She did not even need health insurance. All she had to do was walk into a hospital emergency room, where they are required by law to treat her, insurance or no.

indeed. I am one of those who felt ill for a bit too long, and walked into an emergency room, told them I had no coverage, was able to pay an up front fee(or I'd have been forced to ***gasp*** wait. . . . .5 more minutes. . . for them to get a social worker). I guess that means, as I am still alive (last I checked) that I am alive because I had no insurance. Hey, makes as much sense as their claims.

Yeah, Steve! She could go into that ER and be bankrupt in no time....with no job, student loans, etc.

Jesus, Steve, have you ever even seen a hospital bill? That trip you tell her take for the flu would run her between 500 to a 1000 dollars. Gee, I wonder why someone in her condition would have waited.

Between the times you people are rude and discourteous and the times you just plain don't know what you're talking about, I sometimes wonder how you manage to wipe your own rears without Ayn Rand's instructions.

Reading the article, she 'eventually went to an urgent care facility in Hamilton where she was given pain medication and then sent home.' This was apparently after she had been ill for some time but before she became critically ill.

It is possible that, if she had waited one more day to see a doctor, her condition would have been a bit more serious and would have gotten better attention. It is hard to conclude that she would have gotten more aggressive treatment if she had sought medical care earlier.

Sometimes, sick people die even with medical care.

I don't know what kind of idiot Think Progress takes their readers for, but even with health insurance, it is very likely that Kimberly would have had to pay for a doctor's visit, and for the prescription for Tamiflu, that together would have probably saved her life. Total: probably less than $200. My health insurance, a pretty good BC/BS plan, does not cover doctor's visits or prescriptions, and neither does that of many other Amnericans.

While what happened to Kimberly is of course very sad, you are absolutely correct: her death was very likely caused by her own bad decisions. It would be interesting to learn what kind of car she drove. Was it a late model car which saddled her with $4-500 dollar a month payments? Did an expensive iPhone rest on her badside table, and a recently purchased HDTV flat-screen TV grace her living room? Perhaps not, but many people have stretched their budget to the limit with purchases of things they could have probably done without, and when the need arises to spend a couple of hundred dollars for a doctors visit and some medicine, find that their checking account is empty and their credit cards are maxed out.

Anyway, lets pray for Kimberly and her family, and condemn Think Progress for trying to make political hay out of her tragic and unnecessary early death.

I'd much rather live in a free nation where citizens die of the choices they made, rather than in a nation where citizen die of choices made for them by the state. Think Progress evidently thinks otherwise Live has no risk free options. Does the ieft think Obamacare will make us immortal?

The Dayton Daily News is reporting that her parents have been told she did not have swine flu/HINU. She died of complications from pneumonia, which is what she apparently had contracted. See the article currently on the www.daytondailynews.com website.

@Timb 9:21. I've worked in insolvency for 18 years and have never seen anybody bankrupt from a visit to the ER. And I've never seen anybody who was dead declare bankruptcy though many of them look as if they have to work at casting a shadow. And for all that, the "studies" routinely cited that attribute 60 percent of bankruptcy filings to unpaid medical bills are wildly, and I think deliberately, over stated and distorted. This is a blatant use of science to advance a political agenda and the primary author of that original Harvard study, Elizabeth Warren, now is employed by the Obama administration.

Jesus, Steve, have you ever even seen a hospital bill? That trip you tell her take for the flu would run her between 500 to a 1000 dollars. Gee, I wonder why someone in her condition would have waited.

Let's say all of what you said is true: is it better to be bankrupt or dead? I'm no legal or financial expert, but I'm going to, generally, go with being bankrupt + alive rather than solvent + dead.

>>"Jesus, Steve, have you ever even seen a hospital bill? That trip you tell her take for the flu would run her between 500 to a 1000 dollars."

They don't require payment.

>>"Between the times you people are rude and discourteous.."

I guess we can't all match the civility and courtesy of lefty trolls.

Don't you have a Bush doll you should be sticking pins in?

Last time I was here, I wrote about the nonsense that the right-wing terrorists were whining about at their little "town hall" meetings and the only defense you rednecks gave was something like "You lefties spent 8 yrs badmouthing Bush so now we get a chance to badmouth Obama blah blah blah," and that was your only defense.

Now, as typical redneck dropouts, you go back to blaming the victim in this swine flu case.

For christ sake, you all think that anyone who doesn't have insurance "chooses" not to have it? You've been living in the right-wing nut echo chamber for too long and now it's too late for you. So go ahead, blame the victim. You'll all feel better until someone you love dies from lack of insurance, by then you'll be blaming Obama for your loss.

