What really gets me (and it's the current administration's fault) is that they own't arrest or try any of these idiots for treason or sedition, whilst their activities are every bit as damaging to American morale as a terror attack would be to lives. They encourage the enemy and behave irresponsibly. It is only the hope that the public is rational and intelligent enough to disregard these antics that allows me to believe that we can still win the battle against ourselves.

Treason? Sedition? What country do you think you live in, meth-head? Hitler's Germany? Stalin's Russia? Pinochet's Chile?

In the good old U. S. of A, people still have the right to assemble, march, and protest policies with which they disagree.

Given that the approval ratings of your dictator hover around 40%, are you advocating that the 60% of respondents who oppose your lying, incompetent, sociopathic, petro-dollar mad, corrupt, idiot of a Fuhrer, should be imprisoned for treason and sedition?

YOU are the traitors. You are betraying democracy and all the principles that this country has stood for since its birth. YOU should be imprisoned.

When the government is criminal, the good become criminals in its - and its supporters' - eyes.

There were many who criminalized the opposition to Hitler, to Mao, to Stalin.

Maybe the republicans would like to set up some 're-education camps' for liberals?

Oh - they've already got the plans for the "re-education camps". Back in Iran-Contra days, Ollie North admitted working on a plan called Rex 84, which called for dividing up the country into "military governance districts" where they would imprison protesters when the US invaded Nicaragua. You don't think Poindexter and the other totalitarians working for Bush haven't already dusted off those plans?

Having been at Kent State in 1970, when 4 students were murdered for exercising their 1st amendment rights, I will not be surprised at anything this government - which is arguably more corrupt and illegal than Nixon at his worst - tries to get away with. However, the worm has turned, and Bush, like Charles I in 1649, will end his reign ended in disgrace.

Yeah, they should round up all those Demonstrators: Pro Life, Pro War, Pro Woman, Anti-Drug, whatever they're protesting they should be rounded up and shot. We live in the Perfected States of America, where to protest is to say you aren't happy with things the way they are, and we all know that that's treason! America has been perfect since 2001, and you can shut your seditious mouth if you feel otherwise.

So in liberal minds (and I realize that is something of an oxymoron), long-standing, clearly-defined laws against sedition, treason and insurrection should not be upheld if they run counter to your personal beliefs.
UPFJ is not calling for a peaceful march, they are calling for the overthrow of a democratically-elected United States government and the installation of an appointed foreign government.

This is highly illegal, authoritarian, and seditious.

It is pathetic that your collective grasp of democracy is so weak, your own principles so shallow and superficial, that you would advocate destroying the Constitutional government and the rule of law to support those that have clearly stepped over the line.

I’d ask your opinion of assassinating those who stand in your way, but I think that since you are willing to destroy a more than 220-year-old government of 300 million over the actions of a single administration, I don’ t think I want to know the answer.

Wow, That one opened up a can of dumb-ass.

Constitution does allow people to PEACEFULLY assemble. To storm the WH with the elected (and they DID win) officials is an attempted coup. Illegal by any standards.

What they are saying to do to the US capitol is exactly what we are doing in IRAQ. Stopping Genocide, Torture and Occupation of a criminal that used fear to keep control. What, is it not good enough for them but ok for those that drink the kool-aid???

Just what rock are you people hiding under that gets no political light? Try varying your news sources some and look at what is really going on in the world. I normally don't post much because I'm not up on the information as well as OS and CY but man, this is just rediculous. If I didn't think they were serious I would have laughed my rear off at the satirical post. Please people, look at all the news, not just the far left stuff and see what's really going on.

UPFJ is not calling for a peaceful march, they are calling for the overthrow of a democratically-elected United States government and the installation of an appointed foreign government.

Um,
Location:
White House, Washington DC Starting March 15th, come for as long as you can and bring signs that say U.N. SOS and "Leave Now" or whatever you would like to say.

Bring signs. Overthrow the government with signs! No government can withstand the threat of hippies armed with rhetoric!

You're an idiot, CY.

Uh . . . hate to burst the blissful bubble of ignorance surrounding CY, but seditious behavior is specifically permitted by the constitution - i.e., free speech - and the last time "sedition" was an issue, many Americans questioned the constitutionality of the Alien & Sedition Act. Indeed, public opposition was so great that it was responsible for the election of Thomas Jefferson to the presidency in 1800. Once in office, Jefferson pardoned all those convicted under the Sedition Act, while Congress restored all fines paid with interest.

Gee, the title of this little get together is "Storm the White House."

Their stated goal is to storm the White House and depose a duly-elected government, throwing them in jail to be replaced by a government of their choosing made up of foreign agents and fringe activist groups. They invite law enforcement and the military to join their little coup.

How could I have interpreted that as insurrection?

Silly me...

I call Godwin's Law on Marshall Neal, Devil's Advocate, and the rest of the Lefty posters...

Game over, CY wins by default.

Hey, all you leftist/communist/seditionist, when you promote an overthrow of our freely elected government in a time of war that is considered high treason and punishable by death.... mantis it's you and moron dumb a#$@s like you that put this country at risk. Hey, I'm sorry CA but I got to let it fly. Shitheads like this and their pals put my friends and family at risk. Do you think that Al Queda and others do not monitor these types of websites. This is what kind of idiot's that are produced from liberal colleges and universities. There is free speech and then there is this tripe. I live in the D.C area. please show up and when 3/4,s of the state of VA.,PA. & MD. shows up we'll be more than glad to show you and your friends a good time. P.S. please write your blood type on your shoe.... put SSN on your arm for identification. Because whether you believe it or not Main Stream America is tired of taking bullshit from the likes of you and your friends. The U.N. is the biggest violator of human rights on the planet your buddies rape and pillage at will with the blessings of the U.N. leadership. I for one wish we would get out of the U.N. and kick their asses out of our country. Because as an organization they are useless. You may not like G.W. thats fine. But I can't express how happy I am that Al(I invented the Internet)Gore and John ( I wrote myself up for three medals) Kerry are not our Commander in Chief.
So all you leftist whiners "PISS OFF"

Wow, CY, they came out from under the rocks for this post, didn't they? Sorry I was delayed until now.

