April 21, 2008
CCH Help (Last Time, I Swear)
So back on February 1, I solicited advice from you regarding a good CCH handgun, and after reading your responses, talking to various people I know offline, and hours of scouring the Web for scraps of information, I made a decision.
Well, that decision lasted all of about two minutes when I went to my local gun shop this past Friday afternoon and asked to owner to place my order. He asked a very simple question
"So, are you looking for an actual carry pistol, or are you looking for something that will spend most of it's time in the car or at the range?"
I'd always planned on actually carrying the weapon on my person where allowed, as a concealed lawyer was impractical and of dubious value in the event of a crime. I said the same.
He asked earnestly, "Can I show you something?"
He went to the display case, pulled out a variant of the Glock 23 I was thinking of ordering, along with the XD-subcompact that was my second choice, and then proceeded to show me how thick the two guns were both across the slide and through the grip.
He went on to tell me that both pistols are extremely reliable, but because of their thickness, my body type, and personal style of dress in North Carolina's long summers (flip-flops, shorts, and tee shirts), they will be difficult for me to carry concealed.
He then pulled out a Kahr CW, which was one of the guns I'd been looking at in my original list of possibilities. It was much, much, more narrow, lighter, and generally far easier to hide than anything else on my list, though single-column magazines are more difficult to seat quickly.
As a larger alternative (but still not quite as thick as the Glock or XD), the Smith & Wesson M&P Compact has also been lurking in the background. Based in part on things I've read, the first-hand experiences I've heard from a local instructor who carries one, and the two free mags offered with a write-in $50 rebate, it is certainly attractive (and fits my hand well).
Being honest with myself, I think I'd like the XD and Glock better for range sessions and as a "car gun," but I also know that on quick runs to the grocery or drug store in the middle of the night, I'd be far more likely to grab a smaller, lighter, and more-easy-to-conceal pistol.
So what would you gun geeks recommend?
Should I go with the smaller, lighter, and easier to conceal Kahr CW-series, the Smith&Wesson M&P Compact, or should I go with the larger Glock or XD knowing I'm less likely it to carry it on more mundane trips?
Let me get your pros and cons on these, folks.
Later this week, one of these is coming home.
Update: or maybe not this week after all. I took my M1927 to a gunsmith to replace a broken extractor (it crapped out Saturday morning) and it's going to cost more than I thought to replace it, depleting my gun budget.
Meanwhile... Glenn Reynolds notes that University of Tennessee students are staging an empty holster protest of gun laws today as part of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.
Go with the gun you will carry all the time. That one time you don't have it with you is the time you'll really need it. As to Kahr vs. S&W, go with the gun with which you feel most comfortable shooting. Although seating a thinner single column magazine may be a bit more difficult than a thicker double-stacked mag, chances are the first mag will contain enough rounds to get you by. Just practice reloading so you can do it in the dark.
Posted by: Laddy at April 21, 2008 10:26 AMI am with Laddy. Also go with the gun you can pull out fastest. There I have no recomendation as I do not carry a gun and target shoot with much larger guns.
Posted by: David at April 21, 2008 10:33 AMSkinnier is better. Muy muy. If you get six rds of 9 in a single, that's fine and dandy.
Posted by: megapotamus at April 21, 2008 11:20 AMI love my Glock 19. I carry always. If you are going to have a carry permit and not carry ask yourself how you will explain to God, to people who need you, to yourself, why you didn't have it when you needed it. Worse how are you going to explain that to the gunny or ex-cop who taught your class.
My instructor told my class that only one of his students had ever been killed in a gun fight. The instructor said that his initial reaction was to feel sorry for the guy but that changed to anger and resentment when he contemplated the fact that the last that guy's seven year old daughter saw of him alive was bleeding out at her feet because he left his weapon in his sock drawer.
