Yes, Alicar. Take what is meant to be an ironic moniker and twist it in order to avoid the issue at hand.

I don't 'favour' that kind of rhetorical device myself. but then again, what the hell do I know?

Don't feed the trolls, Tom. I just toss 'em.

Bill Ayers wanted to kill 25 million people.

He baby-sat Obama's kids. He was a direct political ally of Obama. The two are friends.

Obama is already using every means at his disposal to silence his critics, from legal harassment to outright thuggery.

The irony: all that talk of Chimpy McBushitler and the squashing of dissent. No one was ever shut down. No one was audited by the IRS (unlike under Clinton, Inc.). No dissent was squashed. You engaged in the most disgusting forms of raw hatred and mania for 8 years, fantasizing about murdering Bush, casting him as a Hitler clone and spewing the kind of bile and vitriol that in the past was saved for those that actually did evil things.

Now your candidate is enmeshed in a web of violent radicals and demagogues that actually have sought and continue to seek to do *exactly* what you accused Bush of doing.

Rich, bible-black irony, indeed.

Since ayers and company declared war on the US and that declaration has not been recinded, why the hell can he and his cohorts not be arrested and tried for the crime of treason today?

why did this take so long to come out?

!!!!

"No dissent was squashed."

Heh.

Dissent was carefully nurtured like an acorn of resistance by the blood expression of brave patriots liberally spilt in the garden of liberty to grow into a mighty oak of freedom.

Dissent was lovingly suckled like a tender piglet of entitlement at the beneficent teat of a brave and emancipated sow of social justice.

Missouri Truth Squads - BO's threat of arrest for anything "said deemed untrue by the Obama campaign"
WGN Radio Interview with Stanley Kurtz - BO tried to shut down and disrupt, begging supporters to clog the the lines so that Kurtz could not be heard discussing his research into Obama.Ayers/Dhorn/Klonsky work on CAC
BO's Letter to DOJ demanding shutdown of TV stations running Obama Ayers ads
Secret Service visit to Jessica Hughes in TX - after an Obamathug called her and she said she would never vote for BO for his suport of infanticide. The caller reported her to the SS for "threatening BO". SS actually investigated it and filed a report - on the caller's word! (Jessica is suing, Thank God.)
Exposing the record of BO? Against BO LAW.
Telling the truth about BO? Against BO LAW.
Expressing your opinion of terrorists? Against BO LAW.
Posting BO video - expressing infanticidal support, or socialist ideology or Marxist speech? Against BO LAW.

Oh, and dissent from BO positions? RAAAAAAAAAAACIST!

And what is so surprising that a Marxist/socialist would want to kill 25 million people for their ideology?

It's not that Omaba is Ayers friend but they are of the same ideology and historically those who follow that system "need" to thin the herd more so than want to for their system to work....for awhile until the population exceeds their fiscal budget thats founded on oppressive over taxation and by that time the socialist government has morphed into a communist government and they need to rinse and repeat.

Anyone reading this site going to sign up for Obama's Civil Defense Force?...just curious.

the press won't cover this so it won't matter.

period.

I've been saying for weeks that if it came out that Obama's first act in office would be to drop a nuclear bomb on Kansas, his supporters would immediately start arguing that Kansas has it coming.

I thought I was using hyperbole. Turns out Obama's friends are hoping I'm being observant.

Socialists have a very long history of genocide as a tool for re-education.

And we must know that this is a low-ball estimate. US pop at that time was probably about 200 mil so that would be 12.5%. No way. Even today with the documented enthusiasm for the outright socialist candidate there is no WAY so few of our fellow citizens would prove intractable to the moronic agit-prop of Ayersism and he certainly knows it. What was the butcher's bill in the USSR? Are we LESS freedom loving here? Whatever, this cowardly puke yearns to bathe in the blood of the counter-revolutionary. So does Barry. WAKE UP PEOPLE! THIS IS A RACIST AND FASCIST AND HE IS PROUD OF IT!

Treason, yes. But guaranteed, with Obama in office, these kinds of people and their plots will have NOTHING to fear. Please, please God, keep the illuminati out of office so America can remain a free country.

We are already seeing this. With every lawsuit, every false cry of racism. Every maltov cocktail thrown at a McCain/Palin sign. Every rock and brick through the windows of our recruitment centers.

They left will stop at nothing to stop free thinking.

Hey, did you guys hear that Sarah Palin got another new outfit? Yeah, it's ina ll the papers.

If you're looking for a reporter to cover this, I suggest you try outside the womens' dressing rooms as Saks 5th Avenue.

Oh, come on! Bill Ayers wanted to kill 25 million people when Barack Obama was only 9 years old. I'm pretty sure Obama has already reputed his friends' reprehensible genocidal desires as soon as it was made public.

Can we question their patriotism yet? Oh, sorry, I forgot, dissent = 25 million "eliminated" = patriotism.

Ayers said:

I'm guilt as sin; free as a bird. What a country!

Is it your contention that the 'Weather Underground' is still in operation and Senator Obama an active member working to implement Mass Murder?

Or has the Senator from Illinois set up his own 'Obama Nation' to perpetuate this genocide?

Or is he just waiting to become President and then he'll order all the executions?

Nothing here is new. The crimes and intended crimes of the Weaterhmen were well documented going back at least to the 80's (I read all of it in "Destructive Generation" when I was in college).

No slam on Bob intended; the fact that all this stuff is out there in the public domain and has been for decades is an indictment of the in-the-tank media that refuses to see what's staring them in the face.

