I know not what this Lt. Colonel attests to, but I believe I saw video of Obama shooting baskets with some U.S. soldiers in what was inferred as being in Afghanistan. Now I will have to search to see of it is on youtube.

Correction, Obama was in Kuwait shooting baskets. My mistake. I guess we will not know if Obama played basketball in Afghanistan as there were no cameras allowed.

I also recieved a similar letter from a soilder stating that Obama IGNORED the troops!

Correction, Obama was in Kuwait shooting baskets. My mistake. I guess we will not know if Obama played basketball in Afghanistan as there were no cameras allowed.

Clearly, one cannot vote either for or against Obama without knowing this critical fact.

At least post the full quote from the article. You left off this:

'"We were a bit delayed ... as he took time to shake hands, speak to troops and pose for photographs," Nielson-Green said.'

You did include this: "his arrival was kept secret for security reasons" but you seem to ignore it. If his visit to the base was nothing but a publicity stunt, why weren't all the troops alerted? Surely that would have made for better pictures.

WHY DIDN'T HE VISIT THE WOUNDED SOLDIERS IN GERMANY

What a lame excuse! Can't he go see the troops without his staff to hold his hand? Tell them to go get a cup of coffee. Take a little time out of your schedule for the troops. Does he tell his staff what to do or does his staff tell him what to do? Does the phrase grow a pair mean anything?
It just shows you one major flaw Obama has. He is a coward! He is probably afraid of the reception he would get from the soldiers. And if he was worried about it looking like a campaign event. DON'T LET THE PRESS COME WITH YOU!
When will the Obama robots see this phony for what he is? He is nothing but canned speeches about hope and change. He wouldn't know an original idea if jumped up and bit him on the rear. He is afraid to go on Fox News Sunday because they might ask him a tough question. He is afraid to debate McCain in an open town hall debate. He is afraid to admit the bravery, sacrifice, courage and performance of our troops during the surge is what made it work. And he is afraid to admit he was wrong about the surge all along. He is afraid to do anything that is not carefully scripted.

Now, I'm not asking this with any motivation other than to figure out what might have happened... And I realize that many of you have already made your conclusions, so I'm not trying to argue with that.

Reading this and the most recent post (about the cancelled hospital visit) and other sites, I just had a question about military regs: It says here that Obama only met with Illinois servicemen and women. Could that have something to do with the no-campaigning-only-as-a-Senator rule cited in the hospital fiasco? Meaning: it'd be perfectly OK for the Illinois Senator to meet with his constituents from Illinois, but not others, because that would then be classified as "campaigning"? I would guess that there's probably some sort of exception for meeting with officers of a given rank; you shouldn't have a rule that would stop Obama from talking with General Petraeus because Petraeus isn't from Illinois. But that shouldn't permeate down through the ranks; the DOD could draw a line somewhere, saying below this grade, it's "campaigning".

Just a random question which I thought I'd bounce off you guys to see if you had any knowledge of it.

Tom,

Politico has a good rundown of what the DoD says it advised Obama's campaign, as well as a statement from Obama's campaign spokesman on their interpretation.
You can see that here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0708/DoD_spokesman_says_Obama_camp_was_reminded_of_political_rules.html
(Sorry, I don't know how to do a text link)

I give Obama's campaign the benefit of the doubt here, especially in light of the recent "Mr. Maliki's own interpreter incorrectly translated his comments to say Maliki is in favor of an Obama timeline withdrawal" incident.
Not saying that same force was at work here because I don't know, but I admit I tend to look at things with a skeptical eye.

Are you still trying diogenes?

After a KKK reference?

C'mon. Repent. The offer's still on the table.

Sorry Tom,

Fact is he COULD have visited the troops. He just couldn't bring his own press club and staffers for campaign photo ops. He would of had to have military photographers only. So he didn't think it was worth it. It was his choice, no one else's fault, but Obama.

Thems the facts.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/07/obamabashing-gi-retracts-claim.html

"So Pakistanis are now Muslims? Better re-check your "KKK for Dummies" instruction manual."