When you Dhimmicrats come to the table with some viable ideas, we'll listen; and that does NOT include storming the White House. Until then, be mindful of the fact that we have not been attacked again.

Wow, to think if these Dimwhitted idiots lived in the countries so they desperatley want to be like, they would all be thrown in jail or executed for saying such things. Yet here we are in the US and its ok?? Just wondering whats its like to live life under a rock and then consider yourself the all knowing end all be all of human rights? I for one think let em come on out lets set up some gallows (need to save the cost of bullets you know since we're so broke) and hang them for treason!

Yeah, the call is to storm the WH with SIGNS! That sounds really seditious to me.

CY, Retired Navy, and Faithful Patriot, pee their pants every time the Dear Leader they so blindly adulate utters the word "terror". What a bunch of pathetic mamma's boys! They are so terrified, so cowardly, and insecure, that they need a "leader" to protect them...That's how Hitler gathered crowds of supporters in the late 30s: you can feed any old tripe to frightened losers, they'll swallow it.

Sedition, treason, my foot. While those clowns goosestep in unison for the benefit of their "Dear Leader", their "Dear Leader" is robbing the country blind, and channeling taxpayers' money (those morons' included) to the likes of Haliburton's executives, past, present, and future.

Nobody advocates throwing out this government violently. "Storming the WH" is a figure of speech. But again, the Bush robots have long ago lost the ability to think for themselves. Their brains have long ago dessicated to the size of a shriveled pea.

Idiots!

The Administration is Criminal and if they will not step down, we must storm in, show them how many of us do not accept a criminal government. How can we stand by and watch them kill our brothers, sisters, journalists and friends for their dollars?
Your right devils advocate where does it say they must storm in and show them how many of us do not accept a criminal government I must have over read that part?

Hmmm... someone's been doing laps in the Kool Aid pond i see. I've never said I agree with everything Bush has done, for the record I don't but this isn't what the post is about, it's about a bunch of unhinged on the left talking about storming the White House.

"Storm´ing
a. & n. 1. a. & n. from Storm, v.Storming party
(Mil.) a party assigned to the duty of making the first assault in storming a fortress. "

Let's just go with the "only wiht signs" meme. well, the Constitution does give the right to Peaceably assemble, however, this isn't exactly written out to be peaceful.

By the way, if you join them and "Storm" the WH. My money is on the Secret Service guys. It'll be the shortest coup attempt in history.

D.A the only thing that's shriveled is what you PEE WITH. Our young BRAVE men and women that protect US All deserve more respect than that. I know thats a term that you are probably unfamiliar with DUTY, HONOR, SACRAFICE. Why don't people like you that can't say anything good, just keep their mouths shut. See, all you are is a bag of hot air. Your groups always have the answer's but can never logically present them. What you don't relize is if your party was in office we would probably be attacked every other week. You on the left are so pathetic. You have to invent ways to try to bolster your position. All B.S. no substance. I served my counrty. DID YOU? I doubt it... When are the Dhimmacrats going to figure out that you can't hold hands and sing Kume by ya. with terrorists. We needed a leader to protect us. WELL, WE GOT ONE. At least he's not worried about if the new intern uses scothguard or not.

On the bad side:
Some folks can't seem to grasp that championing insurrection is illegal.

According to U.S. Code Title 18, Chapter 115, Section 2381. Treason:

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

The law is quite clear on this point; once we kill you for treason, you are no longer eligible for government employment.

But this is the section that most clearly applies.

According to U.S. Code Title 18, Chapter 115, Section 2383. Rebellion or insurrection.

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

I think this loon's manifesto, while not legally satisfying the definition of treason until further actions have been undertaken, certainly seem to meet the definition of someone that "incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof."

The again, Bush is Hitler, so who needs those silly old federal laws?

"storm the Whitehouse" uh - its called a metaphor - you might want to look it up.

"dimwhitted" and "desperatley" - 81 (age or i.q.?)learn to f***ing spell.

Nobody has a problem with "brave young men and women" you moron, we have a problem with the cowardly, draft-dodging, lying sack of manure shit-for-brains who got us into Iraq after ignoring the advice of the uniform services, to wit: George "AWOL" Bush, Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney, and Donald "Dumbass" Rumsfeld.

RL,
Boy it takes a real man to use such big words, I know I dont type well see I dont sepnd all day drooling over a computer screen thinking of how bad Bush. I instead spend my days defending sorry asses like you so you have the right to blurt out your bullshit for all to hear.
Oh jack ass by the way the 81 is the unit number of my first unit in the military.

Sorry CY but that guy pushed me over the edge

The right-wing posters here fall below the level needed for a rational response.

They're simply unhinged.

I could take apart the few arguments that escape their rabid foam for example:

Al Gore invented the internet: that old one? It's an embarrassment to the right, not the left.

Gore was successful in being a leader among leaders to make the funding of the internet's development something he was among the furthest ahead on in Congress, if not the furthest among them all. Not to mention he never even said the misquoted text of the poster.