Well Owl, the last elements of the Weathermen (who became the May 19th Communist Movement) were rounded up and prosecuted in the mid 1980s. During that time both Obama and Ayers were around the Columbia University community. Ayers was working on his graduate degree from Columbia and Obama was an undergraduate at Columbia. And remember that Obama has, by the way, refused to release his Columbia transcripts. Did he take courses taught by the graduate assistant/student William Ayers? Be nice to know, don't you think?

Is that what is required for this to be relevant to you owlbear1? Or is that simply where you place the goalposts this time?

I refer you to my comment posted today at 12:25.

The left dosnplays the Ayers connection, but the people a candidate hangs out with says a lot.

One of John Kerry's kids' godfathers (in the non-Mafia sense of that word) was Peter Yarrow, who, prior to the Kerry's selecting him for that important role, had been convicted of having sex with a 14 year old girl. This tells me all I need to know about Kerry's judgment - he picked a convicted sex offender as a godparent ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Yarrow

We are presented with what is claimed to be the 'Weather Underground's' goals for America.

We are presented with evidence said to demonstrate Senator Obama's relationship with a prominent member of the 'Weather Underground'.

We are asked to "Draw your OWN conclusion.".

I am asking you YOUR conclusions?

What YOU decided is the Truth?

Do YOU believe an Obama presidency will result in the deaths of 25 MILLION Americans?

We are presented with what is claimed to be the 'Weather Underground's' goals for America.

We are presented with evidence said to demonstrate Senator Obama's relationship with a prominent member of the 'Weather Underground'.

We are asked to "Draw your OWN conclusion.".

I am asking you YOUR conclusions?

What YOU decided is the Truth?

Do YOU believe an Obama presidency will result in the deaths of 25 MILLION Americans?

If find it more than a little ironic that these 'revolutionaries' assume things will just fall their way, because, like they aced the SATs and got into Ivy League schools, so they're obviously smarter than everyone else. They're begging for a confrontation they're so ill-equipped to participate in.

Just as one example, one side of this philosophical divide owns, can field-strip, clean and fire an AK-47, and does so fairly regularly at gun ranges across the nation.

The other uses the AK-47 to help them identify the "oppressed peoples" they're supposed to be rooting for when they see news broadcasts from foreign countries.

They are really not ready for what they're asking for.

Anyone who is not deeply concerned that a prospective POTUS has been and continues to be closely associated with a marxist who has a history of terrorism and past beliefs in genocide is either an idiot or in favor themselves of the terrorist's politics.

Simple enough even for a troll.

Anyone who is not deeply concerned that a prospective POTUS has been and continues to be closely associated with a marxist who has a history of terrorism and past beliefs in genocide is either an idiot or in favor themselves of the terrorist's politics.

Simple enough even for a troll.

So iconoclast, No? You don't believe an Obama presidency will result the deaths of millions?

Just lots of policies you don't like?

One determined man can change history.

owlbear1 -

Not immediately.

People will be given a couple of years to adjust to what The One will be demanding of us. Then, about the time the next election would have been held, the Walrus will sadly turn to his Carpenters and order the liquidation of those who refuse to be reeducated. By that time, America will be so destitute that more Soylent Green will be a major priority.

The lucky ones will be able to swim to the relative safety and prosperity of Cuba using the inner tubes.

I am asking you YOUR conclusions?

What YOU decided is the Truth?

That anyone who would so much as agree to be in the same room with Billy Ayers or Bernadine Dohrn--much less launch their career from their living room--has no business holding any elected office in this country. Period, dot.

That's not hard to understand, unless you're a Leftist.

I guess he doesn't need reeducation camps if he runs the school system.

Gee, owly...

Just a lot of policies that will ruin the economy and work against free speech - like the Fairness Doctrine.

You don't have to kill even thousands of people to screw up the nation. And, any nation on earth that has seen a socialist government established has witnessed dire economic poverty and fascism.

So, when you have a candidate for president who has spent decades hanging around with communists and socialists and revolutionaries and wildly anti-US people and avidly reading and giving praise to literature championing these radicals and picks as a career choice doing "community organizing" in a bastion location for such radicalism.....

...some of us dare to think perhaps the media should be informing us about these ties - this socio-political orientation...

....so voters can make an informed decision about whether we want to trust the guy with the most powerful position in our government.

Crazy isn't it? When I bring it up to lefty aquaintainces, that I wouldn't be friends with Ayers and Dorn, they then ask if I can still be friends with them because they once skipped school. Seriously. It's insane.

But then, they probably have this rosy picture of two kids with posterboard and chants. Or not, I dunno. One person admitted they had friends in the SDS and the Black Panthers back then.

Turnabout is fair play. What are we to do with the incorrigibles who will not relent from their plans to destroy Western civilization? The ones who attack our freedom from within? These are psychopaths who will not be rehabilitated or alter their beliefs. Can they be deported? Exiled? Who will have them? What is the cost? When you are dealing with an implacable internal enemy, all available options must be considered. It's purely a matter of survival. Morals do not enter the picture in these cases.

What is with the U. of Chicago?

Somebody should take a look around their facaulty - what other kinds of disertations and publications they make.

Because I know it is also home to historian Bruce Cumings - another rabidly anti-US intellectual whose career work has tried to deny that North Korea started the Korean War, advance the idea the US used chemical warfare against the Chinese during that war, and defended the North Korean state.

it disturbs me to think that YOU think that a) Obama was right in ignoring this shitbird's past, or b) was associating with his ilk without knowing who he was.

Dave, what does it tell you about the character of the man who appointed them both to the same committee?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Annenberg

?