I know the left wants me to believe their lies, but I'd rather go with some cold hard facts that are common knowledge.

Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Legal System: based on English common law with provisions to accommodate Pakistan's status as an Islamic state; accepts compulsory ICJ jurisdiction with reservations

Muslim 97%

mmmmmmm. That hurts.

Don't pretend to be offended that folks think you're a liar. What's your argument scorecard look like these days?

I'm going to direct a few left leaning friends to these threads, so they can have a look at you.

You lament that people think you're nuts, but then you act like a hyper-exaggerated characterization of a moonbat. The things you've written are emblematic of Liberals. The best thing to do is just laugh at you and remember it.

Don't bother with the apology.

I was in error. I was wrong. I was mistaken. Don't know what I was thinking of at that moment.

I stopped by my local Barnes and Noble this morning to pick up a copy of the "Daily Kos Guide for Obomican Dummies" so that I can avoid such silly gaffes again in the future.

I guess my concern there was that innocent Muslims (and others) were potentially being held responsible for the actions of the 9/11 nutjobs. I don't think that's the way we're supposed to operate in America but, hey, we've already determined that I can be mistaken. Maybe we do hold everybody that follows a certain religion responsible for the actions of any of its members. That's what Obama was getting at in that quotation, not that he was going to side with the Muslims against the U.S., as was inferred.

I will also go so far as to say that, in the interim since 9/11, I really think American Muslim leaders have dropped the ball by not "policing their own" to any appreciable extent. It's tough for them to squeak too loudly about mistreatement when they don't hardly lift a finger to help themselves, in some sense.

My question remains about the e-mail story and the hospital visit story possibly being intertwined, if anybody wants to answer.

Folks,

Stop falling for news delivered by email. Go seek the truth for yourself... the viral email that was circulating was a hoax, pure and simple, with the intent to plant seeds of hostility. This is the email equivalent of the Swift Boat Veteran's for Truth testimonials, all of which have been debunked.

Want to read the truth on this? Go to Snopes.com, a site dedicated to an unbiased debunking of emails like this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp

Um... WHICH SBVT claims in particular were debunked? And who collected T. Boone Pickens' million dollars?

Troll.

All of this is easily explained, by keeping one simple fact in mind.

Obama is a POLITICIAN, bred and molded in the fine tradition of the Chicago Democratic machine.

No deep psychological analysis is required to explain any of his actions. They are designed to acquire either votes or money.

He knows that he is not going to get the "military" vote. He only needs a few in his presence, just long enough for the heart-warming pictures of his "connection" with the common soldier. Any other contact with military personel holds only danger to his political aspirations; embarassing moments that may tarnish the halo, so he and his staff control every aspect of those meetings.

He found enough supporters on a large Kuwait base to look good in a photo op; I suspect that, among the limited set "wounded, in hospital" that they couldn't find/identify supporters so as to control the scenario, especially with the required one-on-one settings where embarassment could occur.

The LTC PR flack is acting per standing orders: A US Senator WILL be treated as such, and there will be no disprespect shown, regardless of personal feelings. What the Senator requests will occur, and without questioning. The Army gets really touchy about that whole rank thing. ;-)

Too late.

So you all are willing to believe an anonymous email over an official statement from the Army and actual video evidence which both contradict that anonymous email?

In that case, could you help me get my millions out of a Nigerian bank?

TR seems worried that the sheen's starting to come off of the golden boy. Tough. Good analogy, though, because Obama's candidacy is itself nothing but a hopey-changey political confidence scheme.

Oh, and that other Obamican slimeball can stow his "apology".

Maybe if we weren't so busy calling non-Obama supporters Klansmen we'd be a little more aware of basic facts about the War on Terror - no?

Anyway, I can understand Obama thinking it unseemly to exploit wounded soldiers for political gain. However, as others have noted there is no reason why he couldn't have gone alone with only his security detail, etc and had private conversations with the servicemen.

