July 28, 2009

And the Obama Birth Wars Continue...

While the government of Hawaii has once again gone on record to state that Barack Obama's birth certificate is legitimate and that he is a natural born citizen, a new round of theories will claim that there were five ways for a person to get a birth certificate in Hawaii, and that some of those ways don't require the same standard of proof as others. According to this line of reasoning, Obama could have a birth certificate, but the document might not be worth the paper it is printed on in regards to proving whether or not he qualifies as "natural born."

Have fun!

Posted by Confederate Yankee at July 28, 2009 12:56 PM

Well considering that Constitutional disqualification is the only way to get him out of office short of insurrection I don't blame people for pursuing it. How much of his votes were fraud? I mean look at Franken and MN, people are beginning to doubt the validity of our "free elections".

He's already done several unconstitutional acts in his first 6 months and nary a peep from the Supreme Court about it. Good luck getting Congress to impeach him short of him performing a human sacrifice on the White House lawn in full view of the the public. I think the MSM would even ignore or try to spin such an event to his advantage.

The Federal Government has strayed so far from the vision of the Founding Fathers its scary. There is no more "We the People", at best its "We the Sheeple" at worst its "Hiel Obama!" or maybe "El Presidente."

Posted by: Scott at July 28, 2009 01:19 PM

All God's chirrun need to hit Neo's link.

Ya know, there are only two ways that the Obie response to this makes sense. If the BC is there and unobjectionable then by teasing this out it is a rope-a-dope trying to ensnare much of their opposition in the ensuing pushback when, at an opportune moment, the Mortal Document is produced for a counterstrike! Or they are panicked because they know the document is dubious in some regard. The event with the soldier whose deployment was canceled rather than submit to discovery or HORRORS! someone outside the Bamily be granted standing to view it suggests the latter. Frankly, the prospect of a President Biden makes this less than a joyous event regardless of outcome.

Posted by: megapotamus at July 28, 2009 01:27 PM

I agree. Everyone should hit Neo's link.

Personally, I'm betting there's just some i not dotted or some t not crossed that might be a little embarrassing for the Teleprompter In Chief, but that's about it.

You did hit Neo's link, right?

Posted by: Robb Allen at July 28, 2009 01:47 PM

Proof? A child could have typed that "fax." It proves nothing. And make no mistake: the burden of proof is FULLY upon the birthers. Type-written unsigned here-say testimony from a blog is NOT evidence. It would be laughed out of court, much as the country is laughing at the birthers today.

If you cannot muster sufficient evidence and standing within our courts to make your claims -- much less win on the merits -- it's time to move on some other pointless cause. Flag burning, for instance. Aren't there other more traditional loony causes than crying your eyes out because HE actually PRESIDENT?

Maybe you could spend this time actually trying to HELP someone rather than wallow in your (perceived) loss?

Clearly, the August recess will require more popcorn than I had expected...


Posted by: James at July 28, 2009 02:04 PM


I doubt there is anything to this. But Obama is contributing to this as well. He has spent a lot of money to keep his Birth Certificate and College records secret. He makes himself look like he's hiding something. Probably on purpose, so the fanatics focus there and don't bother looking behind the curtain...

Posted by: Jim at July 28, 2009 02:21 PM

The Chicago Machine is majorly corrupt, but it's not ultra-stupid, so I'm doubting that citizenship is any issue.

What's more likely is that the original birth records are more embarrassing than incriminating, something like the father being listed as "Joe Smith" or "unknown."

On the other hand, given the marketing that was done to create the now rapidly fading illusion of this clown's alleged intellect, I'd really like to see some college transcripts that confirm or deny the growing suspicion that Obama is the empty suit poster child for affirmative action.

Posted by: Junk Science Skeptic at July 28, 2009 02:34 PM

To insist that the Constitution be respected is not being a "tin-foiled hat nut".

With the state of corruption in today's politics and in the news media in particular (the media being about 80% in the tank for BHO), can you blame citizens who are skeptical?

BHO has several inconsistencies and highly questionable aspects to his earlier life - associations with radicals, numerous family members spread around the world, etc. Plus a biological father who was a foreigner (not an immigrant).

How many US presidents have such a background?

Don't blame citizens for being skeptical.

Posted by: rssg at July 28, 2009 02:35 PM

Thanks for the link Neo. That settles it for me. After all this time, I'm finally convinced. That's the one piece of conclusive evidence that has been missing.

Here's a quote from a news story on Politico, yesterday, relevant to this topic:

"Republican pollster Whit Ayers says that a member confronted with birther questions should immediately pivot the conversation back to big issues.

“You simply indicate that in a country where our fiscal policy is driving us toward bankruptcy, where we are wrestling with major issues of health care reform and fighting two wars for our safety, you don’t have time to deal with wild conspiracy theories,” he says."

Keep in mind, that's advice from a REPUBLICAN pollster.

Pass the popcorn, please, James!

Posted by: Dude at July 28, 2009 02:37 PM

While I agree the birth certificate is a non issue, I would really appreciate an Obama supporter trying to explain the reasons for hiding his educational records. Why no examples of his writing from the Harvard Law Review days? No grades or official transcripts? What classes did he take? Also no medical records released. Why so secretive? We have been exposed to his two autobiographies but no corroborative evidence. Certainly, he must know that even poor grades and racist rantings in college writing would be overlooked and even praised as proof of his humility by his supporters. What are they so afraid of?

Posted by: Batly at July 28, 2009 02:58 PM

Unless Oba-messiah produces the long form birth certificate, which lists the date, place, and attending physician I will never believe he is a USA citizen. its that simple. also his thugs have never released any education records, in particular his college records, nor his health records.

...and his kenyan grandmother swore she saw his birth in Africa.

complete sham. this guy is not only lacking in experience as a competent & mature national leader but he is lacking in even being qualified to legally run in our presidential election.

...and people wonder why his is getting into all kinds of trouble since becoming POTUS: He is unqualified in so many ways.

sadly, he is a scary paradox that ANYONE can be president in the USA, even those who are illegal aliens.

Posted by: lu-ee at July 28, 2009 03:55 PM

...oh, and the reason "why" the state of Hawaii is AFRAID to call Obama on this? take a guess?

....because they will be labeled RACISTS!

oh no you say?

Posted by: lu-ee at July 28, 2009 03:57 PM

Well he has named two separate hospitals as the place of his birth. Was he born twice?

Posted by: Jimmy at July 28, 2009 04:03 PM

The lack of release of his educational records is troubling - he may be born in Hawaii but also became a citizen of Indonesia and thus be a dual citizen to this day. That would bring up issues of divided loyalty/allengiance, etc.

We were told by the MSM that he was very, very intelligent. Well where's the proof?

Posted by: BTW at July 28, 2009 04:23 PM

It lies within the ability of Obama's political machine to obfuscate and eliminate and/or control dissemination of his records... records that plainly state his claim of foreign birthright. The fact is this: The innocent do not hide. It's human nature.

As for the myth of his intelligence, all you really need to do is listen to him. Even passing attention to his statements will set the bar at which one would be intellectually threatened so low that it need not be much of a concern.

Our responsibility is to exercise individual integrity, focus thoughtfully on the principles (a moral review, if you will) and then step up and let your voice be heard regarding the issues/policies. "Those that want a free society without a moral citizenry want that which never has and never will exist."

Posted by: iichthus at July 28, 2009 04:53 PM

I hope in the future, someone in the gov't reviews the eligibility of someone to run for President - it would avoid these problems. I also don't understand why he doesnt allow for the release of his long form certificate of an appropriate review panel. What I would like to understand is - is it true he traveled to Pakistan when Americans were not permitted to do so? Did he ever register with the military - things like that...

Posted by: Krystal at July 28, 2009 04:57 PM

James and Dude... as you obviously DON'T know, what Neo has done there is taken the forged TANG memos that indicted Bush as a malingerer and simpleton; remember those? They were a subject on 60 Minutes that was mildly controvertial... and doctored them to fit the Obama BC template. I will explain the point, since you seem ignorant of recent events. These "documents" that were exposed as forgeries within an hour of the piece airing, were the foundation for a full media scrub that included unearthing whatever living witnesses to the events might still be around. I recall the secretary to Staudt was found. If that still doesn't make the point for you, and probably that is the case, it is that old musty shibboleth that Rightwing Retards are constantly pulling out of hock.... Liberal Media Bias. So.... are we clear now? Sure hope so. Jeez.