Ditto, Drider. Nothing bugs me more than people saying the problem is merely one of Obama's "judgment" (according to most conservative pundits) or that "he won't tell the truth about it" (according to McCain). Yes, bad judgment and deceptiveness are indeed problems, but the BIG problem, the HUGE problem--the elephant in the middle of the room that almost no one will come right out and talk about--is that Obama and Ayers are friends at all, because their IDEOLOGY is the same. That is what makes Obama different from all previous candidates. We've been up against sleazoids like Bill Clinton, and flaming liberals like Dukakis and Kerry. But never has the opponent been an outright Marxist. With Ayers providing the agenda and George Soros, the one-world-government super-billionaire, providing the funds...... may God spare us.

feeding trolls is a waste of time.

Anyone have anything worthwhile to add to this topic? Other than the fact that the concept of genocide seems to be foreign to many Americans. As does the concept of socialism. It is a terrible shame, but it does seem that every generation or so must learn about evil by experience rather than by reading and understanding.

Anyone notice they are trying to clean up Ayers so he is acceptable when Obama puts him in charge of whatever Dr. Goebels was in charge of?

Barack Obama represents the endgame of a decade's old effort to install a radical leftist in the White House. If they succeed the opportunity will not be squandered.

Obama is America's Hugo Chavez and this election will determine whether America lives or dies.

So Ayers bombed public places and plotted the mass murder of twenty-five million Americans. Why should it bother you if it didn't bother Obama, who is way smarter than us and knows best. Ayers is just a guy from his neighborhood. And if Obama is elected, Ayers may be just a guy in his administration. Director of the FBI, perhaps. Or maybe something in the Bureau of Prisons.

Owlbear:
Before Hitler assumed total control in Germany, he was widely regarded as a caring, articulate man with a charming smile. Women had crushes on him and children sang for him and threw flowers at him. Sound familiar? The problem with those who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is that they can be quite winsome when they're merely PURSUING power. They don't turn into obvious monsters until they actually GET it--and then it's too late. I recommend "Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer" at:
www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html
It's written by an Iranian who witnessed first-hand the coming to power of another famous narcissist: the Ayatollah Khomeini. The author focuses on psychiatry and social psychology rather than Obama's policy positions per se. The pathological narcissist is equally dangerous no matter which end of the conventional political "spectrum" the individual comes from. Khomeini, Hitler, Saddam, Osama bin Laden, Mao Tse-Tung, Kim Jong Il, Joseph Stalin----makes no difference. All had NPD. And the evidence shows that so does Obama.

Ayers and Dohrn represent the Left's end-of-road. The only difference there is among Leftists and their various ideologies, is the time it takes to arrive.

So no, Obama isn't likely to bring us to this destination... but he will move us along towards it.

just a rambling thought -- Obama and the lefties might be thinking that there could be another fascist takeover of Congress in 2010 (just as happened in 1994 under Adolf Gingrich) and may think that, once in power, they may need to act quickly to sew up control of things: bring back the "Fairness Doctrine", IRS investigations of fascist organizations like the NRA and National Review and the American Spectator, regulate the internet to restrict the dissemination of speech that spreads lies and causes hatred, etc.
Fantasy? Dunno. Hitler and Stalin were pretty real and they did much worse than leftwing dems are likely to do... oh, and gun control: can't have untrained people running around with guns.
And I remember a guy named Bob Avakian (head of some "Revolutionary Communist Party" in the 1980s or so) said that about 40 million Americans were beyond education and would need to be liquidated.
Ayers and Dohrn? Pikers, if you ask me.

God knows I said a lot of stupid things when I was young, although not anything indicating that I would support killing twenty-five million people for having opinions I didn't like. However, I grew up and if anyone confronted me with something dumb I said or did I'd (in most cases) be able to say I repented of that long ago. That's the thing about Ayers; he doesn't repent a thing. He wishes he'd done more. He was part of an action that killed people, he got off on a legal point, and he doesn't express regret...just wishes he'd done more.

For that matter, I received a forwarded statement from a rabbi in Hyde Park who says Obama is good for the Jews and among other things points out that Obama has disavowed Rev. Wright's vile bigotry. I am less impressed; he was an active congregant for twenty years and doesn't even claim he took Wright aside and whispered, "You know, Rev, the Mossad didn't actually carry out 9/11 and AIDS isn't really a government conspiracy."

tantor, I'm thinking head of Homeland Security, myself. No wonder Hamas raised money for Obama.

Owlbear:

Make it easy for you -- Obama's repeated associations with Bill Ayers are no different than if Obama had repeatedly played golf with OJ Simpson.

Everything to do with judgement, and the kind of person who'd be comfortable associating with such a reprobate.

Math time, "CY." ~12M people were murdered in the holocaust. ~6M of them were Jews. The rest were Slavs, trade unionists, homosexuals, Gypsies, the mentally disabled, and political and religious opponents of the regime.

If you're going to toss mud, that's fine; it's a free country. At least try to get the important stuff right...

usinkorea, Ayers is a prof. at the University of Illinois at Chicago, not the University of Chicago. There is a big difference.

Dave, what does it tell you about the character of the man who appointed them both to the same committee?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Annenberg

Typical lefty response. Annenberg did not appoint them to a committee. Ayers applied for a grant from the Annenberg foundation and Ayers arranged for Obama to be appointed to the committee since he was responsible for selecting the board to administer the grant (part of the proposal).

I hope I haven't missed this from someone else, but hasn't Obama proposed some sort of paramilitary responsible to him that equals the current US military? What could he do with something like that, owlbear, assuming they are loyal to O?

Do I think he would kill 25 mil? Who knows. But building an organization as powerful as the US military that is loyal to O would be a good first step. Why else do we need this thing?