I too live in the south and find the baggy square cut shirts we wear in the summer perfect for concealed carry. I use a belly band a lot. I do admit that I will not carry it chambered right next to Little Elvis but unless I am wearing my Galco holster it never is chambered. I have a seven year old and I know he cannot operate the slide, not that he has access to my weapon, but it is another level of safety. An instructor will tell you I am not really armed because I need to chamber a round before I can fire. Consequently when I practice dry fire I always include chambering a round. It costs me a second, not ideal, but there it is.
I have one weapon only and I always know where it is, on me. That way if somebody breaks into my house when we are not home I am not putting a gun on the street. I find my Glock a perfect all purpose weapon. A little fat that is true but that is 16 rounds talking. If I am going to the bads (I do business in Memphis)I take an extra mag but for every day I figure 16 should do 'er. Any pistol that is slimmer has fewer rounds in so you end up carrying a spare.
I am here to tell you a 19 is easily concealable. Just last week, my little friend in place, I had an extended conversation with a fellow parishoner in the vegetable aisle at Kroger. She expounded on how it made her quake with fear to THINK that there might actually be someone carrying a handgun RIGHT HERE IN THIS STORE ready to go CRAZY at any second fighting over a parking spot or whatnot. I wanted to tell her, no, carrying is actually as soothing as slipping into a Calgon bath but....
By the by I appreciate your work. B
The question answers itself. If you plan to carry most of the time, they go with the gun you'd ACTUALLY CARRY. An available derringer is better than the Glock in the gun cabinet.
Note. You can always sell your carry gun and buy a bigger one after you've had practical experience in carrying.
Go with the one that is comfortable to YOU, both on your hip and in your hand. Me? At 5'8 and 185 lbs., I carry a Springfield Armory Micro-Compact in .45ACP on the hip AND a KelTec P3AT (.380ACP) either in my front pocket or in a wallet-holster year round. Long-tailed shirts or oversized t-shirts in the summer, of course.
As far as the width of the pistol, the Micro-Compact with a set of thin Aluma-Grips makes a nice slim carry package.
As Clint Smith says, "Your carry gun should be comforting, not comfortable." If you're taking the responsibility of carrying, expect to make some wardrobe changes. That includes ditching the flip flops for something that will allow you to quickly get off the X: You're a combatant now. Congratulations.
The Kahr is fine, but don't think for a minute that you can't find ways of concealing any of the others so don't make that your major decision making item. Like the rest of us, you'll probably end up with a half dozen useless holsters before you find the right one or two for you, but we all go through that. There is a good holster maker in Raleigh.
Posted by: karlj at April 21, 2008 06:05 PMWhy not both? Buy the one for the summer now and get the other one for heavier dress.
Posted by: Bodacious at April 21, 2008 08:21 PMLiving in Texas, I also deal with the concealibility issue. Ultimately, you must make your choice in terms balancing a number of factors. Among them are the size and weight of the handgun, your usual clothing choices, accuracy and ammunition capacity in relation to size, and a host of others.
Suffice it to say that if you are planning on carrying your weapon--and if you're going to the effort of obtaining a CCW permit you should plan to carry it whenever you venture forth (it's not a fashion accessory--your life could be in danger anywhere at any time), you must work out a system that will allow you to do it consistently.
If you are planning on carrying in an inside the waistband-type holster inside shorts, covering the handgun with only a polo shirt or something similar, you will indeed be limited to a very small and thin handgun. And in that method of carry, rust is a very real issue as the weapon will be in close contact with your body. Potential solution: a weapon like the new Ruger .380 ACP polymer pistol. However, it has real drawbacks such as poor sights, small magazine capacity, and limited accuracy. Or, go for a stainless steel Walther PP. Very thin, very small, corrosion resistant, reasonably accurate with reasonable sights. Again, small magazine capacity. But the ultimate problem with guns in this size range is usually a weak cartridge and few of them. The .380 ACP that both weapons fire is the absolute smallest cartridge that one should consider for a carry gun. And if you're really that concerned by tenths of an inch in width, etc., you certainly will not be carrying a spare magazine or magazines, will you?
