, 2009 10:28 PM

After reading these articles and stories, and some of the comments there, it is apparent that many others are concerned as well. There have been things said about how all this could happen and why. About what he/she should have done or what we can do in the future when confronted with similar circumstances. But I'm afraid that most people when confronted will be caught unawares and unprepared.

When Obama was elected many of us knew what the future would bring. We had done our home work on Obama and his friends and what history we could determine about him and the environment he was raised in. We knew that he was first, a crooked politician, second, a closet communist and third, a hater of whites.

A true Chicago Thug.

I've lived my life under many rules, the main one was to treat others as I would like to be treated. Another is that prior planning prevents piss poor performance. Now everyone should understand that the democrats don't believe in treating others well, except for a select few, but they do believe in planning. They have been planning this, including selecting Obama for many years. All well hidden, financed and carried out.

And the execution of their plan has just begun.

This Republic was not only hoodwinked, but is now being raped and the American people are the only ones that can stop it. The first step in doing this is unfolding now. Getting the average American's attention. This step will most likely take several more months. It will depend on how arrogant and how unthinking the democrats and Obama's handlers become. They have made some serious errors but will need to make many more before millions of Americans will come to the same conclusions that many of us already have.

The next step hopefully will be that our votes can correct the situation. But be warned, we have already seen how the democrats and their groups like Acorn and others can manipulate elections. It will be even worse in the coming elections because they have strengthened their positions and power.

If we fail to expunge them because of tainted elections and thuggery the next step will be horrible. But it is what the 2nd amendment was put in place for. It is the fail-safe amendment. When all else fails our founders knew that an armed populace would be our last resort to restore freedom and preserve our Republic.

Everyone needs to consider this and to make up their own minds about how they feel about this Republic and for which it stands.

Papa Ray
West Texas

Posted by: Papa Ray at August 8, 2009 10:32 PM

OMG!!! Papa Ray you are hilarious!!! You accuse the President of being a "hater of whites" and then turn around a stake a moral high ground by claiming "treat others as I would like to be treated".'re a racist and a hater of minorities in power and desperately need to get out more often.

A majority of America did their homework on Obama and didn't come to the same conclusion as you my friend. Maybe if we had some of those KKK pamphlets you used to do your homework with, we may all be more on the same page as you. Or perhaps you're right and the country would be in a much better place with more George W. Bushes and the Neo-cons back in control. They did such an outstanding job driving this country straight into a ditch that maybe a nice cliff would be a better choice for them with your vote.

Your 2nd amendment is an option for you in your treasonous conduct of refusing to respect our Country's democratically elected officials and process but keep in mind, you're not the only one with guns and your severely outnumbered. I'm sure your collection of firearms will be most effective against the fleet of Blackhawks strafing your house into oblivion at the hands of a Democratically elected Commander In Chief in control of the World's most powerful military. Let us now how that works out for ya buddy.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 12:07 AM

Papa Ray,

In case you hadn't noticed, this particular thread is addressing the Health Care Debate. You can, of course, post anything that you wish as long as CY doesn't mind.

Have you noticed that frequently a thread that is addressing a specific issue will devolve into posts that simply reflect the outer fringes of American Politics, with the same old talking points of either the far right or the far left?

I suppose one could make a connection between universal health care and an "uprising" of armed people who foolishly think that......oh, never mind. I can tell you who the losers would be in your worst case scenario.

Just take a deep breath, calm down and wait for a few more election cycles. Eventually, your team will be in power again.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 12:14 AM

Dude, there are some people who debate and bring reasonable points to the table on both sides of the aisle. How can we not respect that? Then there are those that hate the idea that a majority of America would rather have a black man in the White House than any of them or their leaders. They just can't get their minds around it and they're not smart enough to figure out that it's their fault for screwing things up so bad. Hello?

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 12:23 AM

This bothers the hell out of me!!! We have people who threaten terrorism against our country and our democratic way of life while hiding behind the 1st and 2nd amendment. What's it going to take, another Oklahoma City? We had 2 cops killed in Pennsylvania because of Glenn Beck and LaPierre inciting fear over "Obama's gun ban". "Obama's gun ban" that doesn't even exist!!! Glenn Beck lost 3 major advertisers on Fox News because of his hate inspiring rhetoric this week.

Obama has made it clear he has no intention of touching the 2nd amendment and told the most Liberal of Dems that he would veto any such ban. What I want to know is do we still have a Patriot Act or not and if so, why isn't it being used?

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 12:39 AM

>>"treasonous conduct of refusing to respect our Country's democratically elected officials"

Right, because moonbats such as you were ALL ABOUT respecting our countrys democratically elected officials between 2000 and 2008.

I'm sure you always meant "Chimpy McHitlerburton, the Emperor in Thief" in the most respectful way possible.

