What does Sallie Mae do? They take government money and loan it to students, while taking a cut for themselves. Is that value added? No, not one bit.

Instead this bill will take Sallie Mae out of the loop, the government will lend directly to students. And you know what CY, that same government will -- hire people to do that lending.

Now please tell me why the old system was better than the new one, otherwise you're just shouting to hear yourself shout.

Jim,
You didn't just acknowledge Sallie Mae and Fredie Mac? Do you realize these are the two institutions that just brought down the economy of the world?

Two things are needed by the liberal commenters on this site, or any other for that matter. You need to read much more, the other is you need a heavy dose of logic. Both are sadly lacking.

Hi David,

First of all it's Fannie Mae and Fredie Mac you're trying to credit with bringing down the world's economy, not Sallie -- which is at best a gross oversimplification but that's another discussion altogether. At least get your players correct before you start lecturing someone on their knowledge and logic.

Secondly, CY is the one defending Sallie Mae.

Now, you were saying?

I believe the government pays the interest on the subsidized loans, it doesn't do the loan itself. I can't imagine the government doing a better job deciding who to make loans to (i.e. people who will likely pay them back) than private industry. Jim, I like your assertion that increasing the number of government jobs has an economic benefit.

MAN,

Where does the money for the Sallie salaries come from?

will force thousands of people out of work!

And will save the saving of millions of people!

And those people thrown out of work? Well they won't have to worry about not having medical coverage while they look for a new job, neat huh?

Oh and Americans are not going to stop buying health insurance and health isn't the only thing that Americans get insured so there will be other sales and management jobs out there.

But yes, you're right, it's all part of Obama's scheme to hire more IRS agents because they're like his secret police.

Prithee, how does a bill which will result in millions more of income to private insurance companies go about destroying their market? Are you afraid that if insurance companies actually serve the purposes they were meant to they'll collapse? That if they give out the payouts to customers who dutifully paid their premiums and who now suffer from this or that expensive illness, they'll crumble like a house of cards? Maybe it's not such a bad thing for government to take over, then; after all, people pay insurers to get them out of a bind when they're sick, not to get some fat cat his next new Mercedes.

The layoffs will be blamed on something else and the solution to that 'something else' will be more gov't control.

The MSM will, of course, assist in this.

Just one time I wish a liberal would think things through to a logical conclusion.
For the sake of discussion, suppose you are a healthy 30 year old male earning 35K a year, given the fact that the fine for not purchasing health insurance is 2.5% of earnings($875)are you going to be willing to spend 5K a year on health insurance knowing that part of the premium you pay goes towards womens reproductive health, abortion funding and the poor lifestyle choices of a 50 year old, 3 pack a day smoker? Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions so, doesn't it make economic sense to simply pay the fine and wait until you have a pre-existing condition to get health insurance? After all, you cannot be denied coverage. Healthy people will simply pay the fine and the insurance companies will be saddled with the unhealthy. In 5 years time the insurance industry will be bankrupt and the Government will have their precious single payer system. This health care bill was designed to do just that.

It's like you don't understand how health insurance works. Everyone pays into the pot, with the understanding that in 20 years some youthful whippersnappers will be helping to pay for whatever medications are necessary in your own old age. I really, really don't think healthy people will just "pay the fine." I certainly won't. It's not that a single-payer system would be a bad thing, though, the NHS works just fine.

Bob said:"In 5 years time the insurance industry will be bankrupt and the Government will have their precious single payer system. This health care bill was designed to do just that."

I hope it works out according to your scenario, Bob! That's a nice thought, to be sure.

Don't expect me to have any pity on the so called Medical Device Industry. Those crooks have been gouging the public for way too long. If you have any personal experience with their products and services you'll clearly understand my point.

If we're gonna discuss R&D budgets, let's not forget to mention the tax payer funded research done in public universities, upon which the private firms so heavily depend for "their" new inventions and discoveries, all of which, of course, are patented by the private firms.

wow what insight DUDe! and when the "crooks" of the medical device world stop developing new devices and we live in a world lacking innovation becuase innovation is punished, you should pat yourself on the back for helping to punish the "crooks"

of course the next level of saving lives maybe of someone you love will remain a distant dream

the technology that may have saved millions of lives will be squashed like a bug.

bravo DUDe.

socialist systems that promise everyone everything have to be paid from somewhere.

innovation and the money for it dries up, the money has to go to immediate needs. innovation and research withers.

Jim,
A better solution is get the government OUT Of the student loan business instead of taking it over.

The government has overstepped its bounds in taking over industry after industry.

"Dude" alluded to medical device companies gouging the public. Many liberals talk about insurance companies gouging the public.

But they are all just fine with the government gouging its citizens.