Most commenters seem to chalk it up to disdain for the military but Tom is probably onto something when he talks about Obama needing his staff to "hold his hand". He is basically an Affirmative Action candidate who can't conduct himself extemporaneously in front of a hostile audience. Pretty much everything about his trip abroad has been rigorously stage-managed. When you've been raised all your life in one left-wing echo chamber after another (Harvard, Chicago, and so on) it is difficult if not impossible to face people who don't share your beliefs.

Contrast this with George W. Bush's decision to go the MLK day wreath laying ceremony, and Rosa Parks' funeral. Despite all the venom that the left-wingers spewed, even the mainstream networks had to give him credit for going.

"This email was meant only for my family."

Must be one pretty darned big family if he had to sign his full name with his middle initial, include his rank and posting, and describe himself as "An American Soldier" and "married and father of 6 children" so they'd know who it was.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

No apology intended, Nine. Yes, I made a mistake, but the fact is that Obama was misquoted to begin with, and then a clearly insulting and bigoted comment was made towards an entire religion. No admission that a mistake was made by that commenter (in misquoting Obama) and no apology for smearing an entire religion, so don't hold your breath, big boy.

Um... WHICH SBVT claims in particular were debunked? And who collected T. Boone Pickens' million dollars?

Posted by: DaveP. at July 25, 2008 04:28 PM
--------------------------------------

Geeze, which ones HAVEN'T been debunked? For instance:

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/truth.html

Better yet, how about you name a single substantive claim they made about Kerry's military service that was proven true?

Pickens must need his money, because every time someone's tried to take him up on his "challenge," he's backed out.

Kind of sad how diogenes is a liar as well as geographically ignorant. My comment specifically targeted domestic jihadists and their western cheerleaders - not muslims as a whole. AND I never said anti-muslim vigilantes were justified - merely that they are inevitable if Muslims don't self police. I suppose he noticed the Messiah telling easily disproven lies (being on committees that he isn't, for one). Like a trained monkey he can't help but follow the magical negro's lead.

BTW-no need to apologize, you hopeychangey abortion. :)Every now and then I get even sicker than usual of McCain and his self righteous "Maverick" mantle. Almost to the point where I don't want to vote. Then I listen to people like you spout off and I come to my senses. So in all honesty - thanks.

Talk long enough, and you show yourself for what you are. "Magical Negro"? "Chocolate Jesus"? (in another thread)

But you are right on one count: I shouldn't have suggested you belong to the KKK. Since I don't know you, I don't know what affiliations, if any, you actually have in the Real World. I should have said that your racism would certainly qualify you for inclusion in the KKK, should you choose to join. For THAT, I apologize.

They won't hold it against me that I belong to their favorite group to lynch, will they?

Heh.

Not a KKK member - just a minority extremely worried about the Magical Negro's associations and politics.

I personally think the great hopeychangey chimp is a lost cause but to the other readers: my use of "Magical Negro" is actually a description of a very common entertainment/social motif affecting many of the "positive" cultural portrayals of black people. See the article below. If I'm not mistaken Ehrenstein is anything but conservative, so just keep that in mind when it is dismissed it as bigotry (inevitably):

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,1,3136932.story?track=rss

Strike the extra "it".

Yeah, and your use of "Chocolate Jesus" is your homage to the New Orleans mayor.

If anybody here believes your smirky rationalizations of your racism, then it's worse than I thought.

Luckily, you're gonna lose with this strategery come November. But it's still vile as hell for the next few months.

Let's get some originality, chimp. Go for five seconds without chanting "Ray-cist".

It's fanatical about accusing others of racism, yet can barely conceive of minorities who don't support Obama. Interesting.

Even if Chocolate Jesus wins he loses. He's in over his head and he is sure to be remembered as an incompetent. In fact the worst thing McCain could do to dio-monkey's idol is lose the election. We like our Magic Negroes in "Bagger Vance" and "The Shawshank Redemption" - not presiding over massive tax hikes. If Obama loses (especially if he doesn't run again) he will be idealized as "what might have been).

C-Y, do you condone this crap? Is this what "conservatives" believe?

diogenes,

The fact is that he was right about Ehrenstein's "magic negro" column and the literary type it was constructed from, and though I find some of his word choices deliberately provocative, your assertion he should join the Klan is no better.