By the way, I like the conversation. It's more interesting than the pile on.

Owlbear-

It's an interesting question. If he had no direct influence, as gh says, then it may be meaningless, and it may be that he had something nefarious that he was up to.

Slate's obit of Annenberg is telling, but the filters here won't let me post the link. It's easy to find.

Being a 'toady of Richard Nixon' would make Bill Ayers a strange bedfellow indeed, but given Annenberg's reported ruthlessness, he might have had all sorts of reasons to get next to Ayers, and I just don't know.

I'm reminded of Bill Cosby talking about how grandparents are so much nicer than they were as parents, that they are just mean people trying to get into heaven. Some philanthropists certainly fit that description.

Annenberg's foundations may do all kinds of good work, but it is funny nonetheless that he was apparently such a bastard. The Pol Pot Foundation for the Prevention of Genocide might do good work, too, but since "Brother Number One" didn't have the press covering his slime trail, it isn't likely to fly.

Turnabout is fair play. What are we to do with the incorrigibles who will not relent from their plans to destroy Western civilization

And herein lay the seeds of war. That is not an attack on you Rick, but a recognition of the situation that presents itself should the communists take power. A reaction would be necessary. Or, as Ayers put it, a "counterrevolution". I'm sure it would be more spontaneous than organized, but more's the better. It's the Chicago way. They bring a knife, you bring a gun. I am fearing for the future.

25,000,000?

It's all about production baby, production.

In 1971 25 Million would have been about 10% of the American population, then roughly 250 million. This 10% was about the number of Russians Lenin "eliminated" from November 1917 to 1921. Stalin went for about the same percentage of Soviets during his later purges, maybe a little higher. 10% was roughly the precentage of population Stalin killed in in the Baltic and other Eastern European countries when they were occupied. And likewise for Tito. I'm not up on the toll for Asian countries, but it would be unlikely if their self-inflicted losses were much lower. It would stand to reason and experience that if radical communists came to power in Amreiica we woule be treated likewise.

owlbear1,

If McCain had an associate who wrote a book saying that the problem with America in the 1960s was that as technology had progressed to do more and more of the work that used to be done by minorities, said minorities had become useless to the new order (didn't have enough money to keep them all on welfare and had no use for their labor, after all) and had to be liquidated, would you be interested?

Of course, that's a rhetorical question because I already know the answer.

Nopalinplease:

The point of the discussion is that Annenberg was likely uninvolved. I pointed out that he made no sense as a 'fellow traveler' to Ayers, though I speculated that he might have had his own reasons (perhaps Chicago political power) for buddying up. I think it much more likely that Annenberg is just the name on the door, and the source of the dough. No hating at all, just sober consideration of the facts, and noting they didn't add up.

Despite your dramatic use of all caps (nice touch), you aren't making much sense.

I'm more than ready to admit that much of the damage done to Republicans is self-inflicted. No denial there. And I'm sure they are going to spend some time in the desert, but I'm guessing against 40 years. Maybe 2-8. I think that some reckoning is inevitable even if McCain were to pull this one out of his butt.

George Bush could be Satan himself, or a giant head hippy puppet, and it would still not absolve Barack Obama of the foolishness (at least) of being associated (however tenuously) with a nutbag like Bill Ayers who actually was a terrorist, who actually fantasized about the rounding up of political enemies and executing them, and who, to this day, does not repudiate his actions or stances.

Practical considerations aside (and they are huge for someone who has national aspirations) Obama should not have had anything to do with Ayers. Nothing at all. No cause is noble enough to sit down as colleagues with avowed enemies of one's country, and no caveat about how they were doing bad things when he was a kid is absolution for such a lapse of judgment, in my opinion. The best possible spin put on their association has Obama either a dummy or incredibly cynical. He doesn't have to plan to round us all up to be unacceptable. The most gracious interpretation of his association with Ayers comes very close to making him so in my eyes.

Finally, whatever Republicans have done to the economy, they did not insist on lending people money who could not pay it back, and they didn't call people racists for expecting due diligence. You can lay that in Barney Frank's lap, though you'll have to move his boyfriend that was the head of Fannie Mae to put it there. If that were more widely understood, that guy would be out.

I can't believe this country is about to elect a man who once planned genocide against 25 million Americans! This post really has me scared. How come we're just now hearing that BHO was a member of the Weather Underground? This is really scary. To think that BHO was a terrorist back in the late 70s and early 80s, and then after 9/11, we're about to elect a Muslim terrorist as our President? Has this country lost it's mind? Maybe BHO is just trying to pass himself off as a "reformed" terrorist, but still, aren't there laws against being a terrorist once and being the President? First we had Clinton, a drug dealer running coke into AK and now we have a former terrorist. Lord have mercy. Those Democrats are subhuman parasites.

I can't believe this country is about to elect a man who once planned genocide against 25 million Americans! This post really has me scared. How come we're just now hearing that BHO was a member of the Weather Underground? This is really scary. To think that BHO was a terrorist back in the late 70s and early 80s, and then after 9/11, we're about to elect a Muslim terrorist as our President?

Is this the status of political discourse? *BHO is not a Muslim. BHO was not a member of the Weather Underground as a gradeschooler.*

What madness is this? And hey, even if he was a Muslim -- wasn't Tim McVeigh a friggin *christian*? Does that make all christians terrorists?

Sheesh.

venividivici: you're defending these appalling abusers, because they spent 17 hours a day taking advantage of those foolish enough to believe they could continue to have endlessly increasing housing values?