Posted by: Steve at August 9, 2009 01:29 AM

Steve, do you know me? Than don't stereotype me. I had no respect for them but I had no choice but to accept them. I sure as hell didn't threaten terrorism against them while hiding behind my 1st and 2nd amendment rights if that's what you mean. They were democratically be it! I respected the process.

This chimpy mc hitler thingy? I have no idea what you're talking about. Not my fault you voted for the worst President in our Country's history. Next time, pick a better President.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 03:44 AM

"...worst president in our country's history." Somehow I doubt that Steve cast his vote for the AA Chicago Thug currently occupying the white house.

Posted by: emdfl at August 9, 2009 05:04 AM

Lets take a look at the Right wing extremist journey of our 44th President shall we:

Barrack HUSSEIN Obama
He's Arab
He's a Muslim
He likes to pal around with terrorists
"I mean, who IS Barrack HUSSEIN Obama?"
He don't like white people
He loves white women
He's a Liberal
No...He's a Socialist
No...He's a Communist
No...He's a Nazi
He's a racist
He wants to take away all our guns
He wants to pay for abortions (never mind the $2.2 billion Bush gave to Planned Parenthood. Outrage? No? Awful lot of abortions? Ya sure?)
He wants to kill all the old people
He wants to lock up the Conservatives
He wants to censor us
He's invoking marshal law
He wants to send you all to FEMA camps
He's destroying the Constitution
He's a thug
He's a hoodlum
He hates Jews
He loves Muslims
He's in bed with terrorists
He's not aggressive
He's too aggressive
He's an illegal alien
He's Hitler
He's Stalin
He's the Anti-Christ
He's carrying out our "Final Solution"
He's forming a death panel
We need to rise up
Arm yourselves
We need a revolution
Take back our country
Go get your guns
Buy as many guns as you can
Bring your guns to town hall meetings
Bring your guns to Washington
We don't have enough guns
We need more guns
We have a militia
We need a militia
We have sleeper cells through out our country
He's taking away our freedom
He's destroying capitalism
He hates puppies
Glenn Beck slipped poison in Nancy Pelosi's wine glass effectively enacting her assassination on national TV.

Now you keep droning this crap daily to that one man sitting at home in his living room. He's disillusioned, not too bright, angry for many reasons, hates minorities, can't find a job, can't support his family or maybe can't get a family. He has right-wing views but doesn't know where the line is drawn. He has guns. He has beliefs and with this constantly droning rhetoric, he has purpose. If he succeeds, he's a hero saving America from Evil. If he fails, he's martyr and an inspiration for the next gunman. Limbaugh, Malkin, Beck, Hannity, Palin and the likes know this and are constantly speaking to them with enough purpose to inspire but not too much to be implicated. Constantly saying "DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!" without actually saying it. And none of you would have a problem with it now would you?

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 06:06 AM

I prefer Halfrican.

Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 9, 2009 06:15 AM

Lay off "The Dead Zone" for a while Lip.

Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 9, 2009 06:19 AM


Some reading for your edification regarding cost shifting provider underpayments by government programs to the private insurance companies as follows:

Managed Care Magazine - December 2006

Cost Shifting in Health Care: Separating Evidence from Rhetoric by Michael A. Morrisey (Hardcover)

Quality of Care and cost-shifting in the for-profit hospitals by James R. Seldon & Wahhab Khandker

Health Care Reform or Redistribution of Cost by Paulo J. Reyes (Paperback)

One can state anything on Blogs, so don't come back with "my doctors said this etc".

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 08:30 AM


Thanks for providing the "links" for which I asked. There's plenty of peer reviewed, scholarly work available on the net on a wide range of topics. I will google the books and authors that you mention. I may even see if my local, small town library can get them for me. But, I ain't gonna buy the books.

I love it how you frequently end your posts in our debates by telling me such things as....."don't come back with......or "none of an answer".

You want me to read your authors of choice while implying, and in some cases saying straight out, that you think that I'm untruthful. Do you actually believe that words printed on paper between the covers of a book are likely to be somehow more truthful than words printed in an electronic medium? You know as well as I do that there's fact and fiction in both media.

I'll do the research and I'll do so with an open mind. I read information from both sides of an issue. Then, it's my job to distinguish fact from fiction. When I honestly don't know the answer to questions, such as you've asked, I'm gonna look for the truth. I'm not gonna look for evidence that supports only my gut instincts or my own, possibly wrong, preconceived notions.

For example, here's one side of the story as presented by Dr. David Himmelstein,
Associate Professor of Medicine at
Harvard Medical School. I don't know about you but I would consider Dr. Himmelstein's medical credentials worthy of at least reading or listening to his point of view on the topic of a single payer system:

I'll keep reading, Rick. I'm looking for the TRUTH in this debate, which does seem to be sorely lacking in the pablum that's fed to us by the special interest groups on BOTH sides of this issue. What about you, Rick, are you looking for the TRUTH?