It's the frothing right who can't use the common sense and try to argue the nonsensical here.

Had Eisenhower said the same thing about 'taking the initiative in the creation of the federal highways', the right wing's version would say he lied because he didn't personally pour all the cement. It's a *lie* how the right misquotes Gore and misrepresents his admirable work.

Number 2 example - the 'we'd probably be attacked every other week under democrats' claim.

Utterly irrational lie. Clinton developed a war plan against Al Queda after the Cole bombing in 2000 was shown to be done by them, and out of courtesy did not go to war but handed it to Bush - who shelved it and made anti-terrorism a low priority for his first 9 months.

But it keeps the right-wing cultists believing their lies.

But apart from the specifics, it's just irrational spewing, not subject for discussion.

DA I feel slighted. You were irresponsibly disrespectful to CY, Retired Navy and Faithful Patriot, but left me out.

I'm curious, DA, how many years, months, weeks, minutes? have you spent actively defending this country you love? For all the damage the right is doing to this country, the voters just keep coming our way. Guess they are hearing your message after all - AND REJECTING IT!

I spent 31 years defending your right to speak out, and it has been worth every minute. Your bitter hatred is driving more voters to the right of center than we could've ever hoped for. Keep up the good work. It won't be much longer before you will become the party of extinction.

Oh, and the insanity of the right could hardly be more clearly shown than when they, in this thread, try to turn what is obviously a peaceful protest - BRING YOUR SIGNS - into some sort of thing it's not, an armed insurrection.

I hate to tell you, but saying you would like to see the criminals in government put in jail is not an armed insurrection. It's called freedom of speech.

Now, if they were saying something really violent, such as arguing that 'the tree of liberty is watered with the blood of patriots' and that 20 years should not go by without blood being spilled to keep liberty healthy -

Oh wait, Thomas Jefferson is the traitor who said that.

Wait a minute.
THAT pushed you over the edge, 81?
Christ, take a step back, because that was entirely too easy.
Maybe, you're just a bit on edge already because your commander in chief is putting profits and personal relationships in front of the security of our nation? Yeah, that might be it.
You've got to be getting tired of explaining to everybody why they're wrong about what a total douchebag that guy is.
You sound like an intelligent adult, 81, so tell me, would you buy a used car from George Bush?
I didn't think so.
Next issue- working together in 2008.

Rober Lewis, how many minutes have you spent in military uniform?

Craig, where's your brilliant ideas? I don't want counter arguments; I want viable ideas and solutions. Your ideology has been consistantly devoid of such.

Blue Parrot,

Nice absence of substance; where's the ideas? Socialism is NOT the answer; neither is giving away the farm.

Old Soldier, thanks for your service.

I will use the freedom to say what I like, and if you have a problem with that, too bad. I'd rather you NOT serve if your service does not include the right for others to tell you you're completely wrong.

As for your claims of how hatred is driving people to the right:

Get a clue. First, have you seen the pools? The majority is AGAINST the people in power.

Second, you misattribute the support they do have: the republicans have co-opted groups, especially the corporate by selling out the public interest (pay up, and write your own legislation - heck, we'll put your own lobbyist in charge of regulating you) - and religious groups by pandering to them and convincing them they're persecuted, to get their votes.

Third, You aren't getting the votes you think you are - it's a fact that Gore had more votes than Bush in 2000, and it's unarguable that he was the people's choice even in the electoral system, when you look at the issues such as the butterfly ballot that caused thousands of Gore votes to go to Buchanan in a race officially decided by 537 votes.

And finally, the hatred is from the right. The left loves the world and the US, and is fighting against the corruption and attacks on our great country by the snake oil salesmen who have hikacked so-called conservatism, duping the easily misled.

OS,
Thank you for your 31 years of service, but I've got a question:
How many times did you question authority in those 31 years?
Can you count them on one hand?
That's called a lack of critical thinking skills.
Now, that's what makes the military work, but it is totally at odds with what makes democracy thrive. Our leaders must be questioned at every instance, because their men, no better and in some cases actually worse than you and me.
No offense meant, but your background doesn't lend your argument any additional weight.
BP

BP,
Yes I would and drive it quite comfortably see I was sent off the coast of Iraq so many times when Clinton was in office bit nothing was done, the one time we thought he had some balls he tell Saddam comply or we will bomb you, oh yeah we loaded the aircraft were ready to launch and the dealine came and went, we were put on a hold so Saddam could rethink. Come on are you kidding me we drew and line in the sand and walked away form it. See I was there so this isnt right or left wing BS this is truth.
Dont question my service I have served for both Dem's and Rep's and have not waivered in any way.
One last thing to say here I love the way all the Dem's say Bush is so bad then how in the hell did he get voted back into office. If we all hate him and his a a "douche bag" how did he stay in office?
Craig the article clearly states we must storm in and show them. Now does that sound peaceful to you?

To Confederate Yankee: The real oxymoron is the term "Conservative Christian."

Old Soldier, you say the left lacks ideas. You are wrong.

That's a right-wing parrot point for its minions, and you swallowed it whole.

The first thing we need to do is to get rid of the criminals in power, so that the left's ideas are relevant, not just words on paper - so that's why you will see the left talk against the right to get voters opposing them.

But the left is the idea party, not the right.

Consider all the great accomplishments in the last century, and who was responsible? The left.

Women voting? The end of child labor and dangerous workplaces with 12 hour 6 day weeks? The minimum wage? The civil rights movement for races, for women, for the disabled? Supporting public education being more widely available, for less cost? Putting a man on the moon?