Yet you'd better. The magazine is almost always the potential weak link in a semiautomatic pistol. If the magazine malfunctions, you have a very clumsy and expensive single shot handgun. It is folly, no matter how expensive and realiable the handgun, not to carry at least one additional magazine for a semiautomatic pistol.
My solution may work for you. I carry a Glock 26 (9mm--10 round magazines) with two extra magazines, and I carry it virtually year round in a black nylon "fanny pack" holster system. I use the unit manufactured by Uncle Mike's which comes in several sizes, and has extra space for the mags and handgun and other goodies as well. With the fanny pack, clothing issues no longer matter, and I can carry a highly effective, reliable weapon that is still small and lightweight, yet is virtually corrosion proof, and has more than sufficient magazine capacity and power.
I've made two modifications, one to the fanny pack and one to the handgun. Using medium weight suede leather and my wife's good quality sewing machine, I made a mag pouch that allowed the mags to sit upright like a good belt holster pouch in the same velcroed pocket as the handgun. I sewed velcro to the back of the pouch, so it's easy to position. When I strip open the hangun pocket, spare mags are also available, but are held in place by the friction of the leather.
The second modification is a Crimson Trace laser sight. I'm 54 years old now, and while the Glock has good sights, and my eyesight is still reasonably good, it's not as sharp as it once was, and the laser is perhaps the best accuracy aid (to say nothing of training aid--you can see every flinch, jerk, bit of heeling, etc.) on the market. Yes, it made the gun a bit thicker, but in the fanny pack, it doesn't matter at all.
I was a bit worried initially that wearing a fanny pack would attract all kinds of attention, but they're so ubiquitous that it's never been an issue.
Get the Glock and go with a fanny pack. If you're going to be dressing more formally, you can always use an inside the belt holster or other concealment holster and carry a spare mag or two under your coat. The Glock is simply a better gun than any other you've mentioned. Resist the temptation to buy a wide variety of guns. Get the Glock and work consistently with it. The most dangerous man is the man who own a single gun; he probably knows how to use it well.
Posted by: MIke at April 21, 2008 11:02 PMDress to the gun. One of the realiziations about carrying armed is that life is not as it once was. Instead of flip flops, running shoes or boat shoes. Buy the next size bigger shirt, or square cut shirts. How the gun hides is more a function of the holster than the gun. A summer special type belt holster or a belly band will hide a medium size gun very well. Go with the gun you're most comfortable with and dress around it.
Posted by: Mike V. at April 22, 2008 01:09 PMI've found an easily-concealable (hip pocket, if you desire) pistol that carries 8 rounds of 9X18 leaded goodness that is also almost damnfoolproof. The Sovs and their satellites produced the Makarov as the standard sidearm for their military and I just plain like it. It's also DA/SA. YMMV.
Posted by: The Old Man at April 23, 2008 05:37 AMI recently got the Kahr CW-40 because of its small / narrow size and the 40 caliber bang. I added a stick on "Clipdraw" and and real happy with it. I can hide it under a tee shirt. Here is a picture with the Clipdraw:
http://home.comcast.net/~chiledogproductions/kahr-cw-40-CD.jpg
God, I love my Kahr. I'm a cynical old bastard and found it real difficult to admit that one of them thar newfangled gun companies could outdo S&W or Colt but Kahr has done it. Get the all-stainless one - it balances better than the part plastic ones (yeah, I hate Glocks too, sorry guys).
The Kahr is *accurate*, too - my most important criterion (and why I like Sigs, too) - a really important factor with a 9mm, particularly when dealing with a meth-soaked piece of human garbage. The Kahr DA trigger is amazing - I need to take one apart completely sometime to see how they did it.
As a side note... I gave my wife a choice of 4 or 5 goblin-getters, and after shooting them all she took my Kahr (damn her hide, I had to go get another one for myself...)