Posted by: megapotamus at July 28, 2009 04:59 PM

I resent being called a "Birther"

Posted by: tonynoboloney at July 28, 2009 05:21 PM

Oh and James in particular, it is funny you bring up the courts. Yes, the burden is on the Birthers but once there was any chance a Birther might gain legal standing to view the BC it was Obama and the Obots who beat a retreat, actually rescinding the deployment orders that were claimed to be illegitimate by the petitioner. So this HAS been tested in court and Birthism won. But you already knew that, of course.

Posted by: megapotamus at July 28, 2009 05:32 PM

HR 593 - House of Representatives unanimously pass a bill recognizing Barrack Obama, our 44th President of the United States of America was born in Hawaii and IS A LEGAL RESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!! The vote was 378 to ZERO, ZIP, NADA, BUMPKISS, BIRTHER DRY HUMP SQUIRT!!!! Here is a list of Republicans who voted against declaring Obama a legal resident of United States:

Tin foil hat wearing bunch of tea-baggin' birther whack jobs!

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 28, 2009 05:46 PM

Now please produce proof that Sarah Baraquitter is smart enough to spell "birther". That should keep you busy for about 5 years

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 28, 2009 05:49 PM

James, why is it up to birthers to prove where he was born? If you can't prove a birth by anything other than a long form b.c. with doctor and hospital named as attesting to the fact, and Obama won't let us at it? You can't prove a negative.

And James, I asked this of Dude who completely imploded - maybe you can do better. Why if the Democrats can ask for and get National Guard paystubs for Bush, (and they weren't satisfied with those according to Dude) why can't we get one long form birth cert. from the president or pretender to be president whatever the case may be?

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 06:21 PM

Were it true, Biden is not necessarily President. Argument could be made the the deception invalidated the 2008 Presidential election.

Posted by: Brett at July 28, 2009 06:24 PM

megapotamus: The birthers haven't won anything except the well deserved ridicule of the vast majority of Americans. I consider birthers to be in the same category of folks who believe that Bush and Rumsfeld helped plan the 911 attacks: Delusional.

I'm well aware of the TANG memos. In my opinion, that was one of the greatest frauds every pulled off in American History, by the White House. But, that's another story for another time.

lu-ee: I rather doubt that very many people care what you do or don't believe about Obama's place of birth. Your comment referring to The President as an illegal alien doesn't help your case at all.

And to all of you who believe both that President Obama is not a natural born citizen and that he is not intelligent.....think about that. If he isn't a natural born citizen, yet won the presidency in an electoral landslide, well, one would need to be fairly intelligent to pull off what would be the biggest and most successful scam in American political history.

You may not like his politics. I don't like all of them. But, he IS intelligent. When I heard him speak at the 2004 DNC I made the comment," that man will be the first black man to be President of the United States of America.

He's very, very intelligent. That doesn't mean that he's always right. However, it's a big mistake to underestimate his intelligence.

Posted by: Dude at July 28, 2009 06:29 PM

hey lipiwitz, why do the democrats think Obama needs a congressional declaration - if they and he is secure in his birth certificate bona fides?

You're not accomplished enough to wipe down Palin's gun - otherwise you wouldn't be making stupid jokes.
Become mayor and the governor and get picked to be V.P. by a well respected long time member of Congress, then you can pop off.

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 06:29 PM

dude- Hitler, Stalin, Marx and the Unabomber were intelligent. I'm not convinced Obama is. He has not proven he can do anything other than lead a bunch of democrat voters (uneducated minorities, young immature brains, and old feeble brains - plus the die hard socialists) and liberal, leftwing press corps to back him. Perhaps a bit more common sense and a little less ego would be better than intelligence. He tells us he knows how to fix health care and then talks about a blue pill or a red pill. You are easily duped, dude.

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 06:38 PM

WTF is wrong with his birth certificate?

Why does the Obaminable one spend a million dollars in lawyers fees to defend against the release? I believe he was born in Hawaii, but what's on it that he doesn't want us to know?

And why does the magic muslim president refuse to release his university records?

All this stinks to high heaven. Why do we let him get away with it?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at July 28, 2009 06:39 PM

A bill from the House of Representatives isn't worth spit. "Legal Resident" does not equate to "natural born as stated in Article Two, Clause Five of the Constitution of the United States of America.

Born the son of a British/Kenyan subject, in the eyes of the law, Barack Hussein Obama Jr cannot ever be considered "natural born". He was a Kenyan citizen, with dual American citizenship (if born on US soil, as an original birth certificate would prove),
and was adopted and was legally made an Indonesian citizen. He traveled to Pakistan AFTER his 18th birthday, when travel by Americans was BANNED, and in fact, would have still been using his "foreign exchange student" status in Law School, well past the age where he was required BY LAW to renounce it. This willful act, after the age of 18, would have CONFIRMED his dual citizenship status, and I believe at that time he was quite proud of it. BO is a prideful man who doesn't think We, the People will ever figure this out.

A "native born citizen", perhaps he might be, depending on what his LONG FORM ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE says, but since, like his school, college, employment, Congressional, et al, records, we've yet to see it.

Now we're left with several conclusions:
1. He has a legitimate long-form birth certificate and simply refuses to release it through sheer obstinence. Why put up all of the legal fees though? Why can't he just say "Gotcha!" and jump out of a box holding it?

2. He doesn't have a long-form birth certificate and is trying his best to bully the system into believing that it doesn't really matter because, hey, he's Barack Obama, Healer of the Waters. This WOULD require him to fight any legal challenge. This would also imply that he is willfully committing fraud everytime he's opened his mouth to say he's a "natural born citizen" because he says he was born in Hawaii. It would also imply that there's a circle of people around him willing to participate in the continuation of this fraud.

3. He doesn't even know if he truly is a native-born (on US soil) citizen because his COLB (Certificate of Live Birth) was actually issued long AFTER his birth as a means for his mom to assert custody when she left his dad. This might actually be closest to the truth; no hospital in Hawaii claims that he was born there. Common sense dictates that at least ONE would have liked to have been known as "the birthplace of the 44th President of the United States". This would also require him to fight tooth and nail over every lawsuit, lest the truth eventually prove that he's NOT even a US CITIZEN BY BIRTH ON US SOIL. Being born to his underaged mother in a foreign country, knocked up by a citizen of that country, where citizenship passes through the father only, Barack Obama Jr would be SCREWED royally, through no fault of his own really.

In any event, the truth will eventually come out once the mainstream media realizes they've been played for dupes and there's a financial profit to be had in the sensationalism of 'taking down' the first black President.

Now, please, Mr Witty Lipiwitz, please tell us WHICH option we're to believe in and we'll all drink your kool-aid together!

Posted by: rotarymunkey at July 28, 2009 06:42 PM

Sarah Palin raises money to pay to fight ungrounded, nonsensical allegations of misconduct while in office, and she's labeled a "kook".

Obama raises money (or spends campaign money illegally) to pay to fight proving that he has an original State of Hawaii birth certificate and that he's not simply a US citizen with dual citizenship status in spite of having used said dual citizenship passports to travel overseas and obtain collegiate financial aid, and we're all labeled "kooks" for questioning this?

Posted by: rotarymunkey at July 28, 2009 06:46 PM
I'm well aware of the TANG memos. In my opinion, that was one of the greatest frauds every pulled off in American History, by the White House. But, that's another story for another time.

Looks like all of us have an inner kook of one sort or another. The Human Stain I guess.

Me? I still think that it was a alien conspiracy that canceled Firefly...the Grays are prudes and hate Inara.

Posted by: iconoclast at July 28, 2009 07:08 PM


It's impossible to win the Presidency in America without the support of a large number of independent voters. According to Rasmussen Reports, hardly a bastion of liberalism the current party affiliation in America is appx. as follows:

Democrats: 38.9%

Republicans: 32.2%

Unaffiliated: 28.9%

Obama won the election with 53% of the popular vote vs McCain's 46%. In the electoral college he won 365 vs 173.