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 09:26 AM

Dude, here's a good article and an easy read, and easy to buy today. It has nothing to do with cost shifting, but instead how dogs receive superior health care than humans in England, and how some ideas can be applied to the current debate.

MAN VS. MUTT. by Theodore Dalrymple on who gets the better treatment and what that means for U.S. health-care reform.

It appears in the last section (Weekend Journal) of Saturday/Sunday, August 8-9th Wall Street Journal.

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 10:11 AM


You've nailed 'em, the racist crowd. I've been thinking the exact same thing. They simply don't have the intestinal fortitude to call Obama what they really want to call him. Well said.

That's not to say, nor were you saying, that all who disagree with his policies are racists. It's easy for anyone with even moderate intelligence to distinguish between the two.

Again, you hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 10:22 AM

Dude, Re: Racist crowd

What has me concerned, and should have the government deeply concerned, is that these protestors are not of the usual dim-witted type. This crowd appears to be the type that pay the government bills.

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 11:14 AM

I would like to address one other issue that appears in this thread and in many other threads here at my favorite political blog on the net, Confederate Yankee. While I'm at it, my hat's off to people on both sides of political issues who are seriously interested in honest, open and civil debate, people who truly want what's best for our nation and its people, even when they disagree on the best way to achieve that worthy goal.

It's easy to distinguish between those people and the people who only wish to shout and scream to vent their anger; people from both the right and left.

The issue: I've noticed some very viral comments from people who are racists and filled with hatred toward people who are of a different skin color or who have different political opinions than theirs. I've noticed the same sort of viral comments displayed on extreme left wing blogs, too; though they aren't prone to be as racist, in general. Frequently, this group of people will warn us of "Big Brother" watching over our shoulders all the time. While I have no doubt that the government does have their eyes open for people who may obviously be a threat to society, it's also noteworthy that there are privately funded organizations that do a great job of identifying "hate groups" and abusive police powers in our country.

Two that come to mind are the ACLU and the Southern Poverty Law Center. Though I do not always agree with the positions that they may support, I recognize the positive contribution that they have made to our our society over the years, and continue to make.

So, to all of you racists and haters out there who are hoping for a violent "revolution", you can be sure that you ARE being watched. When you "cross the line", there are people much smarter than you or me who are prepared to sue your pants off of you in our court system. They have a pretty good success rate, too.

"Big Brother" is the least of your concerns. It's the people who work selflessly to ensure that Big Brother doesn't get out of line and to ensure that you don't get out of line.

It's probably a good idea for you to keep that in mind as we discuss health care and other issues in our nation, on public internet forums.



Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 11:33 AM

Lipiwitz, where were you during the Bush years, asleep? Bush was treated disgraceful, and more so than Obama. I don't know, but it could be possible, if the Democrats would have acted civil maybe things might be different today.

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 11:51 AM

Wow, a controvesial topic to be sure. I hope, with all this controversy, we get a fair amount of time to hear about the exact consequences of any reforms. It APPEARS that isn't the intent of the reformers, rather they want this rammed through ASAP. If that's not their intent they are, at least, guilty of poor communication.

Re: The original post. I have yet to hear anywhere else that the ruckus at townhall meetings may not be solely due to conservatives riled up by outside sources. It's ALWAYS conservatives riled up by outside sources, nothing else is ever said. I knew from the start that liberals riled up by outside sources has been so common, for decades, that's not even a story any more, plus, of course, the MSM isn't going to mention it in ANY case. I'm grateful to hear about it here. Thanks.

I'll leave the debate over nationalized healthcare to others, but for the record, I'm against it.

Posted by: DoorHold at August 9, 2009 12:29 PM

Rick, I don't think that Bush was treated more disgracefully by his opposition than Obama is being treated by his. On policy differences, I'd call it a toss up.

The most notable difference in the disgraceful treatment being displayed for the Obama Presidency is the blatant racism of some people who simply can't stand the thought of a black man being POTUS. But, I don't think that those folks are anywhere near a majority of the people who disagree with him. In fact, I think and hope that the racists are a dying sub-species of Homo Sapiens.I think that most people who disagree with Obama do so because of policy differences, not racism.

I didn't much care for the Bush/Cheney administration. Still don't. One positive thing that I can say about Bush is that he wasn't/isn't a racist. He is an elitist, but not a racist. As much as I disliked many of his policies, I respected that part of his personality and character that rejected racism.

Obama, in my opinion, is neither an elitist nor a racist, in spite of internet rumors that claim otherwise. I do regard Obama as an activist for people of color and us everyday "white folks", too.

Some people mistakenly characterize Obama as racist because he has spent much of his life being an advocate for minorities, seeking to correct centuries of injustice and create a level playing field for all Americans.