You pick it and the left did it mostly. I'll give a few exceptions - Ike and federal highways.

There are books and books and books filled with the left's constructive plans.

I can list many of them here, but you wouldn't read them, so why waste the time?

But just for others, or to prove the point, read recent books by James Carville.

Tons of specific positive suggestions for policy.

OS,
[Laughing] Blue Parrot... You GOPhers and your command of puns. Just amazing!

Whoo, that's good stuff.
Hey, would it make you feel better if every time you called a liberal or Democrat or progressive a "commie" or a "Socialist", you were in turn called a "Fascist"? It's as true as your statement.
BP

Just a quick question:

When someone talks about the "War on Poverty" (admittedly, an old term) do you imagine troops strafing soup kitchen or gov't cheese lines? Next thing you know you'll want Operation "Enduring Freedom" to bring freedom (of the enduring sort) to the Middle East!?! How's that going, anyway?

Neo-cons throw the word "treason" around so much it will soon lose all of its meaning. So far today, I've read right-wing "treason" screeds against the NYT, Joe Biden, and now, war protestors. Meanwhile, Halliburton gets to bilk the American taxpayer for millions (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/27/international/middleeast/27contract.html?amp;en=8930bc6384bc57a9&ei=5094&hp=&ex=1141102800&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print) yet Dick Cheney is not only free to walk around, but apparently to shoot people with absolutely no repercussions whatsoever. It's called "war profiteering" people, and it's really against the law!

81, yes storm in and shows them sounds peaceful, because common sense says exactly what the plan is: 'storm' Washington to protest by carrying signs.

It takes an amazing level of craziness to interpret their plan as armed revolt.

You really need to think about how wrong you are to argue the point.

One of us will be proven right in March - either it'll be a protest without armed revolt, or it'll be a heck of a news story. I've no doubt you will be the one left to face being wrong.

Though you will likely just say they changed their minds because of Bush's leadership.

How anybody can read that overwrought hyperbolic invitation for a protest and interpret it as an insurrection is beyond me. They're planning to show up with signs. Do you honestly think anyone can literally "storm" the White House with SIGNS?
I went to the UPFJ website, because I had no idea what it was, and what I discovered was that first, there is a disclaimer above this notice that events listed are not necessarily endorsed or oganized by UPFJ, and second, that on their calendar, this event is described as a "peaceful event." So those of you concerned that a handful of sign-wielding protesters are an actual threat to the government, or even to anyone in the vicinity of the White House on March 15 can rest assured. No overthrow of the government is being called for here. Just a protest. With lots of hyperbole.

81,
"How did Bush get re-elected?"
Simple, 81.
Half of the country just isn't paying any GD attention,
OR, they're voting because they fell for the "Jesus told me so" bullsh!t,
OR, they thought that a guy who was so coked up that he couldn't take his DODMERB exam was a better choice for a POTUS than a guy who went to Nam and then had the audacity to speak his mind when he got back.
Does that clear it up for you?
-BP

United States Code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385

§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Release date: 2005-08-03

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

"Nobody advocates throwing out this government violently. "Storming the WH" is a figure of speech."

So these are figures or speech too?

-"We need your help to end the reign of international criminals"

-"It is our duty and the duty of the United Nations to rescue the people of the world from the U.S. dictators."

-"Remove the traitors..."

Here's the deal. Either the kooks really want to violently overthrow the government by "storming the White House" and "ending the reign", "rescuing the world from the U.s. dictators" and "removing the traitors"... or they're just a bunch of whining pansies that think sit-ins and picketing will cause such a crushing blow to the morale of the President that he'll step down in shame and hand the keys to a bunch of unbathed socialists.

This is why I'm not worried should the lefty kooks ever threaten civil war. Can you imagine the scene if a bunch of hippies with signs charged 2nd Amendment-loving conservatives?

You liberals/socialists/communists are a friggin' joke.

I have truly failed.

Jason,
You have a daunting command of stereotypes. All the pervert commies (who happen to be American citizens and probably include some of your own family members) shake in their boots from your awesome rhetorical skills. You are a total tough-ass.
Well done, sir. That'll learn'em.

No, Jason, you are the joke.

You are so manipulated to support others' interests over your own that you don't even see how you are falling for it. They make you look at phony issues, and distract you from real issues, and you thank them. *Sucker*. P. T. Barnum was right.

You identify yourself as a 'loyal American', all the while doing so under the Bush/republican banner that represents the great harming of the United States.

Under the people YOU vote for, the US has lost immense international power and prestige with probably every other nation, has seen the citizenry harmed by gross selling out of the public interest to special interest donors, has seen corruption between government and corporations skyrocket, has seen the debt explode to pay all these special interests off, has weakened our system of democracy, the ability of the public to oversee its government with all the secrecy, on and on.

You are supporting the people who harm our great country, and you are seduced by the 'right' cult.

It's not about your childish nonsense of hippies trying an armed revolt.

It's about the things above - the very notion of the public having the power to rule its own nation that's in danger, as this radical movement undermines democracy.

If this "dangerous and seditious" protest is what it takes to get you over-wrought, you wouldn't last a week in DC during protest flier season.

Yeah, Craig, before Bush won in 2000, islamofascists loved America, liberals loved conservatives and we were all singing kumbaya around worldwide campfires.

Why don't go plant a flower in the name of peace and leave the real defense of this country to the grownups.

But please don't call me when the phony issue shows up at your doorstep to behead you for being an infidel, despite your praise and tolerance of his warped sense of religion and your tinfoil fear of government conspiracies and evil corporations.