Steve wrote in response to his nonsense about going to an emergency room and telling us they are required to treat you there and...

"They don't require payment."

This is an absolute lie. They will bill you and if you don't pay they will hire a collection agency to call you constantly insisting that you pay up. Don't listen to this Steve re emergency room care. He doesn't have a clue.

For christ sake, you all think that anyone who doesn't have insurance "chooses" not to have it?

No. But if this young lady claimed she couldn't afford health insurance, she was badly mistaken.

See this article:

http://bacn.me/cer

$55 a month.

gustav - People here aren't trying to blame the poor woman here who died, they're taking issue with the brainless loons over at Think Progress, Washington Monthly and other fringe lefty sites who are trying to make political hay out of her death by somehow making a miraculous connection between it and Boehner's opposition to ObamaCare. Can you explain the connection please other than just a desire of the left to ghoulishly publicize this woman's death?

Boehner isn't against health care reform. He's just against the version floated by Democrats in the House, which the fringe left dishonestly trumpets as him being for the status quo. They also complain about Republicans not participating in the process - remind me about Pelosi shutting them out and trying to ram it through before the summer recess. Republicans can't block this, it's the Democrats who can't get out of their own way and get a bill passed, such is the popularity of their own proposals.

Gustav - Even with Obama's reform bill in place, can you guarantee me this woman would have sought medical care or would not have died. Absolutely not. Given that ObamaCare would not even take effect until 2013, the dishonesty of the Think Progress piece is astounding, but dishonesty is a hallmark of that place.

How much extra would you have paid out of your own pocket to pay for medical care for this woman in addition to your own medical insurance costs gustav? That is in effect what ObamaCare will have us do - engage in massive cost shifting. What's your price tag gustav?

far from resistant about going to seek care if obamacare passes. i personally will go to the doctors at a drop of the hat. I hope others like me will do the same thing and explode the cost of the healthcare to levels never imagined. It seems like the only way to stop these socialists is the Reagan way. bankrupt them. and I will ensure I do my part in this regards. Free healthcare...what could go wrong. What if the millions of people against this bill do the same and flood the hospitals, emercengy rooms, doctor offices for months until the system fails?

The broken American health care system that Think Progress attempted to make Kimberly a martyr for really appears to have come through and done its job with heroic efforts to save her life when she finally sought to utilize it. She didn't need insurance either!

Epic fail on the martyrdom attempt.

45,001 that have died this year due to lack of insurance. Glen Beck was right last year when he said "getting well in America could kill you!"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/PainManagement/story?id=4101741&page=1

"45,001 that have died this year due to lack of insurance."

Lipiwitz - Prove the causation. Go!

Why can't your party get its act together to pass a bill that won't go into effect until 2013?

Yeah, how many free clinics are out there besides county hospitals and any other hospital that accepts federal funds in return for treating the poor and old.

This is a Darwin Award.

Hmmm...

I wonder if she had a cell phone and an internet connection. If she did she had enough money to purchase health care insurance-she chose the toys over her own health.

Also, if everyone without insurance goes "bankrupt" if the visit the ER why is it that millions of illegals/"poor people" (liberal code word for blacks) could get credit to buy houses, cars and other stuff? Perhaps it is because of racism on the part of the leftard liberals and their Corruptocrat party.

i do have health insurance and i think it is expensive but i slipped on a wet spot in my carport and i was able to see a doctor at an urgent care clinic, i did wait 2 days hoping to self heal, after treatment i owed 0(zero)in co-pay, i am on bedrest until wednesday when the doc will check my arm again, i pay for insurance and i think all should do the same.

"45,001 that have died this year due to lack of insurance."

I'm not familiar with the study that reached this conclusion but I know its author was collaborator with Elizabeth Warren on the medical expense leading to bankruptcy study I cited earlier. For that reason, I have to be skeptical. I suspect a lot of alleged science is being manipulated to back up political agendas. Global warming is the primary example.

"Let's have an honest debate!"

President Obama keeps saying that, but he and his acolytes, Liposhitz being a prime example, keep proving incapable of the task.

Depends how you define debate. The Stepford Libs define debate as compliance with what they say.

If the Great One passes his massive change in medical care. This woman would still die. The fact is that all she had to do was go to the doctor. You don't have to have insurance. A visit to the doctor with the appropriate lab and X-ray would cost between $100 and $150(slightly more than going to the movie, why don't we socialize the movie industry?). I know because I am a physician and I recently went for a check-up. If she was terribly ill, then the ER would take her and she would be hospitalized. Social workers would assist her with the bill and arranging payment. The fact is that a large number of people could have Medicaid or Medicare but are too lazy to sign up.