You want to know what is the cause of the economic breakdown? Human nature. People are no more greedy today than they were yesterday or the day before that. That's why it happens so frequently in history. Besides, Obama doesn't appear to have any problem with inequality, so long as its politicians and bureaucrats at the top of the hierarchy.

Exactly: Human nature is constructed with pre-industrial, pre-capitalist evolutionary drivers. We need to do better. Today, we need more than raw, brutish, nasty, and short lives, in which the most selfish win.

That works if we have a population of a few million, maybe even a billion people in the world. We have now 6 billions. That requires a different model of cooperation, of "sharing the wealth," of constructing society.

Do I think Obama will do that? Not a chance. Obama will try to be pragmatic, but will also have to confront the absolutists, the reactionaries, those who are certain there is one way to do it.

The needs we have *far* exceed what is possible in this society. We are currently at 3% of the biomass -- that's the raw amount of fish -- of the ocean, compared to 1950. Effing THREE percent.

We are seeing the opening of the northeast *and* the northwest passage of the Arctic, for the first time in recorded history. The acidification of our oceans, leading to the collapse of the coral. Dead zones -- where nothing but clams live -- are abundant, because of fertilizer effluent. The collapse of tuna. The limits of our oil, our gas, our effing topsoil. The collapse of almost every main fish in the world.

We are not in the world you imagine. We've been sucking dry the flexibility of our natural systems. We'll be facing the bright clear line of sustainability, in system after system.

You want someone who would *select Sarah Palin* as *the next president*? You want someone who thinks the old ways of thinking are legitimate and sustainable?

We are hosed, folks, unless we have a radical rethink of survivability. It's not "green," or "environmental," or "stupid," it's about our own species' survival.

And while I think Obama won't go even 20% in the right direction, I'm certain that McCain won't go even 4% in the right direction.

I see Obama as the wrong choice, but the only choice, because the right choice isn't possible, in this political climate. We have to have *radical overhaul* -- and I'm afraid I'm certain it's not possible.

It's way beyond politics. It's about confronting that the "American way of life" is indeed unsustainable. Hell, the "Somalian way of life" may indeed be unsustainable.

We are confronting things that go so beyond Ayers, so beyond Olbermann, so beyond Obama, so beyond "left" or "right" or "conservative" or "liberal" that I can't even communicate it.

We can turn Road Warrior, or we can move in the direction of some kind of interactive, interconnected, interrelated world, where we *all* manage to work together to recast ourselves over the next few years, and have a dramatically restructured life.

Or, we can let things go, and the very rich will build their walled communities, and the rest of us will suffer and slowly die.

It's not simple, or binary, or easy. And the stuff I've been reading here will only drive it toward awfulness.

Why is the media shoving these two candidates down our throat what about one of the other candidates like Bob Barr or Chuck Baldwin. Most people don't even know there are four other choices for the President of the United States.
With Obama and McCain it doesn't matter who wins, they both serve the same intrest.
Wake up everyone these people do not have our best interest and welfare at heart.
We're all going to deserve what we get and it isn't going to be pretty...

Crashaxe

Wow -- I'm sure glad I stumbled on this! I was all set to vote for Obama but now I know that he's gonna kill 25 million people, I have to re-think! Thanks guys!

Ayers had best be very careful if wakes a sleeping dog,the bite
could be very nasty!!!

Berg vs. Obama

enough said!

Remember, no enemies to the left. I've been hoping that Obama's socialist tendencies might be moderated by pragmatic political concerns, but that optimism is fading.

"Do YOU believe an Obama presidency will result in the deaths of 25 MILLION Americans?"

It's possible, if Iran succeeds in developing nuclear weapons. I have zero confidence that President Obama will take any effective action to prevent Iran from developing those weapons.

"Raul the Puppett" writes:

How stupid you people are. (not surprising though...) I will try to put this in simple terms so that even a small town French hating religious freedom intolerant redneck racist six pack guzzling gun toting confederate flag waving Christian only deer killing race baiting bastards can understand. (Tee hee).

I can sense that a clear, rational, and coherent argument is coming. I always get that feeling whenever a debater begins his statement by screaming every insult he can think of without pausing for breath -- especially if every one of those insults is a hackneyed stereotype.

Ayers is a Professor at a major university. He teaches students. Do you know what that means?

In terms of Ayers's guilt for the crimes he committed, it means nothing at all. The blood is still on his hands.

Likely not since I sense most of you got "schooling" on the street.

Thus far, you have given us no reason to believe that you are smarter or better educated than we are. But go on; perhaps you actually have a point to make?

IN any event, if Ayers is ALLEGEDLY promoting hatred in class, or promoting the takeover of the government (allegedly..I dont believe it but you bastards do_)

Actually, no one has made any such claim.

. . . why havent you contacted the university he teaches at BEFORE Obama became an issue. Isnt this supposed to be an issue of NATIONAL SECURITY? TO alert all of an TERRORIST.

You appear to have missed the point completely. No one thinks Ayers is a threat at present. Neither are the elderly Nazi war criminals who have been hunted down in recent years, but being harmless today doesn't absolve them of guilt for the heinous crimes they committed in the past. And so it is with Ayers. He still carries the stain of his foul misdeeds, and the fact that Obama was happy to work closely with him for years is a revealing indication of Obama's character (or lack thereof).

But your inaction to an alleged threat proves how STUPID and pathetic you people are.

Since you're still flailing away at a straw man, you look rather silly yourself.

Oh, and how may of you bastards support religious nutbags who bomb abortion clinics?

I'll go out on a limb and say "None". But if you have evidence to the contrary, by all means present it. Otherwise you're just making a fool of yourself with such ridiculous and irrelevant accusations.