You are right about the public having the power to rule its own nation... and 60,000,000+ of us did so in November, 2004. The fact you guys can't get over it says a lot.

And the fact that our government can still fully function in the face of the Lefts' irrational behavior since shows just how damned well our democratic republic works.

The fact that our great democracy still functions even as the POTUS is "talking with God" and the VP is totally beholden to a huge company like Haliburton, with his "deferred salary" and $millions in options, goes to show how robust the institution is.
Grownups, huh Jason? Are those the same type of grownups that fantasize about mowing down a charging line of unarmed hippies.
You infantile jackass. Shame on you.
Now, go back to your video games, or better yet, read a history book.

The fact that you are so totally unaware of the price you and the rest of the public is paying shows how the democracy is NOT working, Jason. Your fear of the terrorists which leads you to not institute the rational protections we need, but instead lead you to bizarre fantasies about head choppers showing up at your door and supporting evil, corrupt people to lead the country are the problem.

You're in a dream world, correction, a nightmare world.

Hopefully you will someday develop some critical thinking skills, and use them to get informed, and learn how you're being manipulated against your own interests, and stop being one of the '60 million' who screwed up so badly this last time.

But I will agree with you that the fact that Al Gore got more votes, and was the clear choice of the people in 2000, does speak well to the health of our democracy.

You must be proud, though, that the right has gained in power by co-opting the racists since 1968, when the 'southern strategy' flipped the key votes in the south from democrat to republican by using 'code phrases' to show the republicans opposed all these 'equal rights'.

Since we're all on the subject, maybe one of you fine Republican-Americans can explain to us commies why the GOP has a hard-on for voting machines that give absolutely no verifiable paper receipt whatsoever. None. No way to make sure there isn't a bug in the system.
Absolutely against the idea of verification, like they're trying to hide something.
Why is that, again?
Is it because you love democracy so much, or is it a "Faith-based initiative"?

But wait, BP, I thought you guys knew a "figure of speech" when you saw one.

Your conspiracy theories about Bush's faith and Cheney's FORMER occupation are typical of the rabid, mindless left in this country. I'm sure the same brain you use to deconstruct Cheney's salary doesn't quite do the same math for the wealth amassed by Kerry, Kennedy, the Clintons or any other liberal in the stratosphere of the "wealthiest one percenters". The "machine" you refer to is called capitalism and it's a damn fine machine. As long as you keep your socialism and communism the hell away from it.

Jason,
You ignorant slut. (See? I do know about a figure of speech)
Cheney is still receiving payment from Haliburton. He still owns options that he will make millions on.

Does that sound like a "former occupation" to you? Do you have former employers still sending you checks? Other than the hush money from your sexpeddling days with Jeff Gannon, that is...

See, it's not a conspiracy theory, if the damned IRS reports it. Just because you're uninformed on the subject, doesn't make the subject invisible. Kinda like the Dem's not having any plans- No, they have them, you're just ignorant of them.

Talk about mindless, you're the f'ing posterboy, Jason.

Wow!!!!!! It sure is easy to stir up the pattiotic juices of 101 fighting keyboarders, yup, yup those war protesters are gunna storm the WH and pillage and rape Scot oops Laura. They should be shot, tried for treason, whatever -if you can do that bring it on, KBR has been building holding facilities all over for an "immigration emergency". But you can't and you know why -"cause WE are the majority that's why and this government can't afford to imprison that many of the people who really pay taxes. So, if one of these red goppers shows up and actually hurts someone does that mean CY can be tried inciting a crime, I think the Patriot Act allows for something like this or would that only apply to those against the war.
Hey guys that's the GOP the passive-aggresive ports gambit is going well, for quit while your ahead.

What conspiracy theories about Bush's faith?

The man has said he learned how to seduce the Christian vote during his father's senate campaign, and he's used those skills to continue to get support for his campaigns, by pandering and convincing the Christians they're victims and threatened.

What conspiracy theories about Cheny and Halliburton?

We have a huge problem with the revolving door between government that's support to represent the public interest OVER private interests, and the corporate interests who love to get that oversight not to occur, with cushy positions offered and such.

Go read the news, and see the recent examples where some former private sector people admit that one of the first things they'd do it make it clear to the government people that nice things awaited them soon.

But the right, in its cultish behavior, can't see the problem - they blindly support 'the right'. Not that this is only a problem of the right; it exists on the left too, but less so, and without the blind ignoring of it.

Cheney was hired as CEO of Halliburton because of his ability to get them business. He did: their government work increased hundreds of percent. Why is that - is it all legitimate? Does anyone in the right cult care?

These people know that they can take care of each other. We need strong separation of the two - such as Kerry's plan to require a five year waiting period before government people go to companies they had public responsibilities with - one of the 'ideas' the left has.

I don't know if Cheney has any more relationship with Halliburton than the fixed, deferred income.

But I do see that Halliburton is getting these billions in no-bid contract dollars, and that they are terribly over-billing the American taxpayers.

Funny, the right hates 'government waste', but as long as it's the government causing the taxpayers' money to be wasted into the pockets of the private sector's corrupt people, then it's fine with them.

You make unsupported, baseless, nonsensical charges Jason. Enjoy your cult.

First of all all you folks should take a valium,

I consider myself to the right of Temujin and I gotta tell you that George is doing a lot wrong and if the cretins on the left want to overthrow him that is fine with me.

Makes it a lot easire to round them up and ship them out. I get to shoot a few in the process.