Clearly, a lot of people who aren't Democrats voted for Obama.

I may be duped, but those are the facts. The facts, mam, just the facts.

Posted by: Dude at July 28, 2009 07:08 PM

The issue is not only about Obama's birth certificate, it is about his background, period. No published papers from a constitutional scholar?? No records available from any of the colleges he attended?

When we look at the character and backgrounds of the people and groups with which he was and is associated, those questions are relevant.

In fact, without something more than a statement of life birth, and proof of more than just a statement of live birth, Obama is an usurper in the White House. If, as I suspect, he is not a natural born citizen, his presence in the White House means that The Constitution has been completely nullified.

Most of the commentary about "Birthers' is a complete denial of the objective facts and is also a complete denial of reality. (To see the right using Alinsky tactics is an interesting phenomenon in and of itself.)

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at July 28, 2009 07:09 PM

Just an observation never mentioned, afaik, regarding Obama's "Certificate of Live Birth."

The mother's race is listed as "Caucasian" while the father's is noted as "African."


Recall that this was 1961 and before the widespread use of "African-American." Perhaps Hawai'i was in the vanguard of political correctness, but wasn't the norm of the day to list as "Negro"? Inquiring minds might like to know.

The whole controversy would be easily put to rest with the release of the BC, unless the point of NOT releasing it is to maintain a sideshow that distracts from other equally or more important issues.

Posted by: Tripoditus at July 28, 2009 07:37 PM

BEFORE the election, the MSM refused to cover BO's missing birth certificate and records at all. What percentage of Independents and Democrats would vote for the man now that the facts are out.

BO has been forced to run as fast as he can to the LEFT with his agenda because he'll be a one-termer in the White House, if in fact he even makes it 4 years. I highly doubt that he will. that Democrats in both Houses on the Hill are supporting him nearly blindly means they believe he'll be a one-termer too. He's already being asked NOT to campaign for key Democrat seats in close races.

Dude, also the Electoral College members for each state vote for the candidate who won their state overall, thus tilting those results towards "landslide", when in fact there was no landslide at all. Shift New York and California voters from D to R and your "landslide" becomes a rout for the other team.

Numbers have proven that instead of voting for McCain, a great many Rs stayed home. That's hardly "landslide" material either.

Now can we stay focused on the topic of whether or not the dude in the White House actually HAS a Hawaiian birth certificate at all? Or, conversely, we can discuss the merits of "natural born" versus "native born" and "dual citizenship", and the consequences for this country if power were handed to someone determined to undermine everything we've stood for for the last 200-plus years.

Posted by: rotarymunkey at July 28, 2009 07:40 PM

If you all have a problem with the HR 593, call your Republican Congressman and complain about their declaration of Obama's legal citizenship. It's not hard to find which Republican voted to declare Obama a legal resident of the United States...ALL OF THEM!!!!

Awwwww....are the voices in your head whining now? Is 9/11 an inside job now? When Barrack Obama traveled back in time to 1961 so he can alter his birth announcements in 2 different newspapers, did he stop off to 1963 to be the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll? Does Barrack Obama know that the Royal Family is a secret sect of aliens altering our environment to accommodate the rest of their race arriving here from another planet? Did Barrack Obama perform the alien autopsy at Roswell when he traveled back in time? Did Barrack Obama make Sarah Baraquitter abandon her commitment to her supporters and voters in Alaska using CHEMTRAILS?!?!? Barrack Obama is Elvis!

You're all freakin nuts! Bunch of unhinged looneys!

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 28, 2009 07:53 PM

Dude, did you miss that I said Obama got the press to back him? Thus, despite Americans self identifying as conservative (see gallup poll 6/15/09) and are the largest group at 40%, moderates at 35% and liberals at 16% - obviously the press refusing to investigate or be critical of Obama while doing the exact opposite to Republican candidates has a decisive impact on elections. How else do you explain that we have the most left leaning pres. speaker and senate leader? Other than voter fraud and campaign finance fraud which were in play also in '09. And the other poster is correct in pointing out that Obama campaigned as a centrist.

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 09:11 PM

Lipiwitz, hinging your assurance that Obama was born in Hawaii based on birth notices in the paper is flimsy. birth notices are often put in by people calling into the paper and announcing it, much like engagements. If the roster came from the hospital listing which babies were born that day, then that would be a different think altogether. What is wrong with people wanting a copy or the original of the paper, long form birth certificate? There's a busload of tourists wanting to go to the hospital to pay homage to Obama's birth place - don't leave them hanging.

I think it's entirely possible he was born in Hawaii or Kenya, but he's clearly hiding something. And the pres of the U.S should be the standard bearer of transparency.

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 09:19 PM

Lipi - The only way Obama is a citizen is if he can produce the long form birth certificate. Short form was given for the asking back then and used for identification - but even Hawaii won't accept it for important ID. Clearly, Obama's hiding and if he were a Republican then Congress, the Media, or the Courts would have gotten to the bottom of this. McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to stationed military parents and had to go before Congress to prove his elgibility. Obama's now spent over 1$M and counting to avoid producing the proof it looks like he dosen't have.

You're a typical liberal - no facts or arguments, just insults and not very smart or good at that either.

Posted by: Allen at July 28, 2009 09:20 PM

Here’s Obama’s dilemma in a nutshell (READ VERY CAREFULLY AND DIGEST):

If BHO shows his original long form birth certificate, indeed showing he was born in Hawaii, it will also show his father was American citizen, Frank Marshall Davis, not the Kenyan/British citizen, Barack Obama Sr. While that would allow Barack Jr. to be POTUS eligible as BOTH a “citizen”/“native born citizen” AND an Article 2 “natural born citizen” — that is, born to two American citizens on American soil — it would simultaneously show he is a fraud hiding his real father — an unacceptable political debacle.

If, on the other hand, BHO keeps hiding his original long form birth certificate — while simply repeating, without showing, he was born in Hawaii — he can still CLAIM BOTH he was born in Hawaii AND his father was the Kenyan/British Barack Obama Sr. This would enable Barack Jr. to claim he’s a “citizen”/“native born citizen” but it would mean (if a federal court would ever get around to declaring and thus far no one has standing to bring the suit) that he’s NOT an Article 2 “natural born citizen” and thus not eligible to be POTUS — a legal/constitutional debacle since all acts under an illegal POTUS are void.

So it seems, BHO has elected option one until forced to go option two because for now it looks like no federal court will ever find a plaintiff with standing. (Of course, there’s the additional issue of BHO losing American citizen status if/when he became an Indonesian citizen — that is, IF he returned and was naturalized he would be a legal citizen, but would lose both native and natural born status, and, IF he returned and was not naturalized, he would be an illegal immigrant unlawfully in this country — but we’ll leave that for another day.)

Posted by: Jack at July 28, 2009 09:24 PM

BHO doesn't have to show you people squat!

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 28, 2009 09:57 PM

What about his campaign on transparency, Lip? By the way, you're sounding shrill.

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 10:06 PM

BHO's dilemma? Your dilemma is discovering that nobody cares what you unhinged birther looneys think and now you don't have one single Republican that is going to entertain your tin-foil hat, unhinged conspiracy theories. Even Michelle Bachman voted to declare Obama a recognized US citizen. And lets be honest...if the long form was presented, you'd declare it a forgery and keep these paranoid, delusional, unhinged fantasies going.

Obama's dilemma (READ CAREFULLY AND DIGEST)...what the hell is an unhinged birther looney like Jack, Allen, Jayne or anybody else going to do about it? Nobody important is entertaining or taking seriously your tin-foil hat conspiracies.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 28, 2009 10:07 PM


Posted by: Wm. Patterson at July 28, 2009 10:20 PM

Lip, the head of CNN, Joe Klein, told Lou Dobb's staff that there was no story anymore because his researchers told him that all the paper records were destroyed by the Hawiian officials in 2001. But then it was brought up that the Hawaiian gals had said they had the b.c. and since that was 2008 the CNN guy's info must have been wrong. Hawaiian officials then said that no they did not destroy original docs.
This is just one of the inconsistencies that keep coming up with Obama's b.c. So #1 CNN thought it was important enough to check it out and #2 their cover up was blown so #3 now the press story is that it's all a few loonies and #4 Congress passed their resolution in an attempt to end the story. Again, Lip, what's wrong with transparency and honesty. What does it hurt to show the b.c.