Oh, and by the way . . . there's only one T in "puppet". So perhaps you schooling isn't any better than ours. Your manners certainly are not.

When the Commies took over VietNam, the South's army was imprisoned, and more than 62,000 died from the harsh conditions. Jane Fonda never protested that, did she? That loony is still around, hoping for an anti-Christian Obama victory.

I spoke with a survivor of those camps in VietNam and he told me a unbelievable story. It was a 2 day trip for his wife to visit him, then they might arbitrarily turn her away.

Life is so cheap to a communist, they have no sympathy for anyone who does not believe as they do. Everyone lives in fear. I saw a tiny bit of it in the USSR, in Murmansk, during WWII. A few people we met openly told us that they'd end up in Siberia for being friendly to American seamen.

And I heard it from those who fled from behind the Iron Curtain. They risked their lives to cross borders, but we don't listen to them. We don't listen to the Cubans who risked their lives in small boats, rafts, and inner tubes.

Bill Ayers writes text books for the schools. Don't you wonder what is in those books that they're using to teach your children?

In China they executed an estimated 60 million landlords/capitalists. What is it we're missing about these peopole? This Obama/Ayers team is ready to install their own kind in Washington.

Note Acorn's red berets, red shirts, like Chavez in Venezuela. Think America, vote and pray.

Obama had $160 million to build his organization, and now they are his thugs. You'll see that on election day, believe me. They're already using their computers to assault the Republicans, tying up systems with "denial of service".

Howard,

This is because the dangers of communism (the slightly redder sister of Marxism, socialism and liberalism) are not taught in schools:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/why_obamas_communist_connectio.html

This is thanks to people like Ayers, who have very cleverly entrenched themselves in the educational system (and the media, for that matter) and now occupy positions that set the curriculum for our kids in school. Obama's ideological family tree also extends to John McKnight (a student of Communist Saul Alinsky). McKnight wrote Obama's letter of introduction to Harvard and developed Obama as a 'community organizer' ala Saul Alinsky. Saul Alinsky's son, L. David Alinsky, wrote this letter to editor of the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2008/08/31/son_sees_fathers_handiwork_in_convention/?s_campaign=8315

in which he praises Obama for learning his father's methods well. This, boys and girls, is chilling. As noted by Marcus Tullius Cicero in 42 BC:

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”

Michael,

venividivici: you're defending these appalling abusers, because they spent 17 hours a day taking advantage of those foolish enough to believe they could continue to have endlessly increasing housing values?

Once again, you miss the point. I defend people who work hard and within the confines of the law. It appears that 99% of the people on Wall Street fit this bill. Also again, as I pointed out, those who have lost the most are the very Wall Street types you would condemn. Who do you think bought all that overpriced Manhattan real estate? People relocating to Manhattan from Kansas?

Exactly: Human nature is constructed with pre-industrial, pre-capitalist evolutionary drivers. We need to do better. Today, we need more than raw, brutish, nasty, and short lives, in which the most selfish win.

Yes, because the countries where life expectancy is long and growing are the ones where industrialism and capitalism are least prevalent, so I can see how you would make the connection between industrialism, capitalism and "nasty, brutish and short" lives.

It's way beyond politics. It's about confronting that the "American way of life" is indeed unsustainable. Hell, the "Somalian way of life" may indeed be unsustainable.

Sorry, but even if this is true, I don't think that you and I would agree on "next steps". Personally, I don't plan on changing my lifestyle one iota just because 200 years down the road it might prove "unsustainable". Feel free to change yours, though, but you will find yourself in a world of hurt if you try to change mine.

If you think Obama is only "4%" of the total solution, my suggestion is that the remainder of your life will be marked by near-complete desperation and disappointment. Enjoy.

Who was President in 1982? ( Ronnie Regan )
Who was in attorney generals office in 1982?
So why was there no prosecution????
William French Smith, 74th Attorney General
Smith served as attorney general (President Reagan) from 23 Jan 1981 - 25 Feb 1985. He was born (26 Aug 1917) in Wilton, NH and attended the University of California, Los Angeles and Harvard Law School. A lieutenant in the US Naval Reserve, Smith was in private practice when appointed AG.

It sounds like your own party left a criminal on the street. Wasn't that the scare tactic used against Dukasus in 1988?

les

All we're talking about is having the top-bracket tax rate go back to what it was before W took office. The top rate goes from 34 to 39% and that makes us the USSR? BTW under St. Reagan the richest bracket's taxes were 1/3 higher. Guess that makes Reagan Kuschev. How you people never see that is beyond me.

"So why was there no prosecution????"

Love the extra question marks.

There was a prosecution. Would it be too much to expect you trolls to learn the basics about Ayers before you comment on the matter?

The elite have already stated that there will be riots after the election. Where have you been? I give it 6 months, after the riots and we'll have a huge bombing, then martial law instated. We are being primed for it right now with the economy and immigration/drug crimes. Better have your ammo and be ready to get your throat cut for not denouncing Christ.

It sounds like your own party left a criminal on the street. Wasn't that the scare tactic used against Dukasus in 1988?

les

Posted by Leslie Garner at October 24, 2008 08:13 AM

you need to read up on Ayers acquittal and on Ayers own comments following that acquittal. Not that you will, of course. Having facts does to lead one to conservative (also known as classically liberal) notions...

Also, that was Dukakis and the rap against him--brought up originally by Al Gore during the primaries-- was that the Dukakis administration had allowed a convicted murderer out on furlough, where he had attacked, robbed and raped in another state. A little different than the judicial acquittal of Ayers, at least to someone operating with even a partially functional cortex..