I'm not certain what this post of mine has to do with health care. However, I AM going to get my flu shot this year if that counts for anything! And, since I'm now past the age of 55, I get priority should there be a shortage of the vaccine!

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 01:43 PM

DoorHold: As a supporter of health care reform I must admit that your statement:

"I hope, with all this controversy, we get a fair amount of time to hear about the exact consequences of any reforms. It APPEARS that isn't the intent of the reformers, rather they want this rammed through ASAP. If that's not their intent they are, at least, guilty of poor communication."

....unfortunately is true, especially the part of the reformers being guilty of poor communication. Sad, but true.

The same is true of the opposition. I find it to be very difficult to understand the TRUTH in this whole reform/anti-reform debate. It makes my head hurt. Help! I need a doctor. Please call 911.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 01:55 PM
The same is true of the opposition. I find it to be very difficult to understand the TRUTH in this whole reform/anti-reform debate.

No. The opposition isn't in an all fired rush to pass a monstrously huge piece of legislation that no one but the CBO has read, which is especially relevant given what they've had to say about it. Perhaps a long look and a healthy debate would be prudent here. Maybe then, if ObamaCare is the right thing to do, you'll win the debate and you'll sell the public on it. Is public confidence more or less important than trying to bulk up Obama's deadline chops?

Posted by: Pablo at August 9, 2009 02:13 PM

" Perhaps a long look and a healthy debate would be prudent here. Maybe then, if ObamaCare is the right thing to do, you'll win the debate and you'll sell the public on it. Is public confidence more or less important than trying to bulk up Obama's deadline chops?" (Posted by Pablo at August 9, 2009 02:13 PM))

Which is EXACTLY what I have advocated from the very beginning of this thread, which can be confirmed by reading my first post.

Furthermore, I have not condemned the opposition for opposing the "rush to pass this legislation". In fact, you and I are in agreement that a long healthy debate is needed.

What I condemn from the opposition are those who are in a rush to oppose this proposed legislation from a purely ideological point of view, regardless of what may be learned in the much needed, long, healthy debate. We'll no more learn the truth from that group of people than we will from those who are in such a rush to pass the legislation.

These are two separate issues: Opposing the rush to pass the legislation is one issue. Opposing any legislation at all on ideological grounds is another issue.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 03:47 PM

Careful Pablo, next your post will be termed racist. I doubt if most leftists know what the CBO is, let alone what it said.

The reason they wanted to rush this disaster was the hope no one would read it until after it became law.

Remember Rahm's maxim, "never waste a crisis".

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 03:48 PM


As soon as we have a black man as president we can test your suppositions. Is a guy with a white mom black? I know Michael Jackson showed us that race and gender are somewhat pliabe but really- isn't that "one drop" thing kinda racist?

Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 9, 2009 03:49 PM

Rick, I doubt that most people, leftists or rightists, know what the CBO is! I'll bet that poll would prove it, just as polls have shown that 2/3 of the American Public can't identify the three branches of the Federal Government. Don't you think that it's asking a bit much of them to know what the CBO is?

Pinandpuller, Yes, a person who is half black and half white has been and is still considered, by the vast majority of people of all races, to be a black person in our American culture. If that's a racist attitude, and it may very well be, it has a long history.

Regardless of racial classifications we all share one thing in common; The Human Race.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 04:14 PM

And we share the characteristic that some people think they know what's best for others-Like Andrea Mitchell for instance.

Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 9, 2009 04:17 PM

I'm continually amazed as I read this Bill: Pg 170 Lines 1-3 Any Non-Resident Alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay). Pg 195 Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL American finances/personal records. Pg 203 line 14-15 The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax (yes, it says that) Pg 239 line 14-24 Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors (low income & poor are affected) Pg 253 line 10-18 Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc.

I'll continue to cry while reading.

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 04:18 PM

Dude, in answer to your question in paragraph one of 4:14pm - NO!

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 04:27 PM

Maybe if the Democrats acted more civil? The Democrats gave the man (Bush) everything he wanted and many of them paid the price for it. If terrorists from Iran attacked us and in response Barrack Obama decided to invade Jordan, ya think the Republicans would go along for that ride? The Dems did and it cost Hillary her bid for the White House. The most impeachable and prosecutable President in history and the Dems do nothing. Their base ain't all too happy with that neither.

I'll will gladly admit that there were far left looneys who mentioned the "assassination" word when it came to Bush and they were WRONG!!! Liberals didn't want to assassinate him, they wanted to impeach him. They didn't want him dead, they wanted him to just go away...farther! And here's the difference between whats said now and whats said then...THE LIBERALS WERE RIGHT!!!

The Bush administration and the Republican controlled Congress drove our country straight into a ditch and America turned to a black man to clean up the mess because the majority of America doesn't trust any of you with anything more important than a freakin radio show. That's gotta rub your rhubarb..."thug thizzle"!