This new law for healthcare adds almost 20 new taxes, countless beaurocracies, unsustainable demands on insurance companies, increased premiums, unconstitutional mandate w/ threat of fines, and increased deficits (as per recent CBO numbers that include admin, Medicare cuts, and Doc Fix numbers conveniently left out by Dems). But a small example of the gouging and damage created by this law.

sarc on/ But, yea, those insurance companies and medical device companies need to be destroyed. /sarc off

Sharp,

They're government loans to begin with. All the cash comes from the government, and the government covers all the risk by paying for any loans that default. All the private industry does is process the forms, profit from the interest -- and pay it's CEOs millions per year.

Eisenhower started the program after Sputnik and it was entirely government run. It's not a case of the government taking something over, it's a case of the government taking control back of how the money is being spent. Money for student loans shouldn't end up in some CEOs pocket.

My bad!I should have known better than to say liberal and logical in the same sentence.

They're government loans to begin with. All the cash comes from the government

Spoken like a socialist. Of course, in reality all the cash comes from the taxpayers.

the government covers all the risk by paying for any loans that default.

The government is very generous with other peoples money.

Instead this bill will take Sallie Mae out of the loop, the government will lend directly to students. And you know what CY, that same government will -- hire people to do that lending.

But for some reason, we're supposed to be better off if the people doing the lending are government workers? Because nothing says "efficiency" amd "cutting costs" and "quality service" like the words "government worker"?

The big gain for the Fascist Party is that this way, the new government workers will also be contributors to the Party. As with health-care, the consumers of the service in question are an afterthought at best.

The Democats motto - "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State”.

flenser,

Besides being against taxes what is your specific point on this specific issue?

That it's ok if the program wastes money on seven figure CEO salaries -- not to mention dodgy loan practices -- as long as it's a private company spending the people's money?

Sallie Mae is a middle man that wastes money and engages in suspect business practices, all with the peoples money. Why defend that, how does that benefit the people?

I for one welcome the thought of a Soviet style lethargic and opaque bureaucracy handing out student loans. Just getting through the loan process itself will weed out the weak who shouldn't have been going to college in the first place.

You nailed it Purple, Eisenhower was all about creating Soviet style bureaucracies. That's why he started the program in response to Sputnik. Not to help us catch up in math and science, but to join them in a workers paradise.

With Obamacare being forced down our throats, now is not the time to shrivel away. Now is the time to stand up and fight back harder then ever before. Will you join us on a campaign to DESTROY THE MOUTHPIECE OF OBAMA'S SOCIALIST AGENDA, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA? WE ARE IN A FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY, A FIGHT FOR OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE. Join the fight here, http://sosssn.blogspot.com/

I can explain medical device cost. First, there is the development (and failure, which you don't hear of). Then there is the constant and unrelenting trials. Follow this with the 30% or more for pending legal suits. Now you have a product. You anticipate that the government is going of interfere at some point. Do you price your product to market? No, you price it at the highest cost it will bear anticipating that the government will come in and assign a price at a later date based on your pricing and sales. That is what occurs when the govenment interferes.

Sallie Mae is a middle man that wastes money and engages in suspect business practices, all with the peoples money. Why defend that, how does that benefit the people?

If you're really so concerned about "the peoples money" then you should join us is wanting the government to stop taking it from them.

Assuming the government IS going to take it from them, it is cheaper and more effective for the government to contract out services to private industry than to have the same task carried out by government employees.

That is my "specific point" on this issue.

I'm sorry flenser, I didn't realize you'd run the numbers and seen that the current Sallie Mae model is more efficient than the future (and past) government model. I'd think the $30 mil SM was paying their CEO alone would cover a good deal of the government programs costs.

I'll stop wanting the government to stop taking the peoples money when the people stop needing roads, water, police, fire, the army, the fda, osha...

I'd think the $30 mil SM was paying their CEO alone would cover a good deal of the government programs costs.

Yes, that 30 mil would be much better off going into the Fascist Party's coffers.

roads, water, police, fire, the army, the fda, osha...

Trolls are hardwired to change the subject.

Party coffers? Yeah, spending student loan money on...student loans is a fascist plot.

As for me changing the subject, you're the one who started whining about the government taking our money, I just pointed out what they do with it -- which is pay for stuff you want and need. Sorry if that struck a nerve.

" I just pointed out what they do with it -- which is pay for stuff you want and need. Sorry if that struck a nerve."

Wow. Lying about a red herring that's still openly posted for everyone to see. Oh well, figures - their trashy little Kenyan idol has trained his followers well. Several commentators have noted this is a common "rhetorical tic" of the Messiah - caricature an opponent's position, fail to address the question asked, and retreat into generalities that don't quite add up to a solution.

I just pointed out what they do with it -- which is pay for stuff you want and need.

If people really "want and need" health insurance, its odd that the Fascists need to pass a law compelling us to buy it whether we like it or not.