Consider this. Obama killed this woman. He has been in office for 8 months and has done absolutely nothing to get the economy back. Instead he keeps trying to pass big ticket items like socialized medicine and energy taxes that are dragging us down. If he was concentrating on the one issue that matters (the economy stupid), then this woman would have had a job and thus insurance.

I The Great One passes any of his measures, the subsequent economic impact will make the Great Depression look trivial.

Gustav

She was no victim, she was a young very sick woman who made some deliberate choices that proved to fatal for her. She could have gone to an ER and with her symptoms, she would be admitted and treated and she would be very much alive to received those dreaded hospital bills AFTER her hospitalization. Hospital ERs from all 50 states will treat anybody regardless of pay source. How do I know, I work in a Cardiac unit and we get non-insured patients all the time .

And gustav, my dad has no damn insurance and he got treated and my parents contacted help from their alderman and their hospital bill was resolved . FYI, when I checked the hospital bill, you can pay it in manageable installments and I have no doubt that her parents would had help her pay those bills and her friends might do a little bit of fund raising for her to pay her bills .

There is no such thing as free Health care and no amount of Obama Care or public option or taxes is ever enough to pay for free health care and no amount of assurances or statements made by you or the President or any elected official and academics will ever change that fact. The UK had drastically reduced their military expenditures and they still have financial problems as well as rationing within their health care system. Look at the disastrous examples in Tennessee and Massachusetts, see how their state budgets strain to fund their state sponsored health plans and how successful were they .

Gustav, theories are nice, problem is, reality trumps academia and government sponsored experts.

>>"the only defense you rednecks gave was something like "You lefties spent 8 yrs badmouthing Bush so now we get a chance to badmouth Obama blah blah blah," and that was your only defense."

Boy, you really slapped us down there! What makes you think we need a "defense" to criticize Obama and what's wrong with that one?

>>"They will bill you and if you don't pay they will hire a collection agency to call you constantly insisting that you pay up. Don't listen to this Steve re emergency room care. He doesn't have a clue."

Then you will have no objection if Congress and the states stop allocating money to reimburse the hospitals for treating people with no insurance, since that money is not needed according to you.

The US taxes`paid to hospitals to cover emergency room treatment is for people without means. The hospital can seek to recover charges from ER patients.

You liberals out there may be interested, but probably not, to know that The First Lady's hospital was, and is, in receipt of millions of our tax dollars to provide ER care. The First Lady wisely devised a scheme whereby the hospital shunted off its non paying, or poor, to other facilities before treatment. They kept the millions of our tax dollars. It is really good to know that the First Lady and her her husband forgoed the millions available in the private marketplace so the could concentrate on helping people.

"Then you will have no objection if Congress and the states stop allocating money to reimburse the hospitals for treating people with no insurance, since that money is not needed according to you."

Steve - Can you point out where the other Steve said Congressional and state allocation of funds to hospitals to fund the care of nonpaying patients was not needed? I'm not finding in this thread, but perhaps you're having a Maureen Dowd moment.

"They don't require payment."

This is an absolute lie. They will bill you and if you don't pay they will hire a collection agency to call you constantly insisting that you pay up. Don't listen to this Steve re emergency room care. He doesn't have a clue.

Posted by gustav at September 27, 2009 02:18 AM

No, it absolutely is not. They don't require payment before they'll deliver care. Do they want to get paid? Sure, they do. And they'll come looking for their money. But they don't require it in order to save a life.

45,001 that have died this year due to lack of insurance. Glen Beck was right last year when he said "getting well in America could kill you!"

I was unaware that lack of insurance was a fatal condition. I suppose I should consider myself lucky to have lived through it, repeatedly. Why, the first few times, I didn't think anything of it. If only I'd have known that my lack of a premium bill to pay endangered my very life, I'd have insisted that the government force me to buy insurance.

Too bad she wasn't searching out an abortion, she would have got a free one quite easily. Take that libtards.

>>"Steve - Can you point out where the other Steve said .."

Not sure what you mean, I'm the only Steve commenting on this thread.

"Steve - Can you point out where the other Steve said .."

Steve - Nevermind. Mixed up who was talking to who. Sorry.

How many constituents of Nancy Peelousy and Barney Frankfurter died of AIDS? Was that the fault of Nancy and Barny?