Obama and the Democrats are doing everything humanly possible to salvage capitalism from the destruction of the Bush administration. You all ought to be thanking them instead of throwing thumb-sucking tantrums about ideology that caused the "thug thizzle" to get elected in the first place.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 05:00 PM

Lipiwitz, thanks for proving my point!

Posted by: Rick at August 9, 2009 05:18 PM

Rick, I don't think that it's asking too much of them ,either, to know what the CBO is. My point is, as I'm sure that you already know, the American public is grossly uninformed about even the simple basics of our system of government. That ignorance is shared by people who claim allegiance to both major political parties.

The saddest part of that to me is that most people just don't care to educate themselves. I'm not talking about politics here, I'm talking about the basics of government. Laziness plus ignorance = potential disaster.

One thing is for certain, in my opinion: Politicians of both major parties and special interests of all stripes are counting on that ignorance. They don't want an informed electorate.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 05:21 PM
What I condemn from the opposition are those who are in a rush to oppose this proposed legislation from a purely ideological point of view, regardless of what may be learned in the much needed, long, healthy debate. We'll no more learn the truth from that group of people than we will from those who are in such a rush to pass the legislation.

There are ideological arguments to be made on both sides, and those who hold ideological positions are entitled to them. They're all part of the debate. There are currently 3 things hindering debate:

1. Barack Obama, who just wants this done in a hurry, because otherwise nothing gets done in this town. Also, people should get out of the way and not do a lot of talking because he's got to clean up their mess. In other words, "Shut up, we're in a hurry."

2. The Democrat Party, which is demonizing any dissent and mischaracterizing it as nothing but nefariously manufactured faux outrage. In other words, "Shut up. You're not even real."

3. People who scream so much no one can get their ideas across at all. Fortunately, we're seeing very little of that. Even when union thugs are smacking people around, we can still hear what they're saying.

I'm not the least bit surprised that people are pissed off.

Posted by: Pablo at August 9, 2009 05:23 PM

"Shut up. You're not even real." -- EXACTLY! Elections matter. Elections have consequences. The team that wins takes home the prize. This debate doesn't even involve Republicans. The legislation debate is between progressive Democrats and Blue Dog Democrats. If the Republicans had an hour to live and the Democrats had the antidote, the Republicans would still vote against it for purely ideological reasons. We don't need them.

The sad thing is not one single elected official is in charge of the Republican party. Not one! Not Boehner, not Sessions, not Steele, not even Palin. The party has been hijacked by the biggest right-wing extremists in this country. Limbaugh, Malkin, Beck, Hannity, Morris and their acolytes and they have alienated themselves down to nothing left but a smoldering nub. They lost the Latino vote with this "lynch mob" mentality towards illegal immigration and the Sotomayor process was enlightening to Latinos I'm sure. I'm sure people of the Jewish faith just love these extremists corrupting their families pain and suffering at the hands of the worst regime of the past century by tossing around the word "Nazis" for political purposes. They didn't appreciate it when Liberals did it and that was nowhere near as bad as the discourse happening now.
Dems need to just ram this baby through in September and stop with this bi-partisan nonsense. This may help Republicans gain back a few seats in 2010, so be it. For now, we don't need them and they shouldn't matter. They're in the pockets of the people causing the problems to begin with and using the most horrible scare tactics on the elderly ever witnessed in this country. Obama needs a long, televised town hall meeting to take and answer questions. Instead of union people, let the rent-a-mobs deal with the Secret Service. They can stand outside and be thankful for it. If it was Bush, they'd be forced to stand in a parking lot 6 blocks away.
Let reasonable people who oppose the legislation have their say but if they choose to constantly scream, interrupt, be obnoxious and rude for the sole purpose of infringing on the 1st amendment rights of the others there to ask questions and participate in the discussion, out you go.

Clearly define what's at stake and most importantly, dispel with these gestapo scare tactics being used on the elderly by assuring them there is no death panel or forced euthanasia and a government run health care plan won't effect their medicare, a government run health care plan. Also bring in a buttload of vets so they can talk about their government run health care plan which currently is the highest rate health care in America. Let these right-wingers call THEM Nazis.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 05:50 PM
"Shut up. You're not even real." -- EXACTLY! Elections matter. Elections have consequences. The team that wins takes home the prize. This debate doesn't even involve Republicans.

Thanks for that admission, Lipiwitz. But I have a question for you. If what you say is true, why can't The Won get it done? This was supposed to be on his desk by now, according to him.

Thing is, this is about all of us and our health care. This is not red vs. blue and there's a lot of blue that you're losing. Just look at the polling.

Elections do matter, but the last one doesn't matter nearly as much as the next one. That's always true. It's the nature of politics. The last election may have given you power, but the next one decides whether you'll keep it.