On the other had I suggest you folks stop reading the constitution and reread the Declaration of Independence again.Especially that second paragraph.

I am not quite sure we are there yet but Leaving our borders un-secure and outsourcing our work sure helps.

I leave you with this. How is signing a trade treaty free market capitalism?

I mean if wages are based on supply and demand. that means with out illegal immigration the wage would rise to meet the demand. Free markets mean govt stays out and not signs treaties.

By the way both Al Gore and Kerry are guilty of treason and sedition. Al Gore commits it regularly.

"Cheney is still receiving payment from Haliburton. He still owns options that he will make millions on."

Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998. Do you know what "deferred compensation" means? It means he already earned it...

And about his stock options. He has pledged to give after-tax proceeds of the stock options to charity. This means he will donate the money, AFTER PAYING TAXES THEREON OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET, to charity. He will not "earn millions", the charities will. In fact, since he's paying taxes on the money as well, he's actually going to be losing some on those exercised options.

Ever tried to research your conspiracy theories before spouting them off in public?

and you're calling me ignorant?

"The fact that you are so totally unaware of the price you and the rest of the public is paying shows how the democracy is NOT working, Jason. Your fear of the terrorists which leads you to not institute the rational protections we need, but instead lead you to bizarre fantasies about head choppers showing up at your door and supporting evil, corrupt people to lead the country are the problem. You're in a dream world, correction, a nightmare world."

I was on a plane over Baltimore on 9/11/01. I had friends and business associates killed in both the WTC and the Pentagon. It's hardly a fantasy to me.

"But I will agree with you that the fact that Al Gore got more votes, and was the clear choice of the people in 2000, does speak well to the health of our democracy."

Do you guys think that incessantly repeating this crap will somehow turn the clocks back and change the outcome?

We're not a democracy. We're a democratic republic. The fact Gore stole enough votes to give the appearance of a popular win is irrelevant, and has been since the introduction of the electoral college system. The first we complaints we start hearing about the EC system being "flawed" is when the leftwingers lose an election. Big surprise.

"You must be proud, though, that the right has gained in power by co-opting the racists since 1968"

I wouldn't know about co-opting racists as I don't live in West Virginia and am unable to vote for Robert Byrd or any other Democrats who filibustered the civil rights act.

But hey, thanks for trying to switch topics so abruptly... I was starting to see how negatively you guys were being impacted by facts.

You're frothing again Jason.

The fact you knew people killed on 9/11 is sad - and adds zero of the credibility to your opinions on our policies which you think that it adds. I sympathize on a personal level, and don't let you milk it on a political level.

Your very style in posting is terrible - you ignore the points you are least able to answer, and attempt to cherry pick the few you think you can defend, rather than listening for where you might be wrong. Bad for you, bad for the readers.
But you're even weak on the issues you pick.

You can spew more than I care to answer, but that doesn't make it more than spewing garbage.

But I'll again pick a couple examples.

You allege that Gore's margin of victory can be entirely accounted for by his stealing votes.

Evidence? You present none. Complete crap.

And to any rational, informed person, it's clear that Gore won the *electoral* election too, in terms of how people intended to vote. Even Pat Buchanan admits this, as the recipient of the 'butterfly ballot' votes. There were many other ways the people's choice was thwarted.

You ask if it's repeated to change the outcome? No, just to note the truth, which *we* value.

On the 1968 southern strategy:

Let me say this slowly for you.

There were racists in the south. They opposed the civil rights act. They had voted as democrats for a long time, rooted way back when democrats were the opposition to Lincoln, who they were mad at for helping blacks then. But times changed and the democratic party became the party leading the fight for civil rights, because it was right, at their own political expense.

Look at the votes on the 1964 civil rights bill. The group highest in favor: non-southern democrats (led by their democratic president, who fought for the bill's passage). The group most opposed? Southern politicians - who were democrats.

And those same racists who were democrats before, were targetted by the republican party in the 1968 'southern strategy', which as I said involved sending 'coded messages' to the racists so as not to be held accountable by the rest of the country, to get their support, and it worked.

It's a matter of history; the strategy was designed by Nixon's campaign head, Kevin Phillips, who I've met, and who by the way has since renounced the republican party because of the direction it's taken under the Bushes.

The democratic party gets the credit for pushing the civil rights bill through (the republicans get some secondary credit for not uniting against it). The bad guys are the southerners who voted against the bill, their party and their president - and then becamee republicans who are responsible for the national shift from democratic to republican presidents. You must be proud.

Just because I don't spend the next 4 hours educating you on every little topic you feel the need to bring up, doesn't mean I'm lacking in skill, knowledge or credibility.

"You allege that Gore's margin of victory can be entirely accounted for by his stealing votes. Evidence? You present none. Complete crap."

I'm sure you one of the tens of people who think the fact that Gore's campaign manager was the son of the Chicago Mayor that orchestrated Kennedy's questionable victory in 1960.

The first recount demanded by Gore went to Bush. So did the second, hand recount. So Gore's team began trying to change the definition of "votes" and "voter intent". To say nothing of the numerous ballots spoiled by simple handling of them for weeks. Gore supporters never seemed a single bit concerned about the thousands of chads that littered the floors of the recount centers. Democrats even continued to recount long after the decision was final and still Bush won. All this in the face of Gore tossing thousands of military overseas ballots and the networks declaring Gore the winner before polls closed in the panhandle of Florida, where Bush would've certainly picked up a larger majority of votes than Gore.

Of course, we've also two other elections since then, including another presidential election and instead of Americans revolting from the "stolen election"... the President won re-election and his party actually made GAINS in Congress. So now you guys shift focus from alleging election theft and blame it on "60+ million dumb voters".