Posted by: Jayne at July 28, 2009 10:30 PM

How about this one, OK, lets say BHO was born in Honolulu (no more questions). But, this is not the key element of whether he qualifies ( eligible as natural born) to be potus. Everything else available in factual info (which is very limited), can only lead to the conclusion that BHO surrendered his U.S. citizenship for that of Indonesia's and was never re-naturalized a U.S. citizen. BHO has never even renounced his Indonesian citizenship and, should be immediately arrested for treason and deported (to Indonesia) as an illegal alien (which in fact he is). The shame of all this is (a narcissist is incapable of shame), we the people have been duped from the very beginning of this farce. Our so called leaders ( protectors), have allowed this greatest fraud of all time to occur and apparently plan to do nothing about it. The DNC very well is complicit in this deceit and their future will be destroyed as fitting for those trying so desperately to destroy the GOP's. What a wonderful thought, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

Posted by: joseph loughery at July 28, 2009 11:42 PM

There's a simple solution to the controversy. Under the laws of the State of Hawai'i, any fairly close relative (including aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews) can request a copy of the original long form birth certificate. Access is not limited only to Barack Obama himself.

Consider all the money and time that's been wasted in the past eight months. Why doesn't someone just offer his grandmother, his half-brother, or his illegal alien aunt a free Hawaian vacation and settle the issue once and for all?

Posted by: Mike G in Corvallis at July 28, 2009 11:59 PM

If all of you birthers think that you have a case, pool your funds, hire an attorney and file suit in Federal Court. Like the other suits that have been filed in the past, yours, too, will likely be dismissed as groundless.

Lipiwitz is correct. Obama doesn't have a birth certificate dilemma. A small vocal minority have a dilemma.

rotarymunkey: I was very clear in pointing out the difference in the popular vote and the electoral vote. I'm well aware of the difference. In fact, I remember very well the election of 2000 when George Bush garnered a million popular votes fewer than Al Gore, yet, thanks to our electoral college system, Bush became president. Thank you, however, for your insightful post.

Yes, let's do discuss the merits of native born citizen vs. natural born citizen. Please explain the difference in the legal sense, as you understand it.

Legally speaking, if you're born on American Soil, with a few exceptions carved out for the children of diplomats of foreign nations who are "stationed" in the US, or you are a child of certain Indian Nations within the USA (Honestly,I don't know enough about the Indians' situation to discuss it intelligently) you ARE a natural born American citizen.

Born in America = Natural born citizen = qualified for office of POTUS. It doesn't matter if one or even both of your parents are citizens of Kenya, Mars, Jupiter, Mexico or anywhere else in the universe for that matter, assuming of course that they are human beings (exceptions noted above). This issue has been settled law for more than a century.

Should you decide to research this issue further please keep in mind that the only opinions that matter, in a legal sense, are the affirmative rulings of the SCOTUS that settled this issue long ago.

Dissenting opinions don't count nor do blogs to the contrary. They do, however, provide fodder for this silly debate. As CY said in his original post for this thread, Have Fun!

Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 12:14 AM

Exactly Dude! Barrack Obama doesn't have to prove squat! What he proved was he had enough of a majority support from Americans to win an election and since my pension and 401K levels are starting to get back to pre-Bush screwed it all up beyond repair levels, he's proving to me that he's doing a pretty good job. The small minority of conspiracy theorists now have the burden of proving their case that he is not a legal citizen. Obama has provided a certificate of live birth with the certificate number and state seal, the hospital officials have confirmed the birth, the state clerks office has confirmed the birth, the Republican governor has confirmed the birth. All the proof has been given to satisfy legal requirements as a citizen of the United States. The certificate of live birth is what the state department requires to declare your citizenship and get a passport. Now the birthers need to prove differently and provide the evidence to support their looney claims. It's your accusation...PROVE IT!!!

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 29, 2009 12:29 AM

BHO and is closest followers/handlers, want this matter to only concentrate on the legitimacy of Hawaiian birth. They know it will never amount to the ultimate damming evidence that his association with Indonesia would produce. If they can only keep it a matter of birth and not go into other matters, their chances of continuing to perpetuate this ( constitutional) fraud are greater. You may have noticed that all legal cases requiring BHO to produce his past records have been summarily dismissed. It's as if there is no longer any honesty in any branch of our government. We are entitled to know these details of the POTUS. With what BHO has produced in regards to his historical documentation so far, he couldn't get a security clearance to guard military latrines. What a comfort to know that our leader (and leader of the free world), cannot produce sufficient credentials to even obtain the lowest security clearance (in our nation).

Posted by: joseph loughery at July 29, 2009 12:35 AM

Posted by: Burnt Offering at July 29, 2009 01:14 AM

Still won't be good enough for the Birthers!!! They're going to continue to ambush officials in public about this looneyness just like the 9/11 Truthers do. I just can't wait until one of these birther looneys ambush Palin at a town hall meeting and force her to go on record with this crazy tin-foil hat nonsense. Then the rest of the country can look at her and say "She's just as whacked as the rest of them!"

joseph loughery...the black helicopters above your house are being piloted by aliens that traveled back in time to eat your gerbils. Lucky for them, they brought their birth certificates. lol

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 29, 2009 02:21 AM

Dude, there of course has been a lawsuit and petitioner prevailed as you know. It must be nice to erase distasteful facts from one's head as we go along. Genius. Your claim that the TANG memoes was..... a fraud perpetrated by the White House? The Bush White House? Scooter Libby was actually Lucy Ramirez and slipped the faxed/copied memoes produced on MS Word defaults to Dan Rather? Hmmm. Like Barack neither reality or even the simplest sort of consistency restrains the content of your oral diarhea. Who was it that said of the Left, They forget nothing and they learn nothing? Oh well, that is half right. And you assert Obama's intelligence is demonstrated by his ability to get votes from stupid pukes like yourself? Do we have to factor in his current collapse among Independents, the late sign of his genius? I guess anyone who is elected President is therefore a genius... GO BUSH! Although that excludes Clinton as he never did get a majority. Maybe you are onto something here! Pathetic. The more you witless anti-american commie doofs rally around the Kenyan dumbass the more you share in his disgrace, his failure and his frauds.

Posted by: megapotamus at July 29, 2009 07:53 AM

megapotamus, I commend you for your intimate knowledge and use of the many types of fallacies in argumentation, and the fact that you able to so eloquently weave them into your discourse: ad hominem, weak analogy, red herrings, straw man,the slippery slope, etc., etc. The list goes on and on.

In fact, your posts in general are a case study in the use of fallacy arguments. Credit where credit is due!

Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 09:37 AM

Dude, Which SCOTUS case settled this issue?

Posted by: Jayne at July 29, 2009 11:00 AM

Here's my take on the birth certificate issue:

Posted by: Kathy at July 29, 2009 11:36 AM

Re: "he may be born in Hawaii but also became a citizen of Indonesia and thus be a dual citizen to this day.'

Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia. Both Indonesia and the US State Department have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

Posted by: smrstrauss at July 29, 2009 01:07 PM

Re: "is it true he traveled to Pakistan when Americans were not permitted to do so?'

No he did not. In 1981, when Obama went to Pakistan, Pakistan was relatively peaceful, so peaceful that newspapers ran travel articles recommending visiting "scenic Lahore." Pakistan encouraged visits with such things as an office of Pakistan International Airlines on Fifth Avenue in New York City, and it granted 30-day visas when US citizens arrived at Pakistan's airports. Pakistan did not bar US citizens from visiting, and it was not on a US State Department no-travel list.