Posted by: Pablo at August 9, 2009 06:38 PM

Fascism suits democrats well. They must have a full assortment of brown shirts

Posted by: Capitalist Infidel at August 9, 2009 07:00 PM

When I think of Obama and what he is attempting to do with health care in our nation, I frequently think of FDR's speech in NYC, just prior to the Presidential Election of 1936, as his first term was coming to an end. He said, in part....

.... "We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred"......

It's a great speech. The full text of the speech can be read here:

Many of the points made in that speech are as relevant today as they were in 1936.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 07:30 PM

It's pretty obvious that until Americans mount a "Million Brooks Brothers March" on Washington, that the Democrats aren't going to take any of this seriously.

Posted by: Neo at August 9, 2009 07:58 PM
Many of the points made in that speech are as relevant today as they were in 1936.

I hope this isn't one of them.

And, finally, they sought peace with other Nations--peace in a world of unrest. The Nation knows that I hate war, and I know that the Nation hates war.

I submit to you a record of peace; and on that record a well-founded expectation for future peace--peace for the individual, peace for the community, peace for the Nation, and peace with the world.

That could get messy.

Posted by: Pablo at August 9, 2009 08:10 PM

I hope not, too! On the other hand, I've never been one that puts much stock in "world peace". Don't get me wrong, I think it's a wonderful concept and a worthy goal. But, historically, it doesn't seem to reflect reality.

Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 08:59 PM

well Frank Rich says the Oba-messiah is in bed with BIG MONEY & not as socialist as he should be.

go f*cking figure Dud.

Dud (Dude) you are so full of corn-fed chicago-mafia manure I don't know where to start.

...not just is Obama funded by millions from the Chicago political mafia, but he is also funded by such mega-billion dollar-receiving-organizations such as Planned Parenthood, International. really...

Dud, you are such a delusional liberal commie and your latest posts show you to be possibly insane. Really, I wonder if liberals even know what is reality from make-believe anymore.

You ACTUALLY think the Oba-messiah is the second-coming of FDR as well as a poor Abbie Lincoln of the late 20th/early 21st century.

Its astonishing how disconnected from reality YOU TRULY ARE.

Rant all you want fool, I can see straight thru your bull-twinkies. complete chicago garbage.

Sure, some republican politicians are backed by money too, and get caught & face the consequences. Why do you think so many conservatives didnt vote in the last election cycle? They were fed up with lack of transparency. At least the conservative voters put their votes where their mouth was. The only reason the dems have succeeded is conservatives are fed up with their liberal-leaning, corporate-funded politicians in the republican party.




...even Rich proves the lie. The Oba-messiah simply has his OWN billionaire clubbers THAT HE, THE ONE, AND THE OTHER BIG-NAME DEMOCRATS WANT TO PLEASE & ARE IN BED WITH.

To quote:

"But the Democratic members of Congress those hecklers assailed can hardly claim the moral high ground. Their ties to health care interests are merely more discreet and insidious. As Congressional Quarterly reported last week, industry groups contributed almost $1.8 million in the first six months of 2009 alone to the 18 House members of both parties supervising health care reform, Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer among them."

"The making of legislative sausage is never pretty. The White House has to give to get. But the cynicism being whipped up among voters is justified. Unlike Hillary Clinton, whose chief presidential campaign strategist unapologetically did double duty as a high-powered corporate flack, Obama promised change we could actually believe in."

"His first questionable post-victory step was to assemble an old boys’ club of Robert Rubin protégés and Goldman-Citi alumni as the White House economic team, including a Treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, who failed in his watchdog role at the New York Fed as Wall Street’s latest bubble first inflated and then burst. The questions about Geithner’s role in adjudicating the subsequent bailouts aren’t going away, and neither is the angry public sense that the fix is still in. We just learned that nine of those bailed-out banks — which in total received $175 billion of taxpayers’ money, but as yet have repaid only $50 billion — are awarding a total of $32.6 billion in bonuses for 2009."

"It’s in this context that Obama can’t afford a defeat on health care. A bill will pass in a Democrat-controlled Congress. What matters is what’s in it. The final result will be a CAT scan of those powerful Washington interests he campaigned against, revealing which have been removed from the body politic (or at least reduced) and which continue to metastasize. The Wall Street regulatory reform package Obama pushes through, or doesn’t, may render even more of a verdict on his success in changing the system he sought the White House to reform."

"The best political news for the president remains the Republicans. It’s a measure of how out of touch G.O.P. leaders like Mitch McConnell and John Boehner are that they keep trying to scare voters by calling Obama a socialist. They have it backward. The larger fear is that Obama might be just another corporatist, punking voters much as the Republicans do when they claim to be all for the common guy."