I'm sure after this November you'll have a new line to toe.

words are magically disappearing when posting...

that last post should read:

I'm sure you are one of the tens of people who think the fact that Gore's campaign manager was the son of the Chicago Mayor that orchestrated Kennedy's questionable victory in 1960 was just a coincidence.

Jason, you seem to have caused the water level to rise with all the progressive liberal tears of whining that are hitting the comment stream.

Did you realize all the significant accomplishments of the last century were because of progressive socialists, eh, I mean liberals? I wasn't aware there was a sniveler, eh, I mean Dhimmicrat in the WH when the Cold War ended. We did get credit for the interstate highway system, though. Wasn't that benevolent of our Dhimmicrat commenters? I guess Ike, Patton, MacCarther, Marshall and all the rest of the fine Generals of WWII were liberals, too. I guess Ike must have switched parties after the war, heh?

It is sad to realize that the party of JFK is gone; hijacked by progressive socialists intent on losing elections. And doing a dang fine job, too.

I don't recall the last time I've seen so much liberal dribble in one location. CY must have his BS filter turned off.

Uh, I believe it was Eisenhower, a great Republican, who warned us so thoughtfully about the rise of the military industrial complex. He is rolling over in his grave when GWB likens his bogus war to WWII.

Anyone who thinks a bunch a bleeding heart protestors are actually going to storm the whitehouse when they say thats what they are going to do in a protest recruitment email is a BIG DUMMY. Y'ALL repub hicks are jist a buncha BIG DUMMIES! Git yer high school diplomas and come back to the table when you can think gooder!

Jason, what you lack isn't the time to answer the question. You lack the facts to back up your phony claim, and you lack the intellectual honesty to say that instead of making up an excuse about time.

But you do go on to offer some case for your claim that Gore 'stole' his majority.

Your first point: someone in his campaing was the son of someone who was involved in a corrupt election 40 years ago. Wow, that's solid proof that there was fraud by Gore of that magnitude.
To you, anyway, but not to anyone with the ability to seperate nonsense from logic.

Your second point: Gore opposed the introduction of some military votes which were illegally to count because of the postmark requirements not being met. First, these were not enough to begin to erase his majority. Second, that's not him stealing votes: it's him following the law.

You might have a beef with the military not collecting votes in a timely manner, but that's a far cry from Gore stealing votes, and goes nowhere in proving your claim.

You go on with one of the most inaccurate recountings (pun intended) of the 2000 election vote counting I've ever seen - for just one example, the fact that the Florida State Supreme Court had ordered the recount appears nowhere in your telling, only Gore's lawyers, who apparently took over the election offices - maybe they stormed them in one of these armed revolts you see everywhere. Oh wait, it was the *republicans* who flew GOP staffers from Washington to Florida, who literally did riot to try to disrupt the lawful vote counting - another fact you fail to mention.

Having then failed to utterly make any case for your claim, you move on to putting words in my mouth about such things as what I would say after the next election if democrats lose - because you don't argue with reason, you argue as someone who just makes things up.

The righties are sure predictable - stupid name calling, for example, fill their posts, filling the vacuum created by a lack of having any idea what they're talking about.

For example, we then get treated to 'old soldier's inane 'water level' comment.

All he proves, as always with such things, is his own inability to say something relevant.

He sort of parrots back the same thing I said but disagreeing, just without much on why.

His only fact appears to be that the generals who led WWII were not all liberals - which not only has nothing to do with the point of discussion about the *elected* officials, particularly presidents, but misses the irony that it was a democratic president in office.

And he continues to show his impressive ignorance with the all too common whine by the right about the 'good old days of demoracts like JFK'. What they don't realize of course is that the right has simply been unable to demonize JFK, and so they try to hijack him.

They'll take a couple of facts out of context - his support for a strong military, his tax cut - and mistake them for agreeing with their policies, unaware of his main policies, and why those prove no such thing.

For example, JFK built up the military at a far different time in US history, at the peak of the cold war when our needs were far different; and republicans were generally horrified by Kennedy's economic policies, as he was a student of why limited deficits were a good idea, using spending to stimulate the economy - very successful policies at odds with the republicans.

Things you fail to note - and I can only pick a small sampling - include his standing up to big business in the interest of the country, such as with the steel companies ("My father used to tell me all businessmen were pricks, but I never believeed him until now.") His programs to greatly increase federal aid for the poor, to increase social security, to increase government medical programs, to be the first president in a century to launch a big battle for civil rights (and the progress before him was largely another democrat, Truman), his attempts to end the cold war with the Soviet Union by pursuing peaceful co-existence against the strong opposition of the right (see his June 10, 1963 American University speech for very liberal, dovish views which Pravda printed in full and Kruschev called the greatest American speech in decades), his refusing constant demands by the Pentagon for combat troops in Viet Nam, his fights against colonialism by our European allies (reversing republican policy) and for economic reforms in South America for the poor against the wealthy - and many more.

All of this is against your right-wing ideology - and he was a great president, not your type.

You uneducated cons need to quit listening to Rush Limbaugh and open your eyes to the lies. We are no longer living in a free country. It may seem like one to the untrained eye, but to progressives such as myself it's just like Nazi Germany. Only instead of sending Jews to the gas chambers, Bush is giving tax cuts to the rich. In the end, they both have the same outcome - millions of people dead in New Orleans because of a racist federal government indifferent to the plight of inner city blacks.