It seems that you and he are both going at each other on equally obnoxious terms, so who do I boot? Both of you?

That sounds reasonable. First and final warning for both of you to lay off.

What kind of mental malfunction is the DioChimp having? A couple posts ago, he told us he WAS a conservative! Although I guess it's possible he's a "Conservative" who happens to think that it's "Ray-sist" to oppose hopey-changey goldenboy.

Slimeball & mediocre liar, to boot.

Very well; I will stand down. I posted that last one before reading your comment CY.

Sad, really. Racial epithets flying all over, and it all "evens out" because because of KKK ?

In a free society, even racist speech has to be tolerated. But it was already pointed out that this isn't a free society here, by any means. It's CONFEDERATE YANKEE society, and you set the rules. You get to decide what conduct and language is acceptable and what isn't. And you have. You sat back and sat back and listened to his racism, probably chuckling cuz the stupid liberal was on the receiving end. Then, when I called you out, you called us both out. About as fair and balanced as I should have expected.

You needn't boot me, and I won't stand down like a good little soldier taking orders from his commanding officer. I'm gone. Enjoy your little narrow-minded redneck mudhole here.

Like it or not, change is coming. And if this is what America is chaning away from, we'll be better off.

"Chaning" away from Ray-sism! Outstanding!

As usual, you'd better grovel before the messiah or else you are ray-sist.

Interesting to note the knee-jerk disdain for military discipline. I thought the whole point of this Mickey Mouse photo op was to prove the hard Left's love for US servicemen/women? It never takes long before the left wingers' true attitude towards the military shines through.

Understand that I hardly care either way whether or not Majick Negro wins. It's going to be kind of funny seeing the MN out of his comfort zone if he does make it to the White House. Once he fails to deal with $5-a-gallon gas, Dinner Jacket's threats, inflation and who knows how many other problems, I'm quite confident he will be able to blame everything on Bushitler's RAY-SIST supporters-what with the Democrats controlling two branches of government. All the racial thought police who think he will be able to paper over his dearth of experience with blanket accusations of racism are sadly mistaken.

Obama cannot be loved as a politician. He can only be loved as a hypothetical, post-partisan idealized token minority whose candidacy offers absolution for the country's past racial sins. Even now many Leftists are disgusted with Obama's swing to the center on a variety of National Security issues. An incompetent Obama as president will initiate a masssive case of "Buyer's Remorse" as the hype wears off. I've said before, the worst thing McCain could possibly do to Obama is lose the election.

It seems that you and he are both going at each other on equally obnoxious terms, so who do I boot? Both of you?

I'll second that motion.

Skylark, Kerry could easily have discredited the Swift Boaters by releasing his service records. He promised to do so - and never has. Now why would that be? He could prove the SB Vets are liars, collect a million - not that he needs the cash, but he could donate the money to a worthy cause - and restore his good name (although several Vietnam vets told me in 2004 that it wasn't Kerry's time incountry that was the problem for them, but what he did when he came back that made his name mud among many vets.)

So why doesn't Kerry release his records?

Skylark, Kerry could easily have discredited the Swift Boaters by releasing his service records. He promised to do so - and never has. Now why would that be? He could prove the SB Vets are liars, collect a million - not that he needs the cash, but he could donate the money to a worthy cause - and restore his good name (although several Vietnam vets told me in 2004 that it wasn't Kerry's time incountry that was the problem for them, but what he did when he came back that made his name mud among many vets.)

So why doesn't Kerry release his records?

---------------------------

Well perhaps you'd like to tell us exactly which records of his military service are missing from those posted at his website?

But of course that has nothing to do with whether the SBVT claims have been disproven. I've shown where they have been, and would be happy to provide more links.

And of course you're evading my question:

Which substantive SBVT claim about Kerry's military record has been proven?

Be specific, please.