Dude, eat chicago crap & spin.

i am so sick of your diatribes. because you are on a crusade to promote lies. you have simply no conscience, you post whatever you want, and then make completely false comparisons and/or relationships. truly am "mate."



Whether its the bail-outs, clinkers, cars, health care, abortion, gay rights, climate control, or birth-certificates, THIS FRAUDULENT RULER IS A LIAR, AND HE WAS BROUGHT TO POWER ON LIES WITH THE SUPPORT OF OTHER, WEALTHY & POWERFUL DEMOCRAT LIBERAL COMMIE LIARS.

"cheers" and knock yourself writing a response to my charges against your corrupt, fraudulent, and tyrannical "president" and his, and YOUR, thug liberal democrat "party."

as usual you will lie in your response(s). go figure. I AM SURE YOU WIL POST FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT FRANK RICH IS A PAID CORPORATE CONSERVATIVE. hmmm >>??>?

Posted by: lu-ee at August 9, 2009 10:16 PM

It's not a red vs. blue thing? You're absolutely right. The red team as been completely hijacked by fascists. How many pieces of legislation did Obama reach across for Republican input and Republicans just pouted, stomped their feet and said "NO"? Why? Because they are scared crapless of what's left of their base...You! They don't want to have to apologize to your lord and savior Rush Limbaugh who can't be crucified because Palin is hogging up the cross. What a crock! Why should Democrats have to be bothered by what obviously is a Republican problem. Let the GOP deal with this BS while we take the country forward.

There is always room for the debate but most of the people debating on the right are using stupid and completely misinformed arguments because they get all their information from Right wing commentators, Right wing personalities and Right wing sources of information and you gobble up all the disinformation as gospel. Death panels? Are you truly that freakin stupid? According to Palin, YES you are. Are you smart enough to be insulted by that? Nope...must be true!

Why are rational thinking and intelligent people on either side of the aisle going to waste their time on this? How do you debate or discuss intelligently with people who assume our President is an illegal alien despite being shown a legally recognized document? There just isn't enough weed! Read Lu-ee's comment. How do we discuss important things with people that set in their ways with the most absurd nonsense imaginable? Paranoid delusions such as that can't be reasoned with and people like Limbaugh, Malkin, Beck are banking on it. The hell with them!!! When Republicans clean out the extremist crap from their backyards and win back some of the millions of rational thinking Republicans that have been forced out of the party, then they can probably win a few elections and begin to participate.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 10:36 PM

PS Oh i see... Lips-witch & Dud are a tag-team now. so I see it takes 1 to 3 liberals to take on a conservative. TYPICAL.

oh doll-face...guess what???



TOO BAD MORE PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO LIMBAUGH & PALIN RIGHT NOW THEN YOU THUGS & THE FRAUD, THE ONE, THE TYRANT, THE FRAUD & USURPER OF THE WHITE HOUSE. Its the limbaughs & palins saying to get rid of the old boys club not the commie dems like emmanual, axelrod or the Oba-messiah.

OH AN LIPS-WITCH...YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOSE A TON OF SEATS IN 2010. dems poll numbers are free-falling in many races right now, including in NJ, a dem stronghold. But you thugs practically all got arrested with one republican, so it doesnt surprise me that the republicans are on the verge of a 1994 take-over. ITS COMING LIBS. WE ARE COMING TO TAKE OVER AGAIN. hahahahahah

"..mine eyes have seen the coming of the lord..."

"...his truth is marching on...."

hahahahah oh hahahahah when do the other 2 of you COMMIE DEM LOSERS jump 3, 2, 1???

so...are they coming or not lips-witch? ...

Posted by: lu-ee at August 9, 2009 11:08 PM

Good Evening Lu-ee: It's a pleasure not to see you again.

Finally, we agree on something. Hard to believe isn't it?! I, too, read the Frank Rich column today. It was spot on the money, too.

I'm much too tired and sleepy to respond to your typical, rambling, incoherent and inconsistent bovine scat. Not to worry, God willing I'll be back tomorrow to suffer through your latest bits of wisdom and respond accordingly.

You may go back under your rock now. Until next time, have a wonderful evening.

Your Friend,


Posted by: Dude at August 9, 2009 11:41 PM

>>"This chimpy mc hitler thingy? I have no idea what you're talking about."

Both dumb and dishonest. No wonder you're a liberal.

Posted by: Steve at August 10, 2009 01:42 AM

Random thoughts -
Typical libs.
If I call the lying pice of s*** in the white house a lying pos, it's not because he IS a lying pos, it's because I'M A RACIST. oooookay.

As for the demcraps and their helpful union thugs, all they need is their brown shirts and Sam Brown belts and the SA will be alive and well again. (Only problems is that this time there are a lot more of us than there are of them, and a lot of us have permits)

Must be tough to be so stupid as to not realize that fascism and communism are really just two sides of the same coin. And that coin has been held by the party of fdr for a long time.