Well enough is enough. No more half measures. No more vainly trying to convince the useless American idiots to join together with the useful ones and vote us into power. No more typing "now" in lowercase letters! We must act NOW to save our democracy by throwing out the unelected fascist occupiers of the White House and having the Political Cooperative appoint new ones. They will remain in power only until after the purge, and will cross their hearts and hope to die if it isn't so. For Martin, Coretta, George, Weezy, Lionel, and the rest of the cast of The Jeffersons - we will not allow the murdering Slaveholder Nazi Plutocrat Conquistadors to destroy any more innocent lives without the assistance of a licensed physician!

And by "we", I mean "you". I'll be watching the riots from the balcony of my condo.

Boy, that was weak satire, 'Liberal Larry', too weak for any more substantive response.

I guess to do it justice someone could mirror it with 'why we must invade Canada to get rid of WMD', 'it may look like an ally to the untrained eye, but to the wingnut, it's clearly a threat', but why?

Liberal Larry..you said:

"Only instead of sending Jews to the gas chambers, Bush is giving tax cuts to the rich."

You are insane.When you can equate tax cuts to exterminating Jews, you have not only gone insane but have gone into a very dark place known as Bush Derangement Syndrome.

When you believe such idiocy Larry..and when you write such idiocy you reveal yourself to be a complete loon and you demean every Jewish person murdered by the Nazis you sick and bitter man.

Google gas chamber and take a look at the pictures you fool.

I pity you.

"...the overthrow of a democratically-elected United States government..."

When did you get one of those?

Tara,

You need to be able to recognize satire when confronted with it, very poor satire at that. You see Liberal Larry is anything but! He is a conservative trying to be funny! Ha! What a satirical genius! To be expected from conservative too dumb to see how similar Bush is to facists. Unjust wars based on lies and ex post justifications and spying on your citizens is a good start. And blaming the Semites to justify a money grab by military industrial war machine is downright similar to ol' adolph.

Tara, I read his post as an attempt at satire, but a weak one because it showed he misunderstand the liberal position. *Millions* killed in New Orleans?

There was a sliver of truth: the republican policies are killing people. Because it's not bullets in their head, it's easily ignored, but it's true.

BTW, I define Bush derangement syndrome as supporting him in a cult-like fashion.

Which is about the only way left at this point.

Hahaha! A bunch of hippie punks threaten to "storm the White House"; now you have to admit this is funny. I wish the hell they would try to overthrow the government, because I'm sick and tired of their stupid rhetoric. Do something, start the revolution, please start your fricking revolution, you potheads.

Pothead? I oppose the use of marijuana.

(I favor looking at decriminalization for many reasons, but oppose its use).

But our revolution is started, fought with words, to overcome the corruption of the right.

It's only aimed at the masses on the right insofar as helping them get 'un-fooled'.

Rather, it's aimed at preventing the selfish bastards who would destroy our democracy for selfish gain, to strengthen our systems to protect from corruption, and to help citizens be better informed and therefore vote out the criminals.

Hey, most Americans opposed the revolution against England at first, too.

Turns out they were short-sighted, though not as much as the right wing today.

Just as I thought, nothing but a bunch of whining cowards. If you at least had the guts to do something, I could at least admire you for being a man. Luckily, we didn't have to depend on people of your ilk to gain our independence.

Yes, you did.

It's people like you who didn't get democracy and fought for the King.

More blather from the right - just pathetic.

Yes, Jesusland, I wonder who would have been the one to stand up to aristocracy and domination by executive power. Progressives who feared and hated the exercise of irrational authority, or the conservatives who wanted to preserve the status quo?Your inorance is laughable. And luckily because progressive people with a soul have stood up to reactionary conservative types, women, and minorities vote and contribute to society, the elderly have some dignity as they grow old, and poor people don't have to rot on the street id they don't want to. But Conservatives have done great things too. Like wage war.
God is dead Jesusland, and you have killed him.

Folks, this post has devolved into little more than each side calling the other names, without much more of substance being said.

Bring it back on topic: Is this called for protest legal or illegal?

If we can't get back to this, I'll be forced to lock the thread.

"Is this called for protest legal or illegal?"

Legal. The language used in organizing the protest is just very rhetorically charged as you would find with many far left/right demonstrations.

They won't be doing anything illegal but protesting. If they do there are police that can handle it, I'm sure.

I've read that political discourse these days is highly emotional and lacking in logic and rationality - this thread is a perfect example. Nobody has made any decent insight about anything, instead attacking and insulting total strangers.

Lame.

(of course as a lefty i have to add the comment about gunning down hippies is just sheer stupidity - get some help, man)

Yes, yes, CY, the Left always wins the name-calling game, but they have nothing. I have no fear of them, and neither should you. They are about as likely as a snowball in hell to try to "storm the WH". A sorrier bunch of humanity has never existed.

Yankee you probably should have closed it a long time ago.

Liberals are the biggest hypocrites in the world and will never change until the ship starts to sink.

ON the other had us republicans etc will probably have to buy or lease that ship back from someone else just to get back on board so we can jump ship before they do.

Be Well

Craig, the butterfly ballot (designed by democrats) caused Algore to lose the election by giving votes to Pat Buchanon?????

Well how about the people who actually did push those chads out for Pat Buchanon? Do they have any responsibility for their vote? The butterfly ballot WAS used in previous elections and we did not hear of any problems!

The rules have ALWAYS been that the president is elected by the Electoral College. Algore lost, he couldn't even win his own home state! Get over it!

So when was the last time a major presidential candidate didn't win his own home state?

I think we're about talked out on this one.

Thread locked.