PS to Donna V:

Here's a link to at least some of those records, to help you refresh your memory:

Findlaw

Pardon me, I should have written "full service records." Kerry has released parts of it, but he refuses to release his entire file. James Taranto of the WSJ was keeping an eye on this. From a November 2007 Best of the Web story:

Earlier this week it was reported that Kerry was taking Pickens up on his offer (we noted it Monday). Yesterday Spectator editor Bob Tyrrell sent along the correspondence between Kerry and Pickens (Pickens's reply comes first, then Kerry's original letter), and it turns out there's a lot less to this than meets the eye. Kerry merely asserts that "I am prepared to prove the lie beyond any reasonable doubt" and then demands the moolah:

'I would request that your check be made payable to the Paralyzed Veterans of America. . . . My hope is that by sending this money to such a dedicated organization--founded for veterans, by veterans--some good can come out of the ugly smears and lies of the orchestrated campaign you bankrolled in 2004 in an attempt to discredit my military record and the record of the men who served alongside me on the Swift Boats of the Mekong Delta.'

Pickens wasn't born yesterday, however. He wrote back noting that Kerry actually had to prove it. He asked Kerry to send "the journal you maintained during your service in Vietnam" and "your military record, specifically your service records for the years 1971-1978, and copies of all movies and tapes made during your service."

Well, Boone, good luck trying to get those military records. Kerry promised to release them 1,025 days ago, and an anxious nation (except for a few select reporters) still holds its breath."

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110010892

Once again Donna, please tell us exactly which military service records are missing from those posted online.

Pickens issued an unqualified challenge to ANYONE who could disprove anything the SBVT claimed. When someone took him up on it, he changed the terms.

Aside from the fact that Pickens doesn't get to choose ahead of time exactly which proof will be presented - either Kerry makes his case or he doesn't - it's nonsensical.

Why would Kerry have to provide his complete wartime journals and home movies if he is disproving a claim about his antiwar activities? Why does he need to provide records about his postwar reserve service if he is disproving a claim about a wartime medal?

And since the challenge was issued to ANYONE...if I were to take him up on it, would I have to provide Kerry's Vietnam movies before I could even step up to the plate? Why?

And once again, you've failed to tell us which of any of the substantive SBVT claims about Kerry's military service has been proven true.

Why are you deflecting the question?

How about this fact skylark. The only one I, as a fellow Vietnam veteran care about since his actions caused him to leave his duties before his time was up and someone else had to come in country and pull his missions. In my book he violated the code soldiers live by, that of serving your post for your specified time, covering the men to your left and right. Kerry opted out early. Kerry received three "wounds" which qualified him for purple hearts. At least two of the three did not require sufficient medical treatment to warrant recording in his medical file. ONe of the purple hearts was thrown out by his (then) commanding officer and then later submitted after that CO had moved on. His three Purple Hearts got him an early DEROS (Date expected to return from overseas service) and he went home before the normal time to serve his tour, like everyone else. That's been debunked? Nope it hasn't.

How about this fact skylark. The only one I, as a fellow Vietnam veteran care about since his actions caused him to leave his duties before his time was up and someone else had to come in country and pull his missions. In my book he violated the code soldiers live by, that of serving your post for your specified time, covering the men to your left and right. Kerry opted out early. Kerry received three "wounds" which qualified him for purple hearts. At least two of the three did not require sufficient medical treatment to warrant recording in his medical file. ONe of the purple hearts was thrown out by his (then) commanding officer and then later submitted after that CO had moved on. His three Purple Hearts got him an early DEROS (Date expected to return from overseas service) and he went home before the normal time to serve his tour, like everyone else. That's been debunked? Nope it hasn't.

Posted by: hueypilot at July 26, 2008 04:40 PM
-------------------------------------------------

First of all, the question was which substantive claim SBVT made about his military service has been PROVEN. I don't see how you're answering that.

As to the rest:

Yes, Kerry received three wounds that qualified him for Purple Hearts.

All three wounds received medical treatment. Only two personnel casualty reports have been found. But the degree of the injury or the nature of the treatment isn't what qualifies one for a PH. For instance, SBVT member Robert Hildreth received the exact same sort of treatment - by a corpsman and then returned to duty -as Kerry did a little later on the same day. I don't see anyone questioning his PH.