Posted by: smrstrauss at July 29, 2009 01:10 PM

"Dude, Which SCOTUS case settled this issue?
Posted by Jayne at July 29, 2009 11:00 AM"

Hey Jayne, The case was United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898). The SCOTUS ruled in a 6-2 decision that US citizenship was conferred upon Wong Kim Ark at birth, having been born on US soil, even though his parents were not citizens and even though they left the US with their child.

It's worth noting that Chief Justice Melville Fuller offered a dissenting opinion. However, along with all other dissenting opinions from justices who voted in the minority, on any SCOTUS case, they carry no weight in law. But, it is interesting reading.

This decision was used as precedent in subsequent SCOTUS rulings dealing with the same issue:

Perkins v. Elg (1939)

Afroyim v. Rusk (1967

Unless or until there's a SCOTUS ruling in the future to the contrary, or a new amendment to the Constitution, with very few exceptions as discussed earlier, people born on US soil are in fact US citizens at birth irregardless of the citizenship of their parents.

Google United States v. Wong Kim Ark and you'll find lots of information.

Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 01:37 PM

If the Bush WH ran the TANG documents scam, they knew something.
They knew some network, probably CBS, would be happy to run forged documents to throw an election in war time.
They KNEW CBS was dirty. They DEPENDED on it.
You think CBS or any other media want to go there.?

Posted by: Richard Aubrey at July 29, 2009 02:44 PM

Richard Aubrey, I'll preface this comment with the caveat that this is strictly my "opinion". Since I don't have any evidence it is merely an opinion, much like the birthers' opinion that Obama isn't a natural born citizen of the US. In other words, my opinion "proves" nothing. Nevertheless, it is my opinion and belief.

I agree with you 100% that the Bush WH knew something. They knew that CBS, and Dan Rather in particular, didn't buy Bush's so called honorable military record, and for good reason. To this day there are still many unanswered questions about his record of service.

I think that the Bush WH pulled off a brilliant political move by forging the documents and then slipping them to CBS, knowing full well that CBS would run with the story without making SURE that the documents were real. That, of course, was sloppy journalism and the rest is history. Dan Rather was discredited, as he should have been under the circumstances.

Jayne: I overlooked one of your previous posts. Yes, I understand the Gallop poll of 6/15/09. Just goes to show, yet again, that the terms liberal and conservative are pretty much meaningless.

Here are the facts. American political power is cyclical, as history proves. The majority of people, regardless of party affiliation, are moderates. The reason that the Republicans are out of power now is because they allowed the extremists to control the party. Right now, the Democrats run the same risk if they allow the extreme "left" wing of their party to completely control their agenda.

Of course, most people who work in the MSM, meaning the Big Three networks and CNN, are more apt to support Democrats than Republicans. That doesn't mean that they don't or won't air dirty laundry by Democrats. I'm certain that most employees of the MSM were elated that Obama won the election.

I'm equally certain that most employees of Fox news and the employees of the many right wing talk radio shows were disappointed that he won.

That's why it's important for we the people to get as much information as possible from as many different sources as possible in order to try to glean the elusive truth from all the gibberish.

To say that any of the media "influences" the outcome of an election, though it may very well be true, doesn't say very many good things about the intelligence of the average voter.

When the Dems are in power, the Pubs blame the MSM. When the Pubs are in power, the Dems blame Fox News and Talk Radio. That's just the way it goes in American politics. I'm not saying that this bodes well for our country. I'm saying that's reality.

If I were a Republican I wouldn't worry too much. Your team will be back in power sooner or later. As a moderate, so called Blue Dog Democrat, I am worried that my party will allow the extremists in our party to run the show, thus setting us up for the historically proven loss of seats in the mid-term elections following the election of a popular president who is not in the party of the preceding president.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens, won't we?!

Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 04:10 PM

Im sorry if this has already been talked about. I really do not have time to read everything.

As Lou Dobbs said yesterday.

A Hawaiian official said. "In my opinion the president is,,,,,,,,,,"


I say it again. In her opinion,,,,, OPINION.

No facts, no proof. Just a statement voicing an official's OPINION!

Posted by: Matt at July 29, 2009 04:24 PM

Interesting statement from GOP Chairman Michael Steele today:

“Chairman Steele believes that this is an unnecessary distraction and believes that the president is a U.S. citizen. Chairman Steele wants to move beyond this conversation and continue discussing the real and immediate concerns that face American families like the economy and health care. Americans are concerned with President Obama’s health care plan, a failed stimulus package and a ballooning deficit. Chairman Steele has many other issues to take up with the president that have to do with policy, not a birth certificate.”

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 29, 2009 07:23 PM

Perhaps Lou Dobbs misquoted the good Doctor. ALL of the news reports that I've read quoting the Doctor's statement, made on Monday, report that she said:

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."


"State officials in Hawaii on Monday said they have once again checked and confirmed that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen, and therefore meets a key constitutional requirement for being president.

They hoped to stem a recent surge in the number of inquiries about Obama's birthplace.

"I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said in a brief statement. "I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago."

In none of the reports quoting the Health Director for the state of Hawaii have I seen the word "opinion".

If you have evidence that Dobbs attributed use of the word "opinion" to the doctor, in reporting Dr. Fukino's statement that she made this past Monday, please provide a link.

Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 07:33 PM

I'm still looking for verification that Obama's team of legal eagles have spent millions of dollars on this issue. Can't find it anywhere except right-wing birther blogs but nothing credible and non-tin foil hat sources. People must lose a lot of sleep making this stuff up.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 29, 2009 09:14 PM

Dude, if more Americans identify as conservative than liberal, and you say that means labels are meaningless. That's your opinion, you are saying people do not know what is meant by liberal or conservative. Yet you say most Americans are moderate, even though given that choice they do not opt for that in the majority. That's your opinion, again placing your own belief above that of what people state. I guess you think you are more aware of individuals in the mass than they are themselves. Your ego exceeds your intellect, no wonder you identify with Obama.

The Supreme Court case you mention does not settle the Obama b.c. matter because it is agreed that the person in that case was born in America, which is the point of contention. In addition the qualification of a president would require a more serious consideration of what constitutes natural born, and relying on an 1800 case is laughable. So scratch that. We are back to square 1. Was Obama born in America?

You are relying on a health director who discusses a document she says she has in a vault. And she will not release it nor take questions. It is possible that she has been paid off, or threatened. CNN's Joe Klein says he was told paper docs. were destroyed. But then how could that square with the health director? Obama's short form electronic version could easily have been manipulated and be a forgery. The newspaper announcements are no proof. It is common practice for family members to place announcements of life events in their hometown papers about people who used to live in that area. So it comes down to this again, why doesn't Obama release any information on his life? From beginning to now any paper trail is unavailable.

In the former America, that would not pass the smell test.

Posted by: Jayne at July 29, 2009 09:31 PM

"please provide a link."

It was on his show last night. I only caught it because my flight out of Atlanta was delayed.

Do you know how to get a hold of a transcript?

Posted by: Matt at July 29, 2009 09:52 PM

Dude, You said "it's important that we the people get as much information as possible from as many sources as possible"... how about original source documents? I don't need a bunch of people giving me an interpretation, just the facts,,,,,where did I read that before? You apparently rely on others to help you decide what is right, what is truth.

Republicans did not lose power because the extremists held sway. Bush was a "compassionate" conservative. His bill with Ted, his attempted deal with the illegals, his expansion of medicare before reigning in ss and medicare doomed his conservative credentials. (I still thank Bush for tax cuts, supreme picks, and defense.) The moderates also held sway in the congress. Then the moderate McCain got the nomination and even moderate Powell would not back him.

We do not go back and forth from lib to conservative. Since the Marxists took hold of journalism and education it's been a steady leftward tilt, with a glorious Reagan 8 years of sanity in one branch, and a Gingrich stop to Clinton excess.

You are an obamobot, you started off here with ridiculous, easily refuted comments, then when you were challenged, you got your obama paid back up and your arguments are more sophisticated, but not more cogent nor more persuasive.

Posted by: Jayne at July 29, 2009 11:12 PM


I'll try to find a transcript. Thanks for the suggestion. I did look around just a wee bit for the video but couldn't find it.