There have been a few responses, perhaps five percent both left and right, that are coherent and reasonable.

The rest just shows how the internet allows for the concentration of like-minded paranoids to feed each other's dementia. Are even half of you folks serious?

Man who freed Bill Ayers - John Mitchell Mug Shot
by dunkelberg | October 14, 2008 at 04:29 pm
http://media.nowpublic.net/images//77/5/77521c22c5cee5c77869002bc3b517f3.jpg

When federal prosecutor William C. Ibershof tried to put Weatherman William Ayers behind bars 35 years ago, it was his own boss - the Republican attorney general - who brought down the trial and let the accused domestic terrorist go free.

.

In 1973, Ibershof tried to put William Ayers, a founding member of the Weather Underground, in prison for an alleged conspiracy to bomb political targets. Ayers, now an education professor in Chicago, has become a fixture in John McCain's attempt to raise doubts about Barack Obama.

Source: latimes.com

Recently, Mr. Ibershof wrote a letter to the New York Times, saying, as the man who tried to prosecute Ayers, he was "amazed and outraged" that McCain-Palin, the GOP and others were trying to link Ayers with Obama.

However, his story goes beyond that letter.

In 1972, Mr. Ibershof says he was preparing to try Ayers, who was in hiding, and 14 other members of the Weather Underground organization for planning a campaign of domestic terror. Before the trial could begin, defense attorneys complained their offices had been broken into and searched. Then, Mr. Ibershof discovered the government had illegally bugged some of the defendants.

"I had a sizable room full of files with wiretaps that were not obtained by court order," he said.

The illegal tactics were ordered by Atty. Gen. John N. Mitchell and FBI assistant director W. Mark Felt, who was later unmasked as the Watergate scandal's "Deep Throat," Ibershof said. They were part of a plan, exposed during the Watergate hearings, to use "espionage techniques" to gather intelligence on domestic foes.

Source: latimes.com

Mr. Ibershof says he wanted to go on with the case. However, the judge ordered a hearing on the break ins and illegal claims. The government dropped the case, citing "national security".

Obama met Ayers when the former radical hosted an event to introduce Obama at the start of his political career. The two have served together on boards, but are not close.

"It seemed manifestly unfair to tar him with this association," Ibershof said in a telephone interview this weekend from his home in Mill Valley. "Sen. Obama had known Ayers during a period he was named Citizen of the Year in Chicago, not when he was committing those terrorist acts."

Source: latimes.com

McCain supporters have denounced Ayers as an "unrepentant terrorist." Ibershof said he believes people deserve a chance to redeem themselves, "a human reaction anyone would have."

Source: latimes.com

He adds the terrorist activities in question occurred when

"Mr. Obama, was, as he has noted, just a child."

Source: latimes.com
Leslie Garner

But come comrades, and how many did Bush kill.. far more than.. oh wait.. did you say 25 million... nevermind.

BUT! How old was Barack Obama in 1982 when this documentary came out? Oh wait, he was already 20 or 21..

Oh BUT! Maybe he was busy on his trip to Pakistan and he missed the documentary!

I mean seriously, how could the Obamessiah be expected to know, just because Ayers wore a ring made down of shot down American fighter planes, and just because he had documentaries about him, and because he had interviews on national television.

Come now Comrades, forget ApparentFact, and embrace HopeFact.

Consider, Ayers merely was a guy from the neighborhood. Sure, Obama MOVED TO the neighborhood because it was full of radicals , but what good committed Marxist would not? To hold it against him, well that is racist, as is all disagreement with a liberal, socialist, or Marxist.

Is that a crime? Nyet, I say.

I am scared, will someone please hold me ?

Thanks for posting this valuable video clip, You've garnered a mention at The Corner, so let's hope it gets sent far and wide - and fast!

Just as frightening is the support Ayers is receiving from academic sectors:
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/22/academics-sign-pro-ayers-petition/

"Among the people who signed the petition are No. 5, Columbia University professor of Arab studies Rashid Khalidi, and No. 814, former University of Colorado at Boulder professor Ward Churchill.

Churchill made headlines when he called the victims of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center "little Eichmanns" and compared them to Nazis in an essay. He was fired from his job in Boulder for plagiarism."

Good to see all the Obamaists out reading a conservative blog and adding their voices. It is a win-win situation: Either they will start to think about some things they should have been thinking about all along - or - they will show us just how screwed the other side can be and redouble our efforts to oppose them...

Obama chose specifically to spend his entire adult life connected to radicals. He began as a teen living in paradise with the books he chose to read and take as guides. He was helped along that way by his mother and at least one person his grandfather introduced him to. He continued on the path in college, probably very much so, which is why he refuses to talk about that time, and then he went into community organizing - another avenue along the path. His association with Ayers, Rev. Wright, and others point to the same thing: he is inspired by ideas of radical change in American society.

The reason the Obamaists trot out such weak defenses of all this is --- they share with him the same basic view of America that is the foundation for the push for radical "change" - that view being: That the US is THE problem in the world. America is a bad, bad, bad boy. Both to the poor nations of the world and to its own people - primarily its minorities and the poor it keeps down. The Obamaists defend anything about him because they want one of their own to stick it to the Man -- the white, male, neocon, wacked out Jesus freaks who have controlled the nation for too damn long....

The Dems could have went with a very liberal but somewhat pragmatic candidate like Hillary - but they want CHANGE --- radical change.

And it looks like we'll get some of it.

I think it will take less than 4 years for the bulk of Americans to catch on. America is still a centrist nation. If it had not been for the mass media acting as the Obama press corps, the people would not have come close to putting this man in the White House.