Posted by: emdfl at August 10, 2009 04:38 AM


re black man cleaning up messes

You're thinking of Sanford and Son if I'm not mistaken.

Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 10, 2009 05:07 AM

Yeah that FDR guy knew from money interests-yessiree.

Posted by: Pinandpuller at August 10, 2009 05:19 AM

Someone should lock Lipiwitz and lu-ee into a room together until all of the crazy spills out of them.

Posted by: Pablo at August 10, 2009 07:23 AM

"When Republicans clean out the extremist crap from their backyards and win back some of the millions of rational thinking Republicans that have been forced out of the party, then they can probably win a few elections and begin to participate.
Posted by Lipiwitz at August 9, 2009 10:36 PM"

This is so true. The Republican Party leadership, what's left of it and such as it is, knows this very well.

Posted by: Dude at August 10, 2009 09:26 AM

So I believer Lu-ee, Steve, Pinandpuller, and Pablo have proven my point quite effectively. Not a mature rational response from any of them. This is a GOP problem, not a Democrat problem. Why should Democrats waste their time on a Republican problem?

Posted by: Lipiwitz at August 10, 2009 10:15 AM

Lippy, there is no reason to respond to such brazen asininity as "...your lord and savior Rush Limbaugh"

The thing that has been proved here is that you are, quite simply, too stupid to talk to. Deal with it.

Posted by: Pablo at August 10, 2009 11:56 AM

This article should be of interest and informative to folks on both sides of the debate:

Posted by: Dude at August 10, 2009 04:48 PM


..SO NOW the left wing decides to question the Oba-messiah's "record".

oh, i love this post, from former Washington Post columnist and poster child of the "progressive" lefty blogosphere, Dan Froomkin, whose online scribble reads as follows:

"What's amazing is that more than six months into a presidency that Obama vowed would be the most transparent in history, we still know so little about some basic things like how he makes up his mind and who influences him the most."


"Does Obama have the ability to stand up to corporate interests? There's scant evidence of that so far. Indeed, most notably in the course of the financial industry bailout, he deferred to them quite spectacularly. And it's not just corporate interests, either. There's something about the military/national security complex that seems to set Obama back on his heels on such issues as dealing with Guantanamo detainees, coming clean about the Bush administration's torture legacy or "Don't Ask Don't Tell."

"Yes, despite an occasional commitment to open government, the White House remains largely a black box. We know some of the inputs - including a surprising number of health industry titans and veritable parade of other CEOs. By contrast, the "voice of the people" seems to be expressed mostly by the ten miserable letters from ordinary Americans that Obama reads every day. Doesn't exactly seem like an even match."

POCKET CHANGE YOU CAN COUNT ON...NOT BEING THERE. I have been consistently saying all along: the liberal commies and their Oba-messiah, The One True Fez Prez, ARE ALL LIARS.

Lying about bail outs...
lying about cap & tax...
lying about place of birth...
lying about the supposed birth certificate...
lying about his citizenship...
lying about health care...


....and the clocks keep ticking....hahahahah we should have a beautiful 2010 election season folks.

...and lips-witch (aka lipiwitz) & dud (aka dude) are proven delusional liars day by day...tisk tisk tisk...

jump in...the water is warm for cookin libs & commies.

cheers....and someone bring the salt & pepper please ;);)

Posted by: lu-ee at August 11, 2009 11:53 AM

oh and just so we are all on the latest polling data...along with flipping 2 birds the size of the twin towers at the liberal commie attack dogs on this em weep....

"danger will robinson...danger"

for Tuesday, Aug 11, 09:

...Poll shows that 30% of voters "strongly approve" the way that Obama is performing....

Poll further shows 37% "strongly disapprove" Obama's performance...

...AND 45% give the Fraud good or excellent marks for leadership...

...which is equivalent to a minus seven (-7) rating...

oh well...


"Support for Republican congressional candidates has risen to its highest level in recent years, giving the GOP a five-point lead over Democrats in the latest Congressional Ballot and stretching the out-of-power party's lead to six weeks in a row."

"The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 43% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 38% would opt for his or her Democratic opponent."

..AND I AM SURE ITS ALL MAKE-BELIEVE IN THE EYES OF THE LIBERAL COMMUNISTS IN THIS COUNTRY who support the Oba-messiah tyrant. Pretty soon the FEZ PEZ PREZ will start acting like the other tin-horn dictator twins known as "CASTRO & CHAVEZ."

"cheers" to all the lib commie zombies stumbling around in the dark...

Posted by: lu-ee at August 11, 2009 01:54 PM

Lu-ee...........Got a light?

Posted by: Dude at August 12, 2009 12:03 AM


...oh and the latest stats are just incredible...and they are provided by a liberal pollster:


Posted by: lu-ee at August 13, 2009 10:04 PM