Other polls, as you well know, prove my point that most people are moderates. Just because someone says that they are a Republican doesn't mean that they are on the far right fringes of the party who identify with people such as Rush, Colter, etc. The same is true of Democrats. I'm a Democrat and I don't identify with many of the positions of the far left wing of my party. There are millions of Americans of both parties who feel that way.

Case in point: Though most of you birthers are Republicans, you are a vocal minority mostly within the Republican party. Many "conservative republicans do not identify with you. They think that you're nuts.

It seems pointless to further discuss the citizenship issue with you because of your ignorance of the law. It most certainly is not laughable to refer to an 1898 case as relevant to this topic. That case IS the precedent of what constitutes natural born. As I mentioned above, it has been reaffirmed in two subsequent cases. There may be more but those are the two that I'm aware of, the most recent being Afroyim v. Rusk (1967).

It is patently false, in the legal world, to say that "In addition the qualification of a president would require a more serious consideration of what constitutes natural born." That's absurd. A person either is or is not a natural born citizen. There's no gray area. That is settled case law, even if you don't like it or agree with it. It's the law of the land. Period.

Don't take my word for it. Hire two, three or more immigration attorneys to explain it to you.

YOU and your fellow birthers are back to square one. For the rest of us it's a settled matter. BHO is a natural born citizen of the USA. He was born in America. If you need more proof, by all means feel free to spend as much time and money as you feel is necessary to be satisfied with his status as a natural born citizen.

If you find proof that he isn't a natural born citizen, file a suit. Obama has done all that he needs to do to establish his status as a natural born citizen, even though you don't like it.

As for all of the "if" scenarios that you mention, you "could be" from mars", you "might be" a secret agent of some kind. It's "possible" that this is all an illusion. Get the point?

Have a nice evening.............


Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 11:14 PM

Jayne, I just read your comment about my "Obama paid back up". I wish! Sophisticated? Me? You don't have a clue, lady. I'm as country as dirt, a hillbilly, to be sure. Please, why don't you send me a check for replying to you?

Sorry, no paid back up, though that is flattering. I suppose I am learning a thing or two about debating with people who use every trick in the book to persuade others to ignore reality. Thanks for the compliment. Now, if you'd just send me a check, please.........

Posted by: Dude at July 29, 2009 11:25 PM

Dude, you are not paid, the Obama folks pay some people to troll the boards - find out what's hot and then post debate points at the usual spots that dems go to. You can tell because their is a similar pattern. People who have gotten on that myobabma list get their talking points. They think they can do verbal battle and start off all proud but silly - like you did with the Bush's National Guard records were not nearly good enough post. Remember that? Then they find out they are dealing with people who are more adept and they go back for help. During the campaign I ran into a couple of shills who did the exact same thing as you did here.

Posted by: Jayne at July 30, 2009 12:01 AM

Dude, the Gallup poll did not ask people to identify as Republican. It was conservative, moderate, liberal. Stop twisting facts to prop up your previous invalid argument.

I did not propose "if" scenarios. I stated it was possible a person could be compromised, and refuted the proof of newspaper announcements, and brought up the odd CNN part of the document tale. One health director making a statement with no independent verifiable proof, and refusing to take questions is not reliable - Just ask Max Cleland. Or yourself - you would not have accepted that from a spokesman on the Bush Nat'l Guard paystubs, now would you?

What do you say about getting facts from all the original source documents that Obama has kept from view - since you say you think we should get as much information as possible.

Since the presidential requirement is to be a natural born citizen, the facts would bear more scrutiny than your 1800s precedent. Precedent of that old doesn't mean much anymore if you hadn't noticed. The facts being in question are the place of birth and what constitutes proof, the mother's age, whether or not the citizen relinquished citizenship and what affect that has on the requirement.

I'm not a birther, I think Obama very well could have been born in Hawaii. I'm a truther, I'm more interested in what he is hiding with his b.c. and the other docs he won't let the republic in on. I believe in transparency in our government - complete, cards on the table, untenable as it may be, transparency.

Posted by: Jayne at July 30, 2009 12:23 AM

What he can be hiding in his b.c. and other docs? I've seen it! We've all seen it! There is nothing to hide! Lets face it Jayne, it doesn't matter what you are shown, you won't believe it. You can never bring yourself to believe it. If the long form was produced and it showed nothing sinister, you would claim it to be a Liberal forgery so why should he waste his time and effort on people who are a waste of time and effort. Especially when it may contain personal information that quite frankly, is none of your damn business. Exactly who do you people think you are? Its not like you voted for him so he owes you nothing. Did Liberals demand to intrude in McCain's personal information by seeing his long form and he actually wasn't born in America? He was born in Panama.

If there was an issue with Obama's birth certificate, don't you think the Clinton machine would've capitalized on that? The Clinton's and their connections would've exploited it skillfully without making themselves out to be a bunch of tin-foil hat loonies? Obama produced documents that are required under our law and acceptable as statements of citizenship as per our State Department. What is shown is what is required and anything more than that is none of our business. For people who claim they want less government intrusion, you're awfully intrusive.

I also saw the poll that shows majority of Conservatives. A good portion of that majority still voted for Obama. You have to remember that you people religiously hawked support for the previous administration. The previous administration that was responsible for the largest government expansion in our country's history, the largest debt in our country's history (to date) and borrowed more money than all previous 43 presidents combined. Rated as the worst president ever by any standards (to date) and not one single tea party in eight years. You are not Conservative. There is absolutely nothing Conservative about you. You just hijacked the name.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 30, 2009 02:37 AM

Here is a sample of a long form birth certificate. If you take a close look, you will notice that it does involve personal information concerning the Mother and Father that Obama probably considers none of our business. Personal information that he is not required by law to provide anyone.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 30, 2009 03:40 AM


If it looks like a birther, acts like a birther, smells like a birther, it probably is a birther. You're a birther, Jayne. No question about it.

Lipiwitz is correct on the BC issue. Whatever personal information that may be on the "long form" about Obama's parents is irrelevant and quite frankly none of your business.

Lipiwitz also makes a good point in regards to the Clinton machine. If there were even a hint of a question of his status as a natural born citizen, thus qualified for POTUS, they would have been on that like white on rice.

There is not one shred of evidence that Obama has ever relinquished his American citizenship. None. And, none of the other issues that you raise; his mother's age, the absurd notion that somehow the system in place in Hawaii for birth records is corrupted, with no evidence to support it, have any bearing on this discussion. If you have proof that Hawaii's Department of Health is corrupt, by all means, bring it to the light of day.

Had you taken the time to read the SCOTUS rulings that I mentioned in an earlier post, perhaps you'd have a better understanding of this citizenship issue. Then again, perhaps not. Transcripts of all of the SCOTUS rulings that I've posted in a previous post in this thread are available online, for free.

My earlier point in regards to Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever, is that you would like to be able to put everyone in a little box with a label on it. It doesn't work that way in reality. More specifically, there are many shades of conservatism and liberalism. The Gallop poll that you mentioned earlier, showing percentages of liberal, conservative, moderate....compared with the Rasmussen Reports polls that shows percentages of party affiliation proves my point that the terms are meaningless in any real sense.

Let me give you a personal example from my own life. I'm a firm supporter of the Second Amendment. My interpretation of that amendment is the same as that of most "conservatives". If we discussed that issue only, most people would say, "Hey, Dude's a conservative!".

On the other hand, if we discussed Roe v. Wade, only, which I support (even though I personally would not choose for my wife to have an abortion), most folks would conclude that Dude is a liberal.

You can't put us all in a labeled box, much to your dismay.

In response to your absurd accusation that an Obama paid person is helping me with my posts, I'm nearly speechless. Simply put, I can't imagine that the Obama team would be wasting their time and resources to even consider spending any money to respond to silly posts from birthers on these blogs. They don't need to. No one is helping me compose my posts. What HAS helped me is a personal study of the different types of fallacies used by folks such as yourself in debates.

As for my previous posts in regards to Bush's record of service in the National Guard, no one has easily refuted me. I simply don't have any proof to support my beliefs, much to my disappointment. Therefore, I'm not going to foolishly insist that what I believe is fact, without proof.

We have proof, all the proof required by any legal standard, that Obama is a natural born citizen of the state of Hawaii and the United States of America. I realize that that proof doesn't satisfy you. That's your problem.