Kerry's first PH was not "thrown out" by his CO. Hibbard claims Kerry brought it up, but he declined to pursue it. However, he admitted that he knew about it before he left VN and acquiesed to it.

The Navy inspector general said all of Kerry's award were awarded by those with proper authority and according to the proper procedures.

He left early as permitted by Navy regs? Not in dispute. (He also made sure his entire crew was transferred to safer duty, by the way.)

So exactly what's your point?

PS, I am talking about the treatment Hildreth and Kerry received on February 20, 1969, when Kerry won his second PH.

Nope, I'm wrong. Kerry was treated by an MD on Feb. 20, and returned for duty. That was the date he got shrapnel in his thigh, which required an X-ray and stitches.

He was treated by a corpsman on March 13. Just like Hildreth and a couple of others were on February 20.

Whats the big deal with Snopes ??? They get into their pants like the rest of us therefore they are plenty capable of screwing up once in a while like the rest of us. I know what I saw in the news. the rookie senator fron Illinois "DID" shoot baskets and to do it with only soldiers from Illinois present was nothing more than segregation/favoritism. Way to go Obama!!!

Well back on topic. The Obama camp had been working on the visit for 3 weeks with a retired Air Force general (who had served at the base in the 90s) as their liason. The campaign plane had been cleared to land. Obama's senate staff had been sent home at the end of the senate portion of the trip. Obama submitted the list of their entourage - 3 people, Obama, the general, and a lackey/gofer. The Pentagon whiffs it and says the general is a campaign advisor ergo it's a campaign stop.

Obama cancels the trip, the press expresses dismay, not that it was cancelled, but that they didn't even know that he had been planning it because it wasn't on their press schedule. How dare he hide something from them again like he did his clandestine meeting with Hillary.

The Pentagon spokesman (and if you google him you'll find how many other incidents he's mangled) says no no we didn't say he couldn't come we just said he had to do it with his senate staff only and no press. Wink, wink because idiots will think if we mention the press then OBVIOUSLY Obama was such a media whore that he was planning on bringing the press and since he's a senator then surely he had senate staff with him even though it's against campaign rules for them to be on a campaign plane.

Yep, got his balls in a vice grip now. If he goes he's a pandering politico abusing wounded soldiers for the fawning media coverage (never mind the only media coverage that could have attended was military) and if he cancels he's a no good snob that had a hissy fit because the pentagon was too smart for him and told him he could bring the fawning liberal press (never mind that he wasn't going to bring them).

Ahhh yes, my neocon job at the Pentagon is secure.

Whats the big deal with Snopes ??? They get into their pants like the rest of us therefore they are plenty capable of screwing up once in a while like the rest of us.

And indeed, as far as this story goes, they did parts of it incorrect, through no fault of their own.

The Captain that authored the email said "Bagram" in his email, which most logically took to mean Bagram Air Base. He was actually referring to Camp Eggers where he was based, and probably referenced Bagram as a city reference for the family members that this email was distributed too originally.

Because of this, the soldiers at Bagram referenced at eh end of the Snopes article are correct, but utterly irrelevant.

Hey, LTB... I'd be interested in your source for the list of three people you mentioned. If it's Obama himself, well... let's just say I'd rather have an uninvolved third party's report.

I am not running for Pesident, but I want to thank all the soldiers for being over there!
I bet if Mccain was a little younger, he would be over there fighting for our rights too!

C-C-G -

How's this?

The Pentagon considered two Obama aides, Gration and Jeff Kiernan, to be members of his campaign team and therefore not permitted to accompany the senator to Landstuhl, according to a Pentagon letter sent by European Command spokesman John Dorrian. Obama could only be accompanied by one of his Senate staff and ``the appropriate number of security personnel.'' ... Instead, he telephoned wounded soldiers at the base, a Pentagon spokeswoman said.

Bloomberg

As LTB pointed out, Senate staff are not permitted on campaign trips.