And if I were a member of the press, I'd keep a bag packed and in my trunk with an open ticket to anywhere outside the US ---- once the reality of what has happened sinks in and the people start looking for someone to blame once a Carter-style prolonged recession hits and our foreign policy makes us a laughing stock. The media will be a prime target for revenge....

William Ayer's agenda has remained unchanged. It's simply being carried out sans explosives.

Who was President in 1982? ( Ronnie Regan )
Who was in attorney generals office in 1982?
So why was there no prosecution????
William French Smith, 74th Attorney General
Smith served as attorney general (President Reagan) from 23 Jan 1981 - 25 Feb 1985. He was born (26 Aug 1917) in Wilton, NH and attended the University of California, Los Angeles and Harvard Law School. A lieutenant in the US Naval Reserve, Smith was in private practice when appointed AG.

It sounds like your own party left a criminal on the street. Wasn't that the scare tactic used against Dukasus in 1988?

les

Posted by: Leslie Garner at October 24, 2008 08:13 AM
****************
Actually it was Gore who was responsible for the
Willie Horton ad against Dukakis.

Nothing surprising about this. The whole point of revolutionism is to become God and remake the world, to be above conventional "good" and "evil". If one has the true godlike vision, then anything at all is justified to bring it about.

In The Last Tsar, Edvard Radzinsky mentions Tkachev and Nechaev, 19th century revolutionaries who discussed how many people would have to be killed, and concluded that the real question was how many to be left alive.

I would also note Eric Hobsbawm: a lifelong Communist who had no trouble ascending to the highest ranks of British academia as a historian, was made a Companion of Honor - and said recently that killing 20M people would be justified if it brought about the socialist paradise.

"Raul the Puppett" wrote:

Oh, and how may of you bastards support religious nutbags who bomb abortion clinics?

Natalie Solent pointed out today that nobody has bombed an abortion clinic for ten years. So Raul's accusation was more pathetic and silly than I realized.

CeeDee, if I recall properly, the case was dropped due to illegal information collected under Carter's watch, but feel free to correct me with evidence if I'm wrong.

Obama worships fabric with a glossy surface?

I had no idea.

Great site. My best to you all, as this is a sad, serious situation. If I were younger, I'd stay and fight it, but I'm not. I'm taking my family and leaving the land of my birth. I hate to do it, but have to, so my children can have a life elsewhere. The U.S. is going to be a terrible, terrible place very soon.

Thanks to an Irish Grandmother, I'm a dual citizen, and at the end of this school semester, 5 weeks after the biggest electoral mistake Americans will likely have ever made, we land at Shannon. The way things look now, I won't be back.

God bless and protect you all.

Your ideology or what you believe in are forged from the people you associate and converse with. Obama has chosen to associate himself with William Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn(domestic terrorists), Jeremiah Wright(preaching hate from the pulpit) and through writings, Saul Alinsky and Karl Marx(communists). The plans he has for this country are straight from the communist manifesto. You don't have to kill millions of people to be a burden on a countries citizens.

you can dig up dirt till kingdom come, and dig up bad stuff about every politician in history.

what's new? both have good points, both have bad.

i think it's the luck of the draw....and no, i do not under any circumstances believe 25 million people will be executed UNDER ANYONE'S WATCH!!

Hey Owlbear,
How many deaths can be attributed to Obama's policies in The new murder capitol of the USA, Chicago?
If he trusted his fellow citizens with their own defense many more would be alive to vote for him.

But guns in the hands of free men and women is an anathema to those " Revolutionary Freedom Fighters" That mentored Barry O and with whome he broke bread and shared graft and political pork.

"Rich, bible-black irony, indeed."

Dead on brother,tell it like it is.

We are seeing the canonization of the 60's radical
heroes (John Kerry,Jane Fonda,Ward Chruchill,Ayers and friends) using Obama as a device to gain the ultimate power to push their marxist,socialist ideology.We are supposed to excuse these idiots because they are "friends of academia".
Ahmadinejad is a friend of "academia" also,so I
think I will pass on supporting the leaders of hate and oppression.

If Obama is elected,there are going to be a lot of disappointed people wandering around,staring up at the sky,saying "where is all the hope and change".

We have some serious tough times coming up and the media is not going to be able to cover for their liberal heroes and their failed ideology.

bob,

How correct you are Comrade!

There are bad aspects with any leader. I mean one negative thing about most leaders in the US is that they have not had the advantage of actual Marxist mentors since their childhood; hard core communists with actual connections to Moscow and the Viet Cong.

At least Comrade Senator Obama has such advantages, so his policies are likely to be the most enlightened.

And of course, there will never be any leader who kills millions of his own people. Oh well except for Hitler, but he was not a Marxist, he was a Fascist.

Oh well and Stalin and Pol Pot the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and maybe a bunch more, but you know, some purges are positive The People.

For one thing, those purges made the the wait in the TP lines that much shorter in the Soviet Union.

I mean killing millions of people? That is crazy talk. Not in America.

I mean next people would expect us to beleive that a president like FDR would seize people's gold and get so much of it, they would have build a fortified vault in Kentucky to keep it safe. Nyet, not in America!

Or that Lincoln would order the arrest of Maryland legislators and then have the state government replaced by the Federal government, backed up by a military occupation force. Nyet, it could not happen in America!

So worry not America. Simply embrace CHANGE. Don't ask what change, let those more able decide what that change should be. Just VOTE for CHANGE!

"i do not under any circumstances believe 25 million people will be executed UNDER ANYONE'S WATCH!!"

The veneer of civil society is gossamer thin.