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 08:42 AM

Guys, forget about the birth certificate. According to Obama, his father was not a citizen. The Constitution requires the President to be a "natural born citizen". A "natural born citizen" is one whose parents were also citizens.

Background on the origin of the term "natural born citizen" and the Founders at these links:

Posted by: Jack Okie at July 30, 2009 09:56 AM

posted by dude, "lu-ee:I rather doubt that very many people care what you do or don't believe about Obama's place of birth. Your comment referring to The President as an illegal alien doesn't help your case at all."

hey "dude" if you don't care what i say, then why comment on what "i said" AT ALL? hmmm pal?

oh and your qualified statement shows your real worry. "I rather doubt that very many people care..." BUT YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE "MANY PEOPLE" WHO DO CARE? dont you? in your mind you are trying to paint them as NOT very many, but there are MANY. And that worries you.

here "dude" posted below is a link to what a real long form, REAL birth certificate, looks like.

the Oba-messiah, the illegal alien, has NOT PRODUCED THIS FORM. ONCE HE PRODUCES IT, THEN HE WILL BECOME MY PREZ. until then he is an illegal alien, fraud & an usurper. And it is very easy to be a fraud with a large part of the MSM in your pocket covering up for you as well as other journalists & op-eders, whether conservatives & liberals, who are too scared to take this all the way.

Here is a link to a copy of an actual birth certificate for twins born at the same hospital within a couple days of Obama’s supposed birth.

Once again, why can’t the original LONG FORM birth certificate be produced?

SO WHATS YOUR PROOF dude?? hmmm? a computer-print out? oh really?

...before insulting someone why not provid some FACTS FIRST?

...and to those left-wingers who wish to throw birther crap at McCain, fellow liberals already started that accusation LAST YEAR. In fact it was the left wing who started this whole birther mess in the first place.

..well...HOW DOES THE LEFT LIKE IT NOW? You thought your Oba-messiah was so pure & perfect, but sadly he is as corrupt as shit on snow. Your side threw the first birther bombs now its our turn....and we aint going away. not eva.

It also looks like when you left-wing zealots cant win the birther argument, you decide to dstract from it, and you now compare Palin's poll numbers to Obama's?!???!


I see that Palin's family, children and lord knows who & what else, isnt off-limits to you left-wing socialist thugs. And yet, WE SHOULD ALL GIVE THE OBA-MESSIAH A PASS ON HIS PHONEY BIRTH CERTIFICATE. not likely.

This issue will hound Obama until he is removed from office.

also, the left-wing zealots mention poll numbers...well when the big 3 networks plus 3 more networks on cable, plus every big-city newspaper, are ALL in Obama's back pocket sure a person's poll numbers will take some hits.


For Palin to be doing as good as she is, is quite remarkable and must scare the democrat commies to their bones. Just think if Palin does get popular...boy will the left-wingers throw crap at her & try to bring her down. and by doing so, Obama's numbers will also suffer. what comes around goes around.

so whine all you want commies and libs, but its inevitale that Obama will be a tragedy for the USA. I just hope he doesnt cause too much damage to the American Way of Life, before his fraudulent presidency is over.

The emperor has no birth certificate, and he has never had a REAL CAREER in politics either.

Obama is the Puppet Wizard of Chicago, backed and supported by A HAND, made up of the following:

...Chicago thug politicians,
...60s commie radicals,
...eugenic late-term abortionists,
...liberation theology racist and
...scam artists.

With a corrupt support team like that, of course Obama can easily get away with a little old-fashioned & timeless lying. Obama even comes off as a vrituous guy when he lies. Thats how corrupt he really is. Lying is a virtue in his and his backers minds. scary.

cheers and I will enjoy this discussion as it plays out on the internet & in the streets. As you left-wing zealots have realized, none of this HELPS OBAMA. DOES IT?

Posted by: lu-ee at July 30, 2009 10:00 AM

Jack, your links are meaningless. Why don't you take the time to read the SCOTUS rulings that I've posted that clearly define "natural born citizen". Their rulings are the only opinions that count. It doesn't matter if you or I do or don't agree with them. SCOTUS rulings are the law of the land.

Here, I'll make it easy for you:

I'll give you a heads up, though. It's a long and tedious read. You'll have to concentrate to grasp the ruling. Just remember, the key words are the bottom of the opinion: Order affirmed.

Whatever the founders may have thought about citizenship, this ruling is the current law of the land.

Lu-Le: I comment because it's FUN! No, I'm not worried at all about you birthers. I'm amused and astonished at the ignorance of you folks. Worried? Not in the least bit. In fact, the more you beat this dead horse, the more harm you do to the Republican party. Go for it! Rant on.

Oh, check out the recent poll on Palin's popularity within the Republican Party. You can cool believe that we Democrats are HOPING that she'll be the Republican nominee in 2012. PLEASE!

You have a nice day, now. Be sure to take your meds.

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 10:46 AM

Jack, I took the time to read your first link. That whole piece leaks like an onion bag. They use a number of fallacies in presenting their case.

They rightly refer to the U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark case but completely ignore "meat" of the ruling.

I quote from the 6-2 majority opinion of Wong Kim Ark:

"P. 20. The right of citizenship never descends in the legal sense, either by the common law or under the common naturalization acts. It is incident to birth in the country, or it is given personally by statute. The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle. [p666]"

What is about that that you birthers don't understand?

They also imply, in bright red letters no less, that a state on the mainland USA is somehow more of a state than Alaska or Hawaii, though they don't actually use the names of those two states.

Whomever put this information together either isn't a lawyer or is a very incompetent lawyer. I'm betting on the former.

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 11:27 AM

AH yes dud, I mean, "dude", i see you only type insults and nothing to prove your case. Therefore, you have no proof that the Oba-messiah is a natural born US citizen and therefor not president.

DUD, YOUR ARE TYPICAL of the commies, thugs, abortionists, eugenists, racists and liberals who make up the democrat party & those who cover up for the Oba-messiah.

For someone to prove they are a natural born US citizen, they need show where & when they were born, and give the doctor's name who was present for the birth. Has the Oba-messiah done that?


Therefore he is a fraud, and you are A FRAUD as well.

Oh and pal, if I were you, I would be very careful what you wish for, cause while you call those you disagree with names & spread your lies, your wonderful Oba-messiah skids on his chinny chin chin. It seems the Oba-messiah is falling all down, due to his racist & socialist actions these past 2 weeks. He goes further down to the bottom of the political trash heap. WHAT A CLOWN. NOT PRESIDENT...BUT CLOWN.

here, read em and weep dud (oops! i mean..."DUDE"):

....Palin would kick you & this CLOWN's fraudulent opinions( i am being so kind right now) ANYDAY OF THE WEEK.

you know what dude? i think the best way to stay healthy is to kick liberal opinions all day long.

dont you?

and here you are dude, just in time for my workout...and one and two...and one and two....

see ya dud!

Posted by: lu-ee at July 30, 2009 12:21 PM

Dear lu-ee, thanks. You are correct (and hilarious). It gets tiring disputing the obvious with the likes of your workout buddy (either a total mental deficient or paid to detract from truthers comments)). Am inclined to side with the latter, although ample evidence of the former. One and two and one and two (hahahaha).

Posted by: joseph loughery at July 30, 2009 01:15 PM

Hey Looney Lu-ee,

I'm so sorry. I've just received word from the CCCC (Central Committee for Concentration Camps) that you have, unfortunately, been deemed to be beyond rehabilitation. Don't worry, though. It's not what you might think. You'll still get three square meals a day (crackers and water) AND you'll get the opportunity to spend lots of time with other delusional folks, too!

The difficult part will be the daily routine of having to write, 500 times per day, "President Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States". I bet your hand will be tired at the end of each day!

Who knows? Perhaps you'll be able to accept the Truth after a few years. I hope so.

Take care, now...........get that writing hand in shape!

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 01:39 PM

dud, oops, there i go again, i am sorry, I meant "dude," I am not surprised you recommend for those you disagree with, to be sent to concentration camps. A freudian slip of what you really think USA society should be for those you deem undesirable (as well as abortion & euthanasia).

