I hope that those who are unfamiliar with the scientific process realize that no one ever throws out the data. It is absolutely necessary to always have access to raw material. Particularly in a controversal subject such as the climate. So when these guys say they threw out the material, that means it did not exist in the form they desired.

CY ... I don't think that David is completely right about science data. Rules are made to be broken. And data, crucial data, is sometimes inadvertently discarded. But I agree with his general premise that they probably didn't discard it, so much as they discarded the original raw data and kept the data they had massaged.

Anyway, it is probably lost to us in its original form. And the chicanery proceeds. And deepens.

Marianne Matthews

It gets worse.

This Times Of India piece on how China and India prepare for hardball in Copenhagen. The most troubling part of the article..

This joint front forged on Saturday is a major political initiative — the first major India-China accord on international affairs–that is likely to impact not just the dimension of the talks on climate change but international diplomacy as a whole. The move comes after recent discussions on climate change held with Indian and Chinese leaders by US president Barack Obama, who appears to have made little impact on them..

.. should send tingles of fear up and down the legs of Team Obama and all foreign policy analysts as China begins to not just look outward but act.

The US Navy believes in global warming and so does the US Army and both think that the changes that are occurring have national security issueshttp://www.inquisitr.com/48466/us-navy-looks-to-climate-change-and-the-melting-arctic/
A knee jerk reaction and a hair trigger and result in losing toes

John Ryan

Of course the DoD believes in AGW--just like any PhD candidate who wants to actually earn their degree believes in AGW. The damage one does to their career to fight this fraud alone is enough to cow virtually everyone into silence.

As far as a knee jerk, the only jerk I see is the one who refuses to review the evidence of years of scientific misconduct.

But it doesn't matter what the AGW hysterics believe any longer anyway. The rest of the world (that world opinion that leftards are so concerned about) will ignore the AGW hype and go on their merry way building up economies to be proud of. There is no way the USA will approve a CO2 deal--no matter what the Self-absorbed One believes--when China, India, Russia, Brazil, and elsewhere have no intention of signing onto significant reductions.

JohnRyan, did you mean to say that certain persons in the US Navy, or is it really the U.S. Navy as one mindset of all the thousands of people in the Navy. And did you mean to say global warming or man-caused global warming? In any case Iconoclast is right, that you can't trust people to be honest when their livelihood and power hang in the balance. Especially since honor, honesty, self sacrifice, truth seems not to be in vogue these days.