Since YOUR PREZ IS A COMMIE AND ANTI-ISRAEL, I AM NOT SURPRISED IN THE LEAST THAT YOU ADOPT THE NAZIS M.O. After all, both forms of government were united at the beginning of WW2. And liberals are closet eugenists, so there you have it. You have come full circle.

glad my morals & values are much better than yours pal. Also, I am sure glad you tried to change the subject.



cheers dud. want a tums? ;

Posted by: lu-ee at July 30, 2009 03:38 PM

Lu-Lee, Thanks for the tums. It helps with the indigestion brought on by our conversation. It's fun though isn't it?!

I'm not changing the subject about proof of natural born citizenship. That subject has been covered at length, and to the satisfaction of all reasonable people. Obviously, that doesn't include you.

I'll certainly miss you while you're away at camp. Drats, there's no internet connections there for the "campers".

Back to work now......There's a new shipment of birthers coming in this afternoon. I have to prepare for their orientation and get them settled into their pens.

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 04:00 PM

dud, oops, dude, I see you still have NOT shown any proof than the Oba-messiah is a natural born citizen of the USA.

So who was the attending doctor?

...what country did the birth happen in? the hospital? the doctor?

...right now the only person to admit where the Oba-messiah was born, is his grandmother & she said it was Kenya. is she supposedly some kind of neo-conservative?

Who has given testimony that they EVER saw the Oba-messiah born in Hawaii?

All you have is a computer printed birth certificate that ANYONE CAN GET.

You and your Nazis are going down to the bottom of the political sewer. between birthers & those who already fed up with this usurper & fraud, the liberals are DONE., your fraud is going down in flames as you bite & type.

enjoy the ride down the toilet with the tums, dude oops I mean dud.

...what I will love is to see how the liberals will react, as the birther movement gets more folks asking for proof. And if you dont think the Oba-messiah's thugs are not discussing it, then you need to stop taking your meds.

...what a great two weeks of complete failure from this supposed adminstration. from this coup of the phony. from this coup of liars.

...the world thumbs its nose at you, douchebag, and your Oba-messiah. The devil will fool with even the best of laid plans and this moronic fraud's plan is no exception.

cheers chump.

Posted by: lu-ee at July 30, 2009 04:21 PM

Loopy Lu-Leeeeeeeeee,

You're not apt to believe it but here are sources that I trust in regards to THE birth certificate:

Proof? If you read the real news instead of relying on whakozoid internet tabloids, the electronic versions of such respected rag mags as the National Enquirer, etc., you would realize by now that President Obama was born in the state of Hawaii on August 4, 1961. But, of course, you're not going to believe that.

Since you doubt that President Obama is a natural born citizen, why don't you do a bit of simple research and find the PROOF that he's a naturalized citizen rather than natural born? If he's a naturalized citizen, not natural born, there will be a record of that.

Let's look at who IS satisfied with his status as a natural born citizen:

The US State Department (The folks who issue passports)
The US Congress
The US Senate
The US Supreme Court (thus far)
The US Federal District Courts (this far)
The leadership of the Republican Party
The leadership of the Democrat Party
The vast majority of we the people, the citizens of the United States of America

You're never going to find the proof that you seek. In truth, you want proof the our president is NOT a natural born citizen. You have chosen to ignore the proof that he IS a natural born citizen.

The most convincing piece of evidence establishing his status as a natural born citizen, in addition to the official birth records of the state of Hawaii, is the fact that Barack Hussein Obama IS the 44th President of the United States. You don't like it. But, it's the Truth. I bet it hurts in the deepest, darkest places of your inner being to even think that President Obama is your president, also.

Neither the president, nor I, nor anyone else has any further obligation to offer any more proof of his citizenship status to you and your ilk. If you have legitimate proof to the contrary, bring it forward.

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 08:24 PM

Now it's easy to see what these Birthers are doing to give their looney conspiracy theories credibility. Here is what is already known about Obama:

His Father was a resident of Kenya.

His Mother was a resident of America.

His Mother and Father were never married.

His Father had no custodial rights to Obama and never pursued custodial rights to Obama.

Obama was the sole custody and raised by his single Mother here in America (as if you haven't alienated yourselves from enough people, now single Moms are the enemy).

Obama never maintained dual citizenship in any other country since there was never anybody in any other country that had custodial rights to him.

So the next step in the tin-foil hat conspiracy smear campaign is to take what we already know and spin it to look like because his Father was a resident of Kenya, Obama is not a legal resident of the United States despite the fact that his parents were never married and his Father never had legal custody of him. This pretty much is a pathetic attempt to give themselves a small level of dignified significance since not one single Republican on a local, state or federal level will sign their name onto this juvenile embarrassment from whats left of their base.

But lawyers! Take it court! Stop talking and put your money where your mouth is! Good luck with it!

On a lighter note, the people who do your thinking for you have moved onto a different subject with different talking points and by this time tomorrow, the right wing blogs will be regurgitating these talking points and by Saturday, all the birthers will be regurgitating the new talking points. Hopefully if all goes well, this tin-foil hat embarrassing looney-tune nonsense will be forgotten by this time next week. Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and all the rest have already dropped it.

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 30, 2009 08:44 PM

Ahhhhhhh,Lipiwitz, You're a breath of fresh air, a welcomed break from all of the hot air and the dearth of intellect that I've endured during this delightful thread!

I couldn't agree more in regards to the lawyers. The few who have put their money where their mouth is have come up empty handed, better yet, emptied wallet.

Of course, you're correct in your analysis of the upcoming demise of the whole birther issue. Like the flatulence that it is, this too, shall pass.

Posted by: Dude at July 30, 2009 09:06 PM

Dear lu-ee, fyi, in the past, was blogging like this and after a some time considered that the paid detractors of the truth, worked in teams (backing each other and making sure that one was always available to jump on any relevant comment against their agenda). It was also also discovered that some have more than one email address and thus can use different names but actually be the same person. Hello dud and lipshitz.

Posted by: joseph loughery at July 30, 2009 11:43 PM

Joseph Laughedat......And, once upon a time there were three little pigs, and three bears, and a big bad wolf and all kinds of myths.

Posted by: Dude at July 31, 2009 12:49 AM

Yes, Joseph's brothers laughed at him and sold him into slavery. But who had the last (best) laugh. Why don't you get a real job with a mans name.

Posted by: joseph loughery at July 31, 2009 12:59 AM

On to new talking points from those who think for you. Bye birthers!

Posted by: Lipiwitz at July 31, 2009 01:24 AM

I find it interesting that, despite DUDE'S passionate rants, no SCOTUS decision has refined the definition of 'natural born citizen', nor has any amendment - though a lot of folks tend to think that there was a SCOTUS "definition of 'naturalized', and one other"... therefore all who were not 'naturalized' are 'natural born'...

What is interesting is that The One was born of UK and US citizenship, not much unlike many of the Founders, who grandfathered themselves and anyone else born by time the Constitution was ratified.

So what if Obama is over two hundred years old.

Posted by: 8th Grade Drop-Out at July 31, 2009 02:19 AM

Sorry, guess you can't get find another shovel ready job so you'll just have to keep shoveling your leaders crap on the internet. As to the subject of slavery now that he has economically enslaved us for generations to pay his porkulus. Bye and good riddance for now dud/lipshitz. As to your names, keep them they are quite fitting.

Posted by: joseph loughery at July 31, 2009 02:21 AM

loopy? say what? get a clue dud. I mean "dude".

well dude, looks like all your legalise bull has just been flushed down the toilette.

even Huff Post agrees SHOW THE LONG FORM!

hah. i said it once i will say it AGAIN. dude you are a DUD.

cheers & dont let your carpal tunnel bother ya on the way out of the out-house.

Posted by: lu-ee at July 31, 2009 02:56 PM

I never thought birth of Obama will become such a big discussion topic. I am following this closely to see where this conspiracy ends. Meanwhile I have collected some good articles and sites related to Barack Obama (more than 200 sites or articles). If you are interested take a look at the below link

Posted by: srini at August 3, 2009